Around Baseball 2023

[BTS]

Man just walk away. This is undignified

 

[Eat My Shatkins]

How broke are the Padres?

 

Bo, Springer, Espinal, Manoah for Tatis, Machado (Padres eat 1/3), Bogaerts (Padres eat 1/4)

 

Sign Stroman and JDM

[Carlos Danger]

There is nothing there that comes close to slander. MLB never stated Bauer committed a crime.

 

Bauer lost his defamation case against Deadspin.

 

Read the elements of a defamation case in the US. MLB said he violated a sexual abuse policy with such veracity that he received a record suspension.

 

Deadspin is media and held to a different standard, especially if only reporting on what MLB said in the first place.

 

I bet you MLB would settle before taking their chances on a jury trial.

[L54]

MLB is just protecting its brand. I have no idea what "cancel culture" is. Is it when you do something offensive and there are consequences. Accountability?

 

I will argue pedophiles are more offensive than consenting adults who have kinky sex

[L54]

CD is bringing the HEAT

 

Everything he’s saying makes sense. But there is no reason for Bauer to act until he’s finished talking with teams this offseason and see where those talks lead

[Jimcanuck]

I will argue pedophiles are more offensive than consenting adults who have kinky sex

 

True, but what does that have to do with the discussion?

[Jimcanuck]

Read the elements of a defamation case in the US. MLB said he violated a sexual abuse policy with such veracity that he received a record suspension.

 

Deadspin is media and held to a different standard, especially if only reporting on what MLB said in the first place.

 

I bet you MLB would settle before taking their chances on a jury trial.

 

There's no defamation case against MLB. The policy that was contravened is in the CBA that Bauer signed onto through the union. The arbitration panel (3 person) determined Bauer contravened the policy.

 

Good luck with the case, Carlos.

[L54]

True, but what does that have to do with the discussion?

 

Why hasn’t the MLB brand distanced itself from Wander Franco yet?

[max silver]

Why hasn’t the MLB brand distanced itself from Wander Franco yet?

 

I would assume they haven't completed a formal investigation yet. That should be easy for you to surmise on your own.

[Dick_Pole]

Bauer returning to the MLB is like the big f*** you to cancel culture professional sports needs right now.

 

Isn't it really just Bauer who isn't playing but maybe should be, as far as baseball goes?

 

I think what he means is attempted cancel culture, from virtue signaling reporters and annoying "fans" on social media who make mountains out of molehills and who think coaches should be fired because they support Trump instead of being fired for being bad at their job. Bauer returning would hopefully cause the movement to go full Jim Jones Kool-Aid level.

 

But in terms of baseball players being jettisoned for various non-baseball related acts, we do have three examples that come to my mind just on the Jays. Osuna, Yunel Escobar and what's-his-face RP from this past season (too lazy/don't care enough to even look up his name on BR). Now one could easily argue that Osuna was justified/necessary, what's-his-face sucked anyways and only Escobar was the bad move made for PR.

 

I also recall that there was a big hoopla over something Pillar did that last about 10 seconds before blowing over.

[Dick_Pole]

Why hasn’t the MLB brand distanced itself from Wander Franco yet?

 

They haven't? The guy is on indefinite leave. What more do you want? The fact that Manfred hasn't had to stick himself in front of the camera 24/7 to denounce him likely has much more to do with Dodgers (media and fans care) versus Rays (no one cares) than any bias towards each individual player.

[max silver]

I think what he means is attempted cancel culture, from virtue signaling reporters and annoying "fans" on social media who make mountains out of molehills and who think coaches should be fired because they support Trump instead of being fired for being bad at their job. Bauer returning would hopefully cause the movement to go full Jim Jones Kool-Aid level.

 

But in terms of baseball players being jettisoned for various non-baseball related acts, we do have three examples that come to my mind just on the Jays. Osuna, Yunel Escobar and what's-his-face RP from this past season (too lazy/don't care enough to even look up his name on BR). Now one could easily argue that Osuna was justified/necessary, what's-his-face sucked anyways and only Escobar was the bad move made for PR.

 

I also recall that there was a big hoopla over something Pillar did that last about 10 seconds before blowing over.

 

Osuna absolutely needed to go, he's the only one of the mentioned players I fully supported jettisoning from the team. It's a semi miracle the team was able to acquire Giles in return. Escobar was reportedly a huge problem in the clubhouse due to lousy attitude/constant sulking but at least he was traded for something in return in the ill fated Marlins deal. What's his face essentially shot himself in the foot and forced the team to get rid of him due to intense public backlash after he simply couldn't keep his mouth shut. Pillar displayed what at least appeared to be genuine contrition and this appeared to be someone who was caught up in the heat of the moment and uttered a homophobic slur in a casual fashion without realizing how hurtful his actions were to certain people.

