Dick_Pole

Usually I don't like rain outs because of the strain it puts on the team late in the season when they have to be made up...but please PLEASE let the weather be just as s***** tomorrow. We cannot have those s*** starters for the Jays in otherwise two very winnable games. I'd rather take my chances with make-up games in September with a tired squad chasing a playoff berth if we are so lucky to be in such a position with this team by then.

Relevant:

I can't speak for Trumbo and his propensity to stand around for 3-4 hours of an 8 hour work day whistling at women that walk by if he wasn't already a MLB player, but when I read that the first thing that popped into my mind is that Bautista was always seen as a bit of a diva even before he was good and that he had a higher than middle class upbringing in the DR. Not racism towards a light-skinned Latino who is fluent in English.

I hope Zaun has never seen the celebration at a no-hitter before. Which nowadays happens almost as much as a complete game.

I'm ok with that as long as she was a Hillary supporter.

Missed the game but I saw the box score. The bunch of runs late and that Travis, Goins and Pillar all hit home runs. My first thought was that they were back-to-back-to-back. It turns out that wasn't the case but imagine if it was. Haha, that pitcher might as well just give up baseball.

The only way this ever happens within the next three decades is if Rogers sells the Dome property to some developers for a quadrillion dollars (after buying the thing for $25 million) and uses part of the profits to build a new stadium (and better not be one penny of taxpayer funds). Outside of that, this thing is going to stand there until it is at least 50 years old and there's a legit reason to replace it.

It's great. Cities are finally starting to catch on to the financial s***-show the Olympics are and the list of candidates to host the games get shorter as time goes on. I'm on board with the casino idea though.

Maybe we have different definitions of what "strip it down" means but in the context if this 50 or 81 thread I take it to mean trade every player of any value off the roster, fill it with scrubs and purposely tank for a #1 pick. I'm all for trading Donaldson, Estrada and Happ if the team is out of it and that's what Shapiro and Atkins feel is right come July. But the goal should still be to get to 81 wins rather than 50 if that's what ends up happening. Trading those guys would net some MLB-ready prospects. The team has an owner which has had the willingness and the ability to provide a payroll in the top half to top third in the league. There are only two unmovable contracts on this team which means the Jays have a ton of payroll flexibility going into a rich free agent crop in 2018. And the Jays have a front office that users here have all raved about its analytical ability and has demonstrated an ability for creative moves like the Liriano deal and value moves like the Pearce, Happ and Estrada signings. There is NO reason to expect or demand a tank, full-on rebuild or whatever you want to call it. What I do expect are shrewd trades, better player development and smart free agent signings to fill out the holes on the roster that at least carry the team to a respectable finishes - 75-85 wins over the next two or three seasons - until the prospects catch up. That's assuming 2017 turns into a complete wash and I'm not nearly ready to make that call yet. As far as Stroman being the only first round player of note coming out of the Jays system in the last decade...well that should be an indictment of the Jays drafting and player development rather than drafting position, shouldn't it? When was the last time the Yankees had a top 5 pick? Or the Cardinals?

As I predicted. As far as the last line, this is very, very egregious. I DO have faith in this group to put the best team on the field at all times given the circumstances. Because that is the job they are paid very well to do. There is no need for any team to ever have to strip it down to rebuild. The ones that do are doing so because of laziness and incompetence. The Philadelphia 76ers route and how has that gone for them?

Obviously 81. I will always pick the higher number. The loser mentality wins again. Because the Astros and Nationals shamed their franchises with multiple 100+ losing seasons and are kinda ok now, that means the Jays should too right? No. How about competent drafting, player development and roster management where the team is competitive EVERY year?

Good. One of the most disgraceful acts of poor sportsmanship and cowardice I've ever seen. He got only 10 games when the other three major leagues would have issued at least a year ban for that. The NHL has slowly been trying to clean up it's act but is still far behind the standards of the others.

Jays should do what the Orioles are doing. Just wing it with three healthy starting pitchers. Off-days and the Good Lord will provide the rest.

