John_Havok

They had to take Ty France.... I'd say it's halfway to backfiring already. I can find absolutely zero reason for France to be on this roster.

Johnny King giving me a Robbie Ray vibe in his look and approach to pitching. Me likey Needs to tighten up them pants though to complete the look.

Clement should not be starting against RHP regularly.

Yeah... it would just be really hard to do consistently since they wouldn't rwally be preaching spin rate... which might help them at home, but then wouldn't help on the road. Would be a nearly impossible task I would think. Maybe a guy like Bassitt...if he threw more ground balls?

Also. Very cool the Jays hit for the cycle on 4 consecutive batters... Varsho HR followed by Clement triple, Loperfido single and Schneider double.

The major problem in Colorado is that to develop a good pitching staff, they have to figure out how to generate all those ground balls with pitchers whose pitches don't move as much due to the thinner air. Not sure how they could overcome that in any meaningful way since movement of pitches depends alot on spin rate...and spin rate in thin air just doesnt translate to the movement they should be getting. Its also a big factor for why hitters there have big home/away splits. It's not just because the ball flies farther (that is also a big factor) but when they travel to other cities the balls break more than they are used to... so obviously impacts their ability to make hard contact.

Yes, thats what I meant. There was no reason for Atkins to be looking at France.

Bieber did well in his Buffalo start today. 5IP, 2 ER, 6K, 1 BB, 5 hits. Avg 93 i think with the fastball

Clement was the bonehead on that play. Not sure how anyone blames Varsho for stopping when given the stop sign but Ernie flies around 2nd

Kirk activated. Leo Jimenez sent down (thank god)

Red Sox are rolling now Theyre gonna be there at the end I think

France is not a good player. Hes a glove only 1b with no pop, can't run, and doesnt punish pitchers of either hand. His inclusion in the deal is mystifying

Regarding Bieber, yeah. All we can really say about it is...we can see the reasoning and logic behind the move, and I thinkkot was a good gamble given the marketplace, but who knows how it turns out. I give that trade an A in process, but results might be different

Imagine where it would be without the defense behind them.

This, exactly this. If he shoves in rehab and his numbers under the hood look great and he feels great... you give him a shot where ya can. Anything short of that and he spends the rest of the season at Buffalo and keeps working on it, and hopefully puts in some time in the lab over the winter.

Its a 1a, 1b thing. They're probably about as close to equal as you can get

That was nuked

Both the guys they got in the pen at the deadline have closer stuff. Just hard to be a closer your first year in the pen...and especially behind Duran and Griffin. Varland has the stuff, whether he gets an opportunity here is another story. It's generally not wise to give your pre-arb arms a ton of save chances since thats the big stat that drives arb raises. Not that Toronto would really need to worry about it with their payroll abilities He probably gets a shot at the rotation next year... watch as he shows up to camp with a brand new splitter hes been taught in the lab

Me neither. The best we can hope for is they identified him as a guy they think they can tweak into more pop quickly...otherwise, its a wtf addition

Free agency isn't a guarantee to get what you want when everyone other team on baseball (except a few ) are also actively looking at those same relievers. It's also even more likely you end up with a multi-year deal with a volatile asset dragging on your payroll, or just plain hurt and contributing nothing... a true sunk cost. I've been looking at all your replies and I understand the premise of what youre trying to say, but there are several assumptions about this team's ability to just pluck talent out of thin air and develop it, which makes it (in your view) inefficient use of prospect capital to acquire relievers with control. You'd rather the Jays gamble on the teams ability to attract and sign top FA relievers when available, or develop more internally. Problem is... the Jays havent been able to develop any relievers consistently on a year to year basis in the past...decade until maybe the last 2 seasons with Fluharty being the only true member of the current pitching roster fully developed internally. Yariel was already a pro Cuban pitcher so I don't really count him. Little was a successful reclamation project, so thats good too so I think its trending in the right direction, but they still aren't a pitching factory yet. Fisher is a good sign but his development was like 95% in the Dodgers system. So, today, I submit it makes more sense for the Jays in their current situation to not purely look at rentals and still grab a great looking controllable reliever when they can, even if the value comparison in a vacuum tilts to the other team. If they become a reliable franchise capable of churning out home-grown relievers on a year-to-year basis, rental additions make far more sense

It can still happen. But the Asian players have to forgo their own draft to do so. I don't even know if its happened before now even once

This assumes guys like Fisher grow on trees and that we have enough equivalents of Craig Biggio's kids around to dump, and that they're always going to be in a position to dump and there's a team willing to take them. I don't have enough faith the Jays development system that they can do this year in and year out yet.

I'd say, "good thing we don't have to trade him then" By the way, they traded for Fisher. If anything it's a decent example of Atkins being able to identify extremely useful relievers. Yeah Fisher's stuff was obvious given his K rates in the minors but he also walked the planet at the same time. They took a guy walking 8 per 9 in AAA and got him down to 2.3 per 9 in the majors in less than a year.

Fisrt off, Ignore that other guy, his ideas are about as solid as a soup sandwich. Manoah has options so he doesn't need to come back to the 26 man roster. He can do his thing in Buffalo and earn his way back once the rehab stint is over

Hopeful yes. Confident.... no, but that could just be my inner pessimist personality rearing its ugly head.