General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[BigCecil]

JRod is 91st in wRC+ and Witt 125th in wRC+

 

They aren't worth contracts either right lol

 

Jrod has been worth 1.8 WAR so far given other value he adds. 3 times Vlads. The issue with Vlad is 1B - he needs to rake.

 

But you are right Jrod isn't hitting well yet, and this highlights some of the risk in long term expensive signings of young players.

[Spanky99]

Jrod has been worth 1.8 WAR so far given other value he adds. 3 times Vlads. The issue with Vlad is 1B - he needs to rake.

 

But you are right Jrod isn't hitting well yet, and this highlights some of the risk in long term expensive signings of young players.

 

Bingo!

[Spanky99]

You might have been able to trade Bo to ATL last offseason for Acuna since the Braves were looking for a shortstop after Swanson left and Acuna prior to this season was looking like he was made of glass.

 

Doubt the Braves would need Vladdy right now.

 

And that would never had made sense either, there's zero matchup with the Braves, Olson's better than Vlad at the moment. That suggestion is absurd.

[Pendleton]

[Daniel Labude]

Jrod has been worth 1.8 WAR so far given other value he adds. 3 times Vlads. The issue with Vlad is 1B - he needs to rake.

 

But you are right Jrod isn't hitting well yet, and this highlights some of the risk in long term expensive signings of young players.

 

It actually shows the horrible flaw in WAR

[Spanky99]

[max silver]

It actually shows the horrible flaw in WAR

 

Does it really? It makes perfect sense to me that an elite defensive centerfielder or shortstop is going to accumulate a lot more defensive WAR than a first baseman given the difficulty inherent to each position. On top of that a really good defensive outfielder is going to be able to save a lot of extra base hits from falling in, and has more opportunities to accumulate defensive runs saved based on their ability to limit baserunners from advancing on the bases.

[Spanky99]

Does it really? It makes perfect sense to me that an elite defensive centerfielder or shortstop is going to accumulate a lot more defensive WAR than a first baseman given the difficulty inherent to each position. On top of that a really good defensive outfielder is going to be able to save a lot of extra base hits from falling in, and has more opportunities to accumulate defensive runs saved based on their ability to limit baserunners from advancing on the bases.

 

lol... that clown's reaching.

[Daniel Labude]

Does it really? It makes perfect sense to me that an elite defensive centerfielder or shortstop is going to accumulate a lot more defensive WAR than a first baseman given the difficulty inherent to each position. On top of that a really good defensive outfielder is going to be able to save a lot of extra base hits from falling in, and has more opportunities to accumulate defensive runs saved based on their ability to limit baserunners from advancing on the bases.

 

WAR doesn't take into account what a 1B does to save base runners from bad throws and when you have someone like Bo was last year its extremely valuable, maybe so more than a good defensive OF. At the same time WAR gives automatic boosts based on position...regardless of how you play. The worst RF in baseball almost all time defensively (Soto) got a higher boost than Vlad. Not a chance in hell that should happen, but it does in WAR. Then you have range and difficulty of play and errors factored in. How many errors do great 1B save from the rest of the team committing (hundreds) for a great 1B...again a s*** hole RF gets more credit for just being a RF and having to jog to a ball and an unplayable SS gets an even higher boost

 

It is flawed imo. Is there a better method...not yet. But flawed it is

[bluejaysinternNo5]

WAR doesn't take into account what a 1B does to save base runners from bad throws and when you have someone like Bo was last year its extremely valuable, maybe so more than a good defensive OF. At the same time WAR gives automatic boosts based on position...regardless of how you play. The worst RF in baseball almost all time defensively (Soto) got a higher boost than Vlad. Not a chance in hell that should happen, but it does in WAR. Then you have range and difficulty of play and errors factored in. How many errors do great 1B save from the rest of the team committing (hundreds) for a great 1B...again a s*** hole RF gets more credit for just being a RF and having to jog to a ball and an unplayable SS gets an even higher boost

 

It is flawed imo. Is there a better method...not yet. But flawed it is

 

No. Just no.

[Daniel Labude]

No. Just no.

 

I guess I shouldn't think critically or go against the hive mind then lol

[bluejaysinternNo5]

I guess I shouldn't think critically or go against the hive mind then lol

 

You're more then welcome to think critically! But perhaps next time come up with some mathematical evidence that first basemen are critically undervalued defensively. Especially when it generally comes intuitively that 1B is where you put your player that literally cannot play anywhere else. We had a younger, fitter Vlad play 3B in his first year and he was just horrendous. When most other positions (both infield and outfield) can slide in at 1B and generally be more than passable it follows that a first basemen's WAR would take a hit.