Bautista, Donaldson, EE. The Jays have gotten more than their fair share of top-end sluggers at below market cost in terms of salary and/or players traded over the past few years. A good thing too because they've been pathetic on the drafting and player development of those types of players. If you constantly point out every missed opportunity you will be one unhappy fan. Any team that picks up more than 3.33% of the bargains out there is doing better than average. If you really want to harp on something you're better off wondering why Travis Snider and David Cooper aren't the #3 and #4 guys in this lineup right now.

I think my comment was the one that opened up the whole rat's nest about building around Donaldson. I just used that as a comparison where I would rather build around his window as the Jays have done when he first landed on their doorstep rather than planning to build around an 18 year old player and hope he blossoms 3 years from now. Whether the Jays' drafting, trading and player development decisions result in a young crop of MLB-ready players by 2019 is a different argument than the one I was responding to.

Hell of a couple of nights for the Canadian teams. Now they are all leading their series 2-1 except for the chumps playing right now. About as good as we could have expected to this point when they all lost their first game.

Yes, because building a team around the assumption that one 18 year old is going to be a mega-star in 3-4 years is solid reasoning. I'd rather build around the window of Josh Donaldson because at least you know what you got. AA and Shapiro to this point generally had the right mindset. It's just that it's looking less likely that they would be as successful as we all first hoped.

I generally agree with your sentiment, but this post is lame. If Shapiro was THAT convinced that Travis and Bautista would have sucked he would have traded the former for other useful players and not signed the latter. Plus all of this board's favourite whipping boys Smoak, Carrera and Goins are all fully on the shoulders of the new regime for having stuck it on this roster this long. Martin and Tulowitzki are all AA's doing, but no new front office in baseball comes into a job with a completely clean slate. You can blame the lack of MLB-ready prospects on AA, and you can give full credit to the new regime for supplementing Sanchez and Stroman with good contracts to fill out one of the best 1-5 starting staffs in the league. But the lineup is all on Shapiro and Atkins.

http://www.fangraphs.com/coolstandings.aspx 17.8% chance according to Fangraphs. It was about as low as this mid-May last season when the team was in the dumps. Of course being this low in mid-April is a hell of a lot tougher to do than it is in mid-May.

I love these justifications to throw away the season because no team in baseball has ever come back from 2-10 to win something in 140+ years. For most of baseball's existence only one team each league made the playoffs, then only 2. It's been 4+ for the past 22 years and 5 for the past 5. It's not a fair comparison. Even if this wasn't the case, the computer simulations estimate an 18% chance that the Jays make the playoffs even after this bad start. That's still about as good or better than a dozen other teams. Past bad starts which have absolutely no cause-and-effect relationship to the Jays' situation right now be damned. It is WAY too early to write off the season.

A positive today, I liked Tulo's PA's after the game was already out of reach. Maybe he can be the next lead off hitter out of these slim pickings. As far as people harping on Gibbons on putting Pillar and Carrera #1 and #2...they pulled their weight today. They have been meeting their low expectations at the plate so far this year. As opposed to half of the hitters on this team who only wish they could be as "good" as these two scrubs right now. Putting Pillar and Carrera #1 and #2 in game 12 doesn't mean Gibbons is going to do it in game 162...or game 13 for that matter. When the offense is struggling this badly it couldn't hurt to at least try something of the many bad possible choices out there. Well like I said hopefully Tulowitzki's day is something to build on and he can take over at the top of the order. I dunno...I haven't seen every inning of every game so far this year but every time I see Tulo he seems to have good PA. The stats don't really reflect it though.

While I'm still trying to remain level-headed about this, what's worrisome about the Jays is that this is pretty much how last September went for the team. Absolutely brutal offense and heavy reliance on the starting pitching to come through for any chance to win. A quick burst of offense in the ALDS made us forget about all that and then Cleveland's BP really exposed the Jays hitters. What's the average output over the last 50 games including the post-season? Something like 3 runs?

Carrera #1. Pillar #2. Done.

Pillar has a .302 OBP and 4 Ks in 43 PA. In that context who else would you have lead off? His RC+ sucks because he's been bashing singles but if you want some guy who has had a half-decent chance to get on with some speed for Morales to drive in he's the top candidate right now until the rest of the line-up finds its way.

Jays are 1-0 with him hitting #2. 1-9 when he's not. Gibbons is just going with what works.