jaysblue

Their bullpen was a middle of the pack bullpen. They have solid pieces sure and Romano did an awesome job this season. I know it's only one game, but they couldn't even secure an 8-1 lead from the 6th inning on in the most important game of the season. Upgrades need to be made and they need to target more high K arms. You can't expect to bring back the same bullpen with no additions at all, especially after the bullpen was one of the reasons why they missed the Postseason by one game in 2021 and why they aren't playing baseball tomorrow in Houston!

I'm down for that Jay. Do you want Duran back or not?

This bullpen wasn't good enough for a deep Postseason run. Those are the facts.

Most valuable players this season? Manoah, Gausman, Romano, Kirk Most improved player? Stripling Biggest dissappoint of the season? Berrios How do you rate the front office? Shapiro: A - he has a great vision for this organization and has done an amazing job in improving the baseball experience at the Rogers Centre with the building improvements and renovations over the years. On the business and marketing side of things, I think he's been a genius. You're not going to find a better President and baseball mind leading this organization. Atkins: C - I was impressed by him making some big additions during the offseason such as Gausman and trading for Chapman. Pretty much he replaced Ray and Semien and did even better which was tough to do. So kudos to him for that! However he ignored other parts of the roster such as the bullpen and roster depth, which we saw impact the team this season and was a reason why they couldn't even win on Saturday. It's frustrating because this team does have a solid young core and the window is now. He pretty much wasted 2021 and 2022 in my opinion by cheapening out and not addressing other areas on this roster that needed to be addressed for this team to take the "next level". How do you rate the Coaching Staff? John Schneider: I think Schneider did a fantastic job taking over for Montoyo though his managing decisions in the most critical game of the Jays season were frustrating. I'm sure he'll learn from his mistakes, though I question his decision making in a big game after what we witnessed on Saturday. Whether it was him making the calls or the FO, it was one of the worst managed games I've ever witnessed since watching this team. If there is a more exeperienced manager available than sure, but I'm ok with Schneider working with this team for another year and having a full ST under his belt as the main guy. Pete Walker: I don't really have an issue with him. It wasn't his fault Berrios sucked this season. As well, with Kikuchi, he could only do so much. As for the bullpen, it's not like he could transform all of those arms to 10-12 K/9 guys. I don't think Walker is a Pitching God like he was made out to be, but also don't think he's bad. He deserves to stick around. Martinez: the hitting took a step back this season. I would like to see him work with Guerrero in elevating the ball more rather than hitting the ball into the ground. We never saw Guerrero make any adjustments in the second half and that worries me about Martinez, but I guess one more year won't hurt. GAPS Analysis. What were we missing the most this year? : High K bullpen arms; a solid reliable 4th outfielder who could field and also hit. I know some people hate this but I think this team needs another left-handed bat in the lineup. Rotation depth, though they got by since Gausman and Manoah along with Stripling stayed healthy. Otherwise this team would have been in trouble. Overall team culture: they're still a very young and immature group IMO. I think they have great chemistry, but they talk more with their mouths more than focusing on what they do on the field. Like Vladdy saying "this is my house" or Manoah talking about pressure, or them wearing a damn home run jacket everytime some hits a HR. They need to let their play on the field do the talking. They seem like a bunch of spoiled kids who have no discipline. This team needs a tough manager, someone who tolerates no BS. Having a beta type manager won't work with this group IMO.

I would probably lean towards one of Kirk or Jansen, depending on what they could bring back. Keep Moreno since he'll be under club control for 6 more seasons. I don't think you'll be able to package Moreno with anyone else to bring in an elite arm or player in return.

Brought back Andrew Wiggins.

I will pick

I like Joc Pederson against RHP, though not as an everyday player. You need a solid platoon partner with him or else he'll be exposed playing everyday. If the Blue Jays could find a Reed Johnson type player, they would make a nice platoon in LF/DH.

Gausman didn't fail the Jays in the playoffs, Schneider did.

Yeah it's a good benchmark, though Strider is still a better arm moving forward IMO. Some risks signing Manoah long term. He's been solid but I think you can expect some regression moving forward: 4.17 xFIP in 2021 and 3.98 xFIP in 2022. He's still a solid starter but don't think we'll see him with an ERA in the low 2's again. I don't think he's an ace and I hope the Jays don't pay him like one. Not crazy about locking him up long term right now.

Yeah I doubt the Jays are targeting him and doubt deGrom would come here as well. Carlos Rodon is more likely. Similar to Kevin Gausman last offseason. If you can sign Carlos Rodon to Kevin Gausman type money, definitely think he's worth it!

Yeah I don't see any big changes like the Jays trading Vladdy, Bo or Kirk etc. Nor should there be. I want to give Vlad and Bo another chance in 2023 to see if they recapture some of their 2021 form. Not in a rush to lock them up for an extension, there is still time. I do think this team needs to add a competent 4th outfielder who you can rely on giving 400-500ABs to and who could play sound defense at every OF position. The Jays can't be wasting ABs on players like Tapia or Zimmer over an extended period. In my opinion, I still would try to sign a starting CF and move Springer to a corner. Nimmo would be a nice signing (CF, left-handed bat, gets on-base). Another target who could be a nice buy low is Ramón Laureano from Oakland. I agree another top starter would be ideal. Maybe Carlos Rodon if you can open up the bank and sign him to a similar contract as Kevin Gausman (probably Rodon will cost more though). Otherwise, target another middle of the rotation starter and there are plenty FAs available - Corey Kluber, Andrew Heaney, Kyle Gibson, Sean Manaea - wouldn't require many years or a high AAV. I don't have an issue with having White and Kikuchi battle for the No. 5 slot, but I would feel more comfortable if they opened the season as the No. 6 and 7 guys for depth purposes. The Jays starting rotation even this season was playing with thin ice in terms of depth - they're lucky Gausman and Manoah stayed healthy. Imagine losing one of those guys for an extended period of time this season, this team likely doesn't even play in the Wildcard. Would like to see Atkins build up depth in the rotation if he could. As for the bullpen, another elite BP arm needs to be added to complement some of the solid pieces they have. They need arms with higher K rates. Yes you can roll the dice on Pearson, Merryweather and heck even transition Kikuchi and see how he is. You might get lucky with one of those guys, though don't go into 2023 expecting all three or one of those guys will pan out. They're more solid lottery tickets/arms you can get lucky on. Again with this core they have in place and the 2023 window likely being their last best window (Teo and Chapman both under contract one more season), I don't think you play Conservative with the bullpen or try to cheaply address it like they have the past two years. Building depth is important because what happens if the Jays lose Romano for an extended period of time? Jays can't be playing with thin ice again as they did in 2022. If they don't sign Edwin Diaz, I'm sure Jansen or Kimbrel can be signed on a 1 year contract. If the Jays don't want to spend that type of money, they can explore the trade market or some other solid high K relievers available via free agency who likely won't break the bank. I think Matt Moore could be a great target (1.3 WAR). As a low risk/high reward signing - Shelby Miller could be a viable target.

If you were given a blank check from Rogers to sign one of those two starters, which one would it be?

I would hope Rogers gives them the green light to make another big FA signing similar to Gausman last offseason. Other players will become more expensive through ARB and as well they'll need some money to sign other FAs to patch up the bullpen and the rest of the roster. Conforto can be a good value signing for one-year. Could be similar to how they signed Semien for the 2021 season. Rogers Centre would be a perfect place for Conforto to build up his value again and he'll definitely be a nice addition to this Jays lineup and on the field. Nimmo will cost more, though open to him as well if the funds are available. Gurriel is only making 5 million next season, so his contract is very favorable. I'm all for signing Edwin Diaz. Some other intriguing value BP arms as well like Chad Green, Aroldis Chapman, Zack Britton. I wonder if Craig Kimbrel or Kenley Jansen would sign a one-year contract...wouldn't be bad for either since it's only one year. Also, would look at Matt Moore and heck even Shelby Miller (who looks like he might have turned the corner as a reliever now). I'm alright with the Blue Jays resigning Stripling if they miss out on a bigger name FA starter. Though some more depth would be nice. Take a look at Kyle Gibson, Corey Kluber, Andrew Heaney or even a James Paxton/Matthew Boyd as bounceback candidates. Have Kikuchi, White, and Ricky Tiedemann as your depth SP options to open the season.

Pretty much spot on from Simmons. https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/simmons-jays-collapse-was-complete-from-players-to-manager-to-management

You just admitted the Blue Jays have a middle of the pack bullpen, and that was one of the issues why this team never took it to the "next level" and a reason why they lost on Saturday. They can't go deep into a Postseason with a "middle of the pack" bullpen! They need to make some upgrades. Doesn't mean they need to spend a majority of their payroll on the bullpen, though this front office could do a better job at targeting and assessing talent when it comes to the bullpen. It's not just one game - this was an issue all season and a reason why the team missed the Postseason by only ONE game in 2021. So stop calling me a drama queen. I agree with everything else you said. They need to shore up their outfield defense and ideally moving Bo to second base would be great, though doubt it happens. Another starter is important since Stripling is a FA, and you can't rely on Kikuchi. As much as I like Mitch White, prefer seeing him as a No. 6 starter for depth purposes, though having him open as the No. 5 starter isn't the end of the world. Ideally, targeting another No. 1-2 starter would be perfect, though a middle of the rotation starter would be fine.