[connorp]

You're more then welcome to think critically! But perhaps next time come up with some mathematical evidence that first basemen are critically undervalued defensively. Especially when it generally comes intuitively that 1B is where you put your player that literally cannot play anywhere else. We had a younger, fitter Vlad play 3B in his first year and he was just horrendous. When most other positions (both infield and outfield) can slide in at 1B and generally be more than passable it follows that a first basemen's WAR would take a hit.

 

You guys think you’re so smart. Why do you need mathematical evidence to know something exists? Why don’t you use those extra brains to make a formula to find out how many runs a 1b saves with picks

[Spanky99]

You guys think you’re so smart. Why do you need mathematical evidence to know something exists? Why don’t you use those extra brains to make a formula to find out how many runs a 1b saves with picks

 

It's calculated, meat.

[connorp]

lol... that clown's reaching.

 

Most of you guys only understand what someone teaches you and you have the inability to think outside of that. Just like not understanding how park factor works. It’s amazing how dumb smart people can be

[connorp]

It's calculated, meat.

 

It is calculated like range factor and UZR? Do you even know? Prob not

[Spanky99]

Most of you guys only understand what someone teaches you and you have the inability to think outside of that. Just like not understanding how park factor works. It’s amazing how dumb smart people can be

 

Sir, you did not know how wRC+ worked.

[Spanky99]

It is calculated like range factor and UZR? Do you even know? Prob not

 

lol... I SAID GOOD DAY!!!

[connorp]

Sir, you did not know how wRC+ worked.

 

You don’t, amigo. Read that paragraph I sent over-and-over and maybe it’ll eventually sink in

[connorp]

I do believe I passed you for the last playoff spot in Yahoo too. Could’ve won bigger though against your clown squad. I’ll take it though

[Spanky99]

You don’t, amigo. Read that paragraph I sent over-and-over and maybe it’ll eventually sink in

 

The one where it explains wRC adjusted to wRC+? Yeah, that one, you're too dumb to even comprehend what what you INITIALLY said about wRC+. f***ing minion.

[connorp]

The one where it explains wRC adjusted to wRC+? Yeah, that one, you're too dumb to even comprehend what what you INITIALLY said about wRC+. f***ing minion.

 

Save your spamming for Grindr, Spanky. It’s Fathers Day and it’s an unnecessary read today

[Spanky99]

I do believe I passed you for the last playoff spot in Yahoo too. Could’ve won bigger though against your clown squad. I’ll take it though

 

Spike Dat' Ball... I didn't even draft that team, I missed it, lol. Nice play on trying to skunk me with 2 shitbaggers and a rookie.

[Spanky99]

Save your spamming for Grindr, Spanky. It’s Fathers Day and it’s an unnecessary read today

 

Stop procreating, do us a favour.

[connorp]

Spike Dat' Ball... I didn't even draft that team, I missed it, lol. Nice play on trying to skunk me with 2 shitbaggers and a rookie.

 

Prevented the 10 spot I wanted, yes.

[Pendleton]

[max silver]

 

The team could really use the non s***** version of Pop for middle inning relief. Especially given how awful Cimber has been this season.

[wilko]

The team could really use the non s***** version of Pop for middle inning relief. Especially given how awful Cimber has been this season.

 

I think it's time to cut Cimber loose.

[Jonn]

Pop was showing legit signs of being good. He only really had 2 s*** outings that ballooned his numbers. He replaces Cimber for sure. Whatever worked for Ciber before is no longer working. I remember hearing in Spring he was experimenting with where he was standing on the mound to create even more extreme angles. Maybe he should ditch that if he hasn’t already.

[max silver]

Pop was showing legit signs of being good. He only really had 2 s*** outings that ballooned his numbers. He replaces Cimber for sure. Whatever worked for Ciber before is no longer working. I remember hearing in Spring he was experimenting with where he was standing on the mound to create even more extreme angles. Maybe he should ditch that if he hasn’t already.

I remember that top, it really felt like a case of fixing something that wasn't broken. Cimber wasn't necessarily a guy you wanted to bring in with runners on base as he didn't induce many strikeouts , but he was still a really effective middle reliever. Middle relief is somewhat surprisingly the main weakness of this pen as the leverage relief (aside from Garcia) has mostly been quite effective.

Edited June 19, 2023 by max silver