Dick_Pole

Considering the 2-11 start when the team was at full strength and the 9-9 performance since then, the s*** season is not continuing to be that s***. The scrubs have picked up the slack and the really useless scrubs will be jettisoned from the team once the good players are back.

I know I was stepping on my toes using this example. But my point was that 20 years later they are still going strong after Duncan is retired and without a top pick in recent memory. The Spurs may have drafted him, but the coaches also successfully created an offense around him and the FO created an environment which he wanted to stay in for nearly two decades. No Vince Carter traded for scrubs type of deals. The Cavs have been winners with LeBron James and absolute horseshit without him. They got extensively lucky to have the first round pick at the right time and that this star player happened to be born a few miles down the road so he eventually returned. There is a pretty clear difference between the Cavs and the Spurs. Now maybe to some people this wouldn't make a difference. A championship team is a championship team. To me, it does make a difference. Tanking is a cheap and lazy way to run a sports team in any league. If someone gives me a choice that the Jays finish 71-91 or 81-81 this year, I will say 81-81 hands down. To someone who says to me "yeah but if they tank at 71-91, the front office will be finally able to re-build/re-tool" My answer to this is: "Shapiro should be smart enough to make the right call for the team whether it is 43-43 or 38-48 come the all-star break". My enjoyment as a fan comes from watching my team win as many baseball games as possible, regardless of the situation it is in. If the team loses games, I'm not going to do mental gymnastics where the team "banks" wins in the future because the higher draft pick may result in a slightly better player on the roster in 2020. The front office should be competent enough to field a talented team with that many years to draft and develop players and a team salary that will be in the top half of the league.

This isn't even the case either. When was the last time the Spurs had a top draft pick? Yes they got lucky in that David Robinson decided to get injured the same year that Tim Duncan was available in the draft. They have since parlayed that luck into 50+ win seasons for as long as the Raptors have been around.

Now I'm beginning to remember why you were run off here in the first place. No one would ever argue that high draft picks aren't worth more than lower ones. That's ridiculous. The argument is if those high draft picks are worth throwing away a year and embarrassing the franchise. The other argument is that player development, good trades and smart drafting trumps having high draft picks a lot of the time.

Didn't stop the Jays from winning the World Series in 1992 and 1993. But of course the loser mentality prevails. Let's cheer for our team to lose and embarrass the franchise with a 100 loss season for a very, very, very slight advantage in the draft. When success is far more dependent on the team developing the prospects it has. The Yankees haven't lost 100 games in over 100 years and have 27 World Series to show for it since then. Meanwhile the Phillies have oodles and oodles of losing seasons under their belt and have two World Series to show for it.

No. What the 76ers did was embarrassing and has yet to be proven effective, I would never want this team to do that and as I stated previously good luck when the Nets and Knicks have those positions locked up and bottom feeders of the Western Conference are fodder for the best teams.

I agree that he is untradeable or as I tried to say the best case scenario would be a lateral move. I think the best chance the Raptors have of making any noise is unloading JV and seeing what the kid can do. Either he breaks out and the team can try to build an offense around him or he doesn't and the Raptors remain status quo as a team that can't penetrate.

The Raptors wouldn't be in a very good position for a tank. The Nets and Knicks will wander the desert for at least three years and that's 10% of the Raptors schedule. And I'm not sold on the 76ers either. Good luck tanking under those circumstances. A "tank" would result in a lackluster 30 win season and a 10th overall pick.

I understand this, but what moves do you propose that would get the Raptors to the next level in the next 4 years? Trade Derozan and then what? Brainwash Curry with highlights of his dad and how great it was here and hope he signs here? Pump Poeltl full of HGH to make him add 75 pounds and turn him into the next Shaq? Go all Tonya Harding on LeBron during the off-season? Hope you score 4 straight sleeper picks in the 20-range in the draft? Derozan is a guy who is at least good enough to keep the team warm - 40-50 win seasons with an occasional playoff round win - over the next 4 years until there is opportunity to make the next big move. Right now I just don't see how this team can improve from the position it is in now. And I also don't think taking a big step back will result in the team being in an advantaged position four years from now when opportunity does call.

Silver lining: The Jays are a .500 club since they've had this pathetic line-up and patchwork rotation. Not exactly with an easy schedule either. Most of the games have been on the road. Once the useful players come back this team might actually be pretty good.

If by ugly you mean 4 more playoff appearances and averaging 50-win seasons like it has been the past 4 years, I'll take that version of ugly any time. You guys don't know what ugly is. Triano's Raptors now THAT was ugly. There is non-stop trashing of this crew and coach yet this is the team that brought 4 of the top 5 seasons this franchise has ever had. The Raptors can't hang with the Cavs? Neither can 25 other teams. At least the Raptors are no longer in the same class as the all-time embarrassments of this league - Wolves, Clippers and Nets - thanks to the last 4 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah the loser mentality of blowing it all up and starting from scratch. Worked really well the last time the Raptors tried that with Bargnani and it's worked just amazing for 76ers and Timberwolves lately. The team is in a pretty good spot as it is. And firing Casey and trading Derozan aren't going to be the moves that will push this team to the Warriors level. So we might as well enjoy what we have until LeBron finally breaks down and the East becomes up for grabs.

Shouldn't you be busy doing some last minute Twitter campaigning for Le Pen?

Seven pages for a GDT. That's got to be some kind of record low. Happened on a Saturday on a cold, rainy day in Toronto too.

I hope you're counting 2017 as one of those years.

Someone on this board would disagree with Pillar's statement as the reason for the hot start.

Spanky is drunk or trolling. 1989 was the well known 12-24 start year. Jays had good Aprils in both 1992 and 1993.

Kind of making up for letting Jeremy Jeffress slip through the cracks.

This rhetoric again. If the team is s*** for 10 years that means it was led by a completely incompetent front office. Not because of a retool that didn't take place a few years prior. As far Morales is concerned his $11M in the final year of a contract in 2019 should be the least of our concerns. Morales can be easily jettisoned if need be. Similar to how San Diego dumped Upton to the Jays.

Wow good thing the Jays don't have these problems to deal with. Your post made me feel so much better about the state of the team I cheer for.

Shades of Al Lieter. Good to see this team never learns lol

50 win thread...remember? That's the only way the Jays get it that low. I guess we need some consistent board definitions on what re-tool versus tear down versus something in between means.

What exactly do you expect to re-tool in a scenario that involves keeping Donaldson? I see Happ, Estrada and Liriano as the only players that make sense to trade in this situation that would get anything notable in return and I wouldn't expect the return to be that much. Any re-tool IMO includes the trade of Donaldson. Total tear down means trading him, and doing as much of this as possible: trading all five starting pitchers, Osuna, Pillar, maybe even Travis and dump Tulo and Martin hoping someone else picks up the tab.

Even though I side with stay the course, some of the reasons in that article were pretty lame. Momentum is overrated and the fact that there are two winter time teams which at most will play into June in a city with a very diverse range of opinions and tastes in its population means nothing. Toronto is big enough to handle three successful sports franchises of the four major leagues.

I am also happy that I have voted opposite Jim. This question is much better asked two months from now. There is little to no benefit in trading Donaldson, Happ et al. now versus July. If the Jays still suck or turn it around by then the FO will have much more information to choose their direction. Same thing with every other team. A contender that is one step away that needs an extra starter or a big bat that can play a premium defensive position will pay just as much in July as now. Particularly if there's a bidding war for such players.

Smoak breaking out. This year is his year. 50 HR book it. His contract will look like a genius signing by the FO in a few months!