General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[jaysblue]

Goldy would be a perfect target as a 1B/DH bat. Only one year left at $26M. He wouldn't cost as much as Alonso or Soto in a trade, but could provide similar value with the bat if he bounces back. Still posted a 3.7 WAR with a 122 wRC+ last season and is one year removed from a 7 WAR and 176 wRC+ season in 2022.

 

Goldy might be a better target since you wouldn't have to trade someone like Tiedemann and comes with less commitment than someone like Arenado does.

 

This one is for Max, who says I prefer the team to go "dumpster diving" and sign "washed up guys."

 

Posted this on November 9th.

[max silver]

Ya they might have yelled at the core to get in shape

 

I specifically recall that it was reported years after the fact that Dalton Pompey was bullied by one of the Blue Jays veteran players when he was first called up. I don't have any specific information with regards to who the culprit was but it's not a giant leap of logic to place suspicions on a certain MVP level third baseman as the primary suspect.

[max silver]

This one is for Max, who says I prefer the team to go "dumpster diving" and sign "washed up guys."

 

Posted this on November 9th.

 

Not buying it man, likely taken out of context and specifically designed to make it look like you want the team to acquire dudes who are actually still good baseball players.

[Jays24]

I specifically recall that it was reported years after the fact that Dalton Pompey was bullied by one of the Blue Jays veteran players when he was first called up. I don't have any specific information with regards to who the culprit was but it's not a giant leap of logic to place suspicions on a certain MVP level third baseman as the primary suspect.

 

Quite the leap here lol. Although I do wish there is someone in the locker room that is bullying the fat asses to get into shape on our team.

[max silver]

Signing Free Agents for more term & money isn't splitting the atom or inventing penicillin. Its pretty simple. Its about $, geography and winning. Ryu, Springer and Kooch came here mainly for the $/term offered.

 

Jays have a history of signing FA's, like Russel Martin heading into 2015. We picked up big names like Cone, Morris, Winfield, Molitor and Stewart the last win window we had before that. Part of the attraction for Free Agents correlates to a chance to win, which is what KK and others have said. The reality is those windows have been few and far between (1994-2014 was dead).

 

I think Atkins/Shapiro came out of the gate hot criticizing AA for trading prospects promising "waves" of impact MLB talent from the farm. They have had some success in development, but its been modest compared to what they billed, by any objective analysis. Our entire rotation last year, once Manoah was shelved, was Free Agents. They also traded a lot of top prospects.

 

Without the draft & development success they hoped for, they pivoted to pillow deals and being willing to spend more signing a mix of younger and older veteran Free Agents like Ryu, Springer and Bassitt to remain "competitive". Overall they have been quite solid in these signings, but I don't think its sustainable. The back end of those deals, especially with the older player signings, can be painful and impact negatively future roster construction. Its my hope we start to get more impact talent developed internally and on our roster.

 

I can't say I disagree with any of this. The time for this to be a sustainable winning organization is running short, so it's imperative for the farm system to begin producing high quality inexpensive replacements within the next few years. The expensive rotation is one of the primary reasons I'd be very hesitant to trade Tiedemann and even Manoah, given the fact that the team simply can't sustain paying $100 million per season on the rotation alone, especially with the upcoming decisions to be made with regards to long term contracts pertaining to Bo and Vlad.

 

I think with the upcoming emergence of the likes of Barger, Rodon, Martinez and Tiedemann, who each have a shot to be above average MLB regulars in my view, that sustainable winning is still a possibility but far from a given.

[jaysblue]

Not buying it man, likely taken out of context and specifically designed to make it look like you want the team to acquire dudes who are actually still good baseball players.

 

What aren't you buying? I posted this on November 9th suggesting that Goldy would be a nice target since he is one year removed from a 7 WAR season, only has one year remaining at $26M and wouldn't cost as much in a trade as Soto or Alonso.

 

You're really confusing to figure out dude. I don't know what you're trying to prove, but just quit man!

[max silver]

What aren't you buying? I posted this on November 9th suggesting that Goldy would be a nice target since he is one year removed from a 7 WAR season, only has one year remaining at $26M and wouldn't cost as much in a trade as Soto or Alonso.

 

You're really confusing to figure out dude. I don't know what you're trying to prove, but just quit man!

 

You totally missed that I was joking.

[jaysblue]

You totally missed that I was joking.