[Jimcanuck]

I think what he means is attempted cancel culture, from virtue signaling reporters and annoying "fans" on social media who make mountains out of molehills and who think coaches should be fired because they support Trump instead of being fired for being bad at their job. Bauer returning would hopefully cause the movement to go full Jim Jones Kool-Aid level.

 

But in terms of baseball players being jettisoned for various non-baseball related acts, we do have three examples that come to my mind just on the Jays. Osuna, Yunel Escobar and what's-his-face RP from this past season (too lazy/don't care enough to even look up his name on BR). Now one could easily argue that Osuna was justified/necessary, what's-his-face sucked anyways and only Escobar was the bad move made for PR.

 

I also recall that there was a big hoopla over something Pillar did that last about 10 seconds before blowing over.

 

So cancel culture is a business being responsive to its clients / fanbase?

[RobinThicc]

Robert Murray on his Youtube podcast says the Blue Jays aren't done by any means and that he wouldn't be surprised if they get multiple more bats. "Be patient Blue Jays fans, Ross Atkins is not done."

 

Soler and a 3B

[Carlos Danger]

There's no defamation case against MLB. The policy that was contravened is in the CBA that Bauer signed onto through the union. The arbitration panel (3 person) determined Bauer contravened the policy.

 

Good luck with the case, Carlos.

 

Thanks for the positive wishes.

 

Jim, I think you are confusing or conflating an Administrative hearing, with a civil case, vs a criminal case.

[Laika]

In Canada the principle of res judicata prevents most people from getting a "second try" in court if they have already had the benefit of something fair like an arbitration process that was collectively bargained for by their union.

 

However, not sure if this would apply to Bauer in whatever the relevant US state is. Maybe he can just sue the Dodgers and MLB under a basic breach or contract case. Depends on the relevant state and the prevailing laws. Also depends on the arbitration context perhaps. In Canada you can sometimes do it as well but it depends on the facts. Sometimes you would need to choose a civil suit before using the arb process.

 

A procedural appeal of the arbitration process would be a different form or claim that may be open to him. Those are difficult and strict though. So if he can just have double jeopardy and sue the dodgers for breach or contract he is better off. A procedural review asks a narrow question like "did the arbitration process have a flaw" it does not ask "does the court agree with the decision".

 

But I don't see the slander angle at all. It's a stretch. I bet all MLB ever said was that he violated the policy and since the arbitration panel agreed, MLB can certainly say they weren't lying.

[The Cats Ass]

Uris will be another suspension to follow. In theory he should get a worse punishment than Bauer should he not?

[Laika]

Uris will be another suspension to follow. In theory he should get a worse punishment than Bauer should he not?

 

You would hope so...

[Jimcanuck]

Thanks for the positive wishes.

 

Jim, I think you are confusing or conflating an Administrative hearing, with a civil case, vs a criminal case.

 

Not conflating anything. You haven't demonstrated a single sentence I have written to be incorrect. Your bald statements are disregarded.

[Jimcanuck]

Bauer would have a high bar to overturn the arbitration panel's decision.

 

 

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c656521d-2f05-4333-8eb1-1d938d66d051

 

Judicial review of disciplinary matters is rare, though not impossible. The parties to arbitration may appeal the decision to federal court under the Labor Management Relations Act (LMRA)25 and Federal Arbitration Act (FAA).26 The courts' review of the arbitration award is deferential, as courts have little authority to overturn an arbitration on the merits and are generally limited to fundamental procedural flaws, such as fraud or misconduct or arbitrator bias. NFL quarterback Tom Brady of the New England Patriots lost under this standard when he appealed his suspension for his alleged deflating footballs, a scandal known as Deflategate, to federal court under the LMRA. Brady argued there were numerous problems with the arbitration, including lack of notice under the CBA, but the Second Circuit upheld the suspension because 'this case is not an exceptional one that warrants vacatur' given the deferential standard.

[wilko]

Man just walk away. This is undignified

 

 

If the Reds don't want him, who will? You're 40 and played with one team. Not many players can say that these days.

[L54]

Uris will be another suspension to follow. In theory he should get a worse punishment than Bauer should he not?

 

Should be I’m sure he won’t

[Carlos Danger]

Bauer would have a high bar to overturn the arbitration panel's decision.

 

 

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c656521d-2f05-4333-8eb1-1d938d66d051

 

Judicial review of disciplinary matters is rare, though not impossible. The parties to arbitration may appeal the decision to federal court under the Labor Management Relations Act (LMRA)25 and Federal Arbitration Act (FAA).26 The courts' review of the arbitration award is deferential, as courts have little authority to overturn an arbitration on the merits and are generally limited to fundamental procedural flaws, such as fraud or misconduct or arbitrator bias. NFL quarterback Tