jaysblue

Did they really open up a short contention window? 2013 and 2014 didn't work out obviously but that's when AA decided to add to the roster. Who knows maybe in 2014 they add more at the trade deadline if they had the expanded WC format as they do now. You can count 2014 as a window if that's the case. No different than one of Atkins teams making the third WC spot or missing out by the Postseason by one game in 2021. As well, in 2015 and 2016 they had their window where they were legit World Series contenders. Who knows in 2017 if AA was still around what other moves he would have made to upgrade the roster. Atkins and Co. botched the EE negotiations that offseason and instead rushed to sign Morales which was a mistake. As well, once the 2017 season was a lost year and it became evident the window was probably closing, Atkins never traded Donaldson at the right time which definitely set the Jays back a bit in terms of adding to the farm system. Even under Atkins, the Jays have a short contention window. What happens to this team after 2025 when Bo leaves as a FA or Vladdy and many other core pieces? Do the Jays have the farm system to replace those guys?

Lmao why are you comparing AA with Ruben Amaro?

AA's teams came closer to a World Series than Atkins teams have during a period where it was tougher to make the Postseason. He put together a team in 2015 that actually looked like a World Series contender. AA made mistakes along the way. For sure he wasn't perfect here. Some of his trades didn't pan out, but it's not like the organization lost sleep after that huge Marlins trade before the 2013 season. Also, at the time many FAs didn't want to sign here, so the trading route was a way for the Jays to add big names. Where is the organizational depth of the Jays now by the way?

2 if you count 2016 since it was mostly AA's core in place. 2 trips to the ALCS, where the Jays were within striking distance of reaching the World Series for the first time since 1993. As well, making the Postseason in the old WC format which was more difficult than now. Maybe in 2014, the Jays add more at the deadline if it was the same WC format currently. AA brought the Jays closer to a World Series in a shorter time period more than Atkins has done in a longer period here. AA brought excitement back to Toronto with their Postseason runs, and that was integral after years of missing the Postseason. You could argue if it wasn't for AA, Blue Jays baseball wouldn't be as popular as it is today across the country! Atkins still has this season, 2024 and 2025, so he still has a window, though so far none of his teams have won a Postseason series (again not including the 2016 season), let alone a Postseason game.

108 K's in 56.1 innings. Crazy! Has a chance to reach 150 K's.

Yeah Cimber was definitely solid in 2021 and 2022 for us. Nothing against him at all. Just wasn't the type of high leverage arm this team needed at the time. Cimber is a nice 6th/7th inning guy, nothing more. Hand never worked out unfortunately. There were some warning signs of decline before the Jays acquired him, but yeah. That 2021 team was really good and it's a shame they never were able to play in the Postseason. Really think they could have done some damage.

Cimber wasn't an elite BP arm with huge K rates which is what they needed. He was and still is just a middle reliever. He's a nice piece, but nothing game changing. Also forgot to mention Brad Hand who cost the Jays how many games?

The 2021 team was probably the best window/opportunity to go on a deep run in the Postseason. Atkins failed to address the bullpen at the trade deadline, and it cost them by missing out by one game. Not sure if we'll see a better team in 2024 and 2025.

Lynn was pretty awful with the White Sox - 6.47 ERA and 5.21 FIP. Yes his K rate was solid but he wasn't an elite arm given the season he had to date. Dodgers just targeted him for innings and depth purposes. A team with a huge payroll can afford that luxury. You're only saying that now since Lynn has been lights out since joining the Dodgers. Keep in mind, Lynn's first three starts with the Dodgers were against Oakland, San Diego and Colorado. Far from elite lineups. Flaherty, who yeah I think is overrated, was a decent pickup for them - 1.8 fWAR, 9.10 K/9 and 4.12 FIP. So far with the Orioles, he's posted a 3.27 ERA and has 16 K's in 11 innings. Against two pretty good teams as well - the Blue Jays and the Astros. Astros could have used a Verlander more than anything.

He's given them innings - 145 IPs to date - which is valuable. He's ranked 6th in all of baseball, just behind Cole, Alcantara, Nola, Gallen and Webb. From looking at his game logs, when he's on he usually goes 6 or 7 innings, giving up 1 or 2 ER. When he has a off day, he still does give them 4-5 innings maybe giving up 4-5 ERs. Really his last start where he gave up 9 ER was his only blowup this season. 13 quality starts (hate using it as a stat) but he's up there in that category, tied with Castillo, Strider, Elder, Gilbert, and ahead of guys like Ohtani and Snell lol. Pretty much he's been a durable arm for them and eating up innings for them. He's been worth the $10M contract they signed him for.

Yeah I don't understand how his fWAR can be so high given his other numbers. His FIP is below 4 though. He has been durable and has given them 145 innings, which is 6th best in all of baseball. From looking at his game logs, he usually goes 6-7 innings on a good day, or he'll give up 4-5 ER in 4 to 5 innings. He's pretty much like Jekyll and Hyde. Otherwise his last start where he gave up 9 ER was really his only blowup this season. For the most part of his career, Gibson has been a 2-3 WAR pitcher.

I understand that. I'm not a Gibson fan either, but regardless they have got good value out of him to date and he hasn't been that bad as people on this board make him out to be. Sure he could implode as we saw with his last start and things could get ugly. Agree, Baltimore should have added a front line starter but who really was available outside of Verlander or Scherzer? Cease would have been nice but he hasn't been pitching like a front of the rotation starter and the White Sox didn't move him. During the offseason, all the front line starters like deGrom and Rodon have been injured for the most part, Verlander signed for crazy money, Eovaldi had some upside but came with risk. When you look back, there weren't many great options available to add a true No. 1 guy.

2 years/$24-25M would be reasonable for both sides. I don't want Merrifield getting in the 15M+ range per season given his age.

Yeah if the Jays can get Romano and Green back at 100%, along with Hicks, Mayza, Richards, Cabrera, should be good. Orioles have been working those guys hard so it's a matter of time they hit a wall. If they don't bounce back, could be trouble for them.

Innings and usage probably getting to them now, which is an advantage for us! If their pen can't keep pitching at an elite level, they will have a tough time in the Postseason.

I'll go with Kirk today

Wasn't Gomber pitching last night?

Their three big late inning bullpen arms have been really amazing. Like Bautista is on pace to finish with 3.0 WAR, Cano likely can come close to 2 WAR and Coulombe could get to 1.5 WAR. That's almost 7 WAR between those three pen arms alone. Who knows by time the Postseason rolls around if they run out of gas though, that would be ideal.

Gibson has a 2.3 WAR which is also tied with Berrios and ahead of Bassitt (1.4 WAR). According to WAR, he would be tied on the Jays as their second best pitcher. Orioles getting a lot from their bullpen obviously. Bautista has been worth 2.5 WAR, Cano has been worth 1.4 WAR and Coulombe 1.2 WAR. Crazy! Bradish at 1.9 WAR has been solid for them. Grayson looks like he's figured things out now as well.

Rockies had a lefty on the mound last night, so Muncy and Outman were on the bench. They rarely start against southpaws.

I think Bautista would also make a great manager down the road.

A lot of these gambling guys don't follow baseball as closely as die hard fans do of a certain team. I never take the advice of these guys who provide betting advice.

You can't take a joke geez FFS. Yeah Harper is a good comparison in terms of the years he struggled. There were seasons Harper never lived up to the hype. I still think Vlad could have another MVP type season in him. Likely will come in his walk year.

There should be a Jose Bautista statue outside of the Rogers Centre

Lmao you're so easy to trigger haha