You can't just stand pat and come back with the exact same roster as next season and expect to be World Series contenders without spending some money via free agency or acquiring some players with salary through trade. There are trade routes for the Blue Jays to be creative. They can trade from their catching depth, move perhaps Gurriel or Hernandez if they wanted to. I think you need to add to this core in 2023 rather than just keep the status quo. Ryu and Kikuchi definitely are tying up some payroll in 2023 and are pretty much dead weight, but what can you do? 2023 will be a crucial season for Atkins and company. They can't keep the status quo, so they'll have to spend some money obviously. Hopefully Rogers increases the payroll again and gives Atkins the green light to go out to sign a big piece again like he did with Gausman last offseason. As well, hope they can find some bargains on free agency like some bounceback candidates or be creative on the trade front to improve this team.

Didn't the bullpen just blow an 8-1 lead in a crucial Game 2 of the Wildcard? Yes or no? So please, enough with being an apologist and face the reality that this bullpen wasn't good enough from day one! I said the Bass and Pop trades were decent even back at the deadline. Were they enough to take this team to the next level? No they weren't. Pop wasn't even used much in critical situations and Bass did an awful job yesterday in the 8th. So what impact did both really have? As for your offseason priorities, I'll update them: 1. This team should look to add another front of the rotation starter if they want to make a deep run at a World Series. Carlos Rodon or heck even Jacob deGrom would be fantastic but that's aiming real high. 2. I've said this numerous times this team needs to add some better depth and outfield is the perfect place. They need a solid 4th outfielder who they can also DH the odd time since Springer is injury prone. As for Gurriel, sure I'm open to trading him. I would look at adding a defensive minded CF (one that is left-handed would be preferable but a RHB would be fine) and move Springer to RF and have Hernandez in LF. 3. Agreed, though I doubt this organization has the guts to tell him he needs to move to 2B. You'll get a disgruntled player who likely won't consider resigning an extension here. 4. They need an elite BP piece. This bullpen couldn't even hold a 8-1 lead against the Mariners. Imagine holding a 2-1 lead against a better team in the Postseason. Sign or trade for an elite BP piece to complement with Romano. Take a gamble on some low risk/high upside and high K relievers or past failed starters. Also, hope you get lucky with Merryweather and move Pearson to the bullpen during Spring Training.

Yeah I think ideally Atkins gets one more shot and I think he deserves one more chance in 2023 all things considered. He has made some solid big signings/trades as I said previously like with Gausman, Chapman, Springer, Berrios, Ray, and Semien to complement the young pieces on this roster over the last several years. Like you said about roster depth: his front office has done a very poor job at addressing roster depth the past two years and that has shown in 2021 and 2022. It's like he has ignored the rest of the roster. Over 162 game season, he's playing with thin ice. Give the rotation as an example: if Gausman or Manoah went down on the IL and missed a month or more, this team doesn't win a Wildcard spot. If the bullpen lost Romano, they likely don't win a Wildcard spot. We saw with the lineup this season when Springer, Hernandez and Lourdes all hit the IL at certain points, they were replaced by Tapia and Zimmer, which hurt the team more than anything when they were played too much. I hope he better prepares the Jays over 162 games next season and puts a roster in place that can go deep into the Postseason.

Should Tapia even be on this roster after his awful season? He served no purpose other than hurt the Jays more in the 4-5 innings he played in Game 2.

Drama Queen? The bullpen needs some upgrades, those are the facts. Never said they need to completely replace everyone or spend a majority of their payroll on one. They have some nice pieces down there but they need to be complemented with another one or two elite arms. This bullpen wasn't good enough to take this team deep into the Postseason. It wasn't even good enough to close a 8-1 game from the 6th inning onwards. Was it completely the bullpens fault the Jays lost yesterday? No. I place majority of the blame on the in game decisions Schneider made. Then there is Tapia, then some boneheaded defensive plays, and yeah they all contributed to one of the greatest collapses in baseball Postseason history! There is no sugar coating it. The Blue Jays should have been playing Game 3 this afternoon.

Grant77 haha Jonn even admitted as well.

This team isn't one of the best teams built in baseball or else they would still be playing, c'mon Kev! They didn't address a weakness on this team for two straight years and we saw that on full display yesterday how this bullpen couldn't even close out a 8-1 lead. Inexcusable for a team with World Series aspirations at the beginning of the season. Also, there are questions marks surrounding some of their main core pieces. I stated I'm for giving Vladdy, Bo and Berrios a mulligan on this season and hope in 2023 they can show some of their 2021 form. Though if you think they come back as the same team without some major improvements to the bullpen, bench and adding another SP, you're nuts.

Brownie19 haha Yeah I stated the acquisitions at the deadline were solid and decent moves, though they weren't moves to take the team to the next level.

Of course the personalities on Sportsnet will be soft on this team. They need to sell the Jays as a potential World Series contender and build up hype again for next season. That's why I don't take any of their analysis seriously.