 

We're even now.

[connorp]

Are you guys going to make out, or can the thread carry on?

[xposbrad]

What aren't you buying? I posted this on November 9th suggesting that Goldy would be a nice target since he is one year removed from a 7 WAR season, only has one year remaining at $26M and wouldn't cost as much in a trade as Soto or Alonso.

 

You're really confusing to figure out dude. I don't know what you're trying to prove, but just quit man!

 

So let's say the team ads Hoskins + Goldy next year and that's it, since that would use all the available budget, you think that is enough to make this a playoff team? I don't.

[connorp]

So let's say the team ads Hoskins + Goldy next year and that's it, since that would use all the available budget, you think that is enough to make this a playoff team? I don't.

 

What’s so different about the team to make it all the sudden not a playoff team? It’s just going to be what everyone wants, sneak into WC3 and have the same chance as everyone else that gets in to win the WS

[max silver]

So let's say the team ads Hoskins + Goldy next year and that's it, since that would use all the available budget, you think that is enough to make this a playoff team? I don't.

 

It might not be a playoff team without bouncebacks from some of the underperformers like Vlad, Kirk, Springer, Varsho, Manoah, Epsinal etc. (holy s*** that's a long list) No matter who is brought in the team likely needs better seasons from a lot of those guys if they are to have a shot to compete given how many wins are heading out the door in free agency.

[Marew]

What rumour return on Bo be?

 

A couple prospects maybe. Who knows, could even be the next Vlad Guerrero jr. could be nothing

[BatFlip]

Atkins has made solid moves and signings for sure during his tenure here. Never said he didn't.

 

Blue Jays traded for Robbie Ray correct? Not sign him as a FA? But regardless excellent pickup on an arm who had previous success a couple years earlier. Always was a Robbie Ray fan during his days in Arizona.

 

Nobody is arguing about Semien obviously. KK and Belt were questionable given their age and injury track record, but they turned out great and stayed healthy. Both could have went the other way and flopped, which some don't realize. Kikuchi looks good if he could prove his 2023 wasn't a fluke and do it again next season.

 

Nobody is arguing about the deals he didn't make. Definitely not caving into signing Jose Bautista to a 5 year $125M contract extension after 2016. Not extending Vlad to a big money extension looks like the right move now for sure. Would be interesting to see which posters on here wanted Bautista and/or Vladdy signed to crazy extensions. I remember some of the numbers being floated around with Vlad even after his 2022 season and it was crazy.

 

Atkins has been really solid here during his tenure in Toronto overall. Could he do better? Of course. I wouldn't put him that high on a pedestal yet however as some other shills on here already do.

 

Yeah, I don’t think we really disagree on Atkins. You’re right that Ray was initially a trade acquisition, but the Jays signed him as a FA after his short initial stint with the Jays.

 

While I’m not overly enamoured with Atkins, I think people have to be more objective when assessing his body of work.

[L54]

Yeah, I don’t think we really disagree on Atkins. You’re right that Ray was initially a trade acquisition, but the Jays signed him as a FA after his short initial stint with the Jays.

 

While I’m not overly enamoured with Atkins, I think people have to be more objective when assessing his body of work.

 

Atkins has been about a B overall. Could do better.

[L54]

So let's say the team ads Hoskins + Goldy next year and that's it, since that would use all the available budget, you think that is enough to make this a playoff team? I don't.

 

Can’t bring them both in as 1B only guys, but if they added two big bats like that you’d have to like the way the teams looks

[The Cats Ass]

Can’t bring them both in as 1B only guys, but if they added two big bats like that you’d have to like the way the teams looks

 

Sign Hoskins, trade for Eloy Jimenez throw him in LF. Varsho is good enough in CF he could make up for Eloy’s s***** D.

[BigCecil]

It might not be a playoff team without bouncebacks from some of the underperformers like Vlad, Kirk, Springer, Varsho, Manoah, Epsinal etc. (holy s*** that's a long list) No matter who is brought in the team likely needs better seasons from a lot of those guys if they are to have a shot to compete given how many wins are heading out the door in free agency.

 

The ZiPS projections are underwhelming FWIW. Like a lot of teams they are going to need some over performance and a great off season.

 

2.5 Springer; 1.9 Varsho; Vlad & Bo 3 and 3.9. Chappy projected 2nd in WAR and he is likely gone.

 

I have this strange feeling this team could win the WS or be the White Sox lol. The narrative on fangraphs page for ZiPS says of Vlad "practically nothing between a one and six-win season would surprise me at this point." Sums it up well.

 

Depending on how it goes they may face some huge decisions at the '24 deadline.

 

Will be a very interesting year.

[Jimcanuck]

ZIPS is pretty conservative, mind you.

[max silver]

The ZiPS projections are underwhelming FWIW. Like a lot of teams they are going to need some over performance and a great off season.

 

2.5 Springer; 1.9 Varsho; Vlad & Bo 3 and 3.9. Chappy projected 2nd in WAR and he is likely gone.

 

I have this strange feeling this team could win the WS or be the White Sox lol. The narrative on fangraphs page for ZiPS says of Vlad "practically nothing between a one and six-win season would surprise me at this point." Sums it up well.

 

Depending on how it goes they may face some huge decisions at the '24 deadline.

 

Will be a very interesting year.

 

Most of these sound pretty reasonable, but I think if Varsho plays primarily in center field next season he should beat his projection pretty handily. The projection systems don't buy him as an elite defender as of yet, however the on the field results paint a decidedly different picture. Over the last two seasons of play he leads MLB in combined OAA at 28, with the next closest player coming in at 21 OAA. DRS gives him an even bigger lead as it rates his left field defence much higher than OAA, where he leads the pack with 48 DRS. The next closest player has 31 DRS for comparison.

[jaysblue]

Sign Hoskins, trade for Eloy Jimenez throw him in LF. Varsho is good enough in CF he could make up for Eloy’s s***** D.

 

Trade for Moncada as well to play 3B.

[max silver]

Sign Hoskins, trade for Eloy Jimenez throw him in LF. Varsho is good enough in CF he could make up for Eloy’s s***** D.

 

Jiminez has suffered from so many lower half injuries that he doesn't seem like a guy you'd want spending very much time in the outfield. He's like a younger version of Giancarlo Stanton when it comes to the leg injuries.

[BigCecil]

ZIPS is pretty conservative, mind you.

 

yep. Not a bad thing.

 

I think steamer is more aggressive. Has Kirk, Bo and Vlad all right around 4 and Varsho & Springer at 3. We will probably need all that.

[Frenchsoup]

I think we're due for a move

[Frenchsoup]

AA's latest deal with Chicago's Cris Getz looks like a fleecing by Getz. Nicky Lopez is far more valuable on the roster then a hard throwing lefty reliever with elite k potential but command issues. He's a high injury risk IMO as well. Also commands a decent salary at around 7 mill i believe. Lopez plays 2b/ss/3b/of at a high level and is in his prime. Great lil leadoff hitter! White sox got 4 more players back in the deal!

[TheHurl]

AA's latest deal with Chicago's Cris Getz looks like a fleecing by Getz. Nicky Lopez is far more valuable on the roster then a hard throwing lefty reliever with elite k potential but command issues. He's a high injury risk IMO as well. Also commands a decent salary at around 7 mill i believe. Lopez plays 2b/ss/3b/of at a high level and is in his prime. Great lil leadoff hitter! White sox got 4 more players back in the deal!

 

I suppose you can't judge it as a standalone until we see what he does with the roster spots. I think the Braves at 31 people on the 40 have the most open spots by 5 or 6 (i haven't looked but by comparison the Jays have 38 and many holes to fill). They could be in position to add 4 or 5 guys depth guys that actually have options.

[Frenchsoup]

I want a 3rd baseman pretty bad right now.....Chapman/Donaldson/Candelairo/Justin Turner/ IKF/ Jace Peterson/ Evan Longoria/ Kyle Farmer/Alan Trejo trade. I'd be happy with any of these guys.

[Frenchsoup]

if Bummer gets hurt it's a fleece. Unless AA cleared some payroll with Soroka and Kyle Wright which I think he did.

[Jimcanuck]

Jiminez has suffered from so many lower half injuries that he doesn't seem like a guy you'd want spending very much time in the outfield. He's like a younger version of Giancarlo Stanton when it comes to the leg injuries.

 

Eloy played 14 games in the OF in 2023. Getting close to being a DH only

[Frenchsoup]

I'd rather have Votto/ Belt/Rowdy at dh. Then give up prospects for Eloy need a lefty power bat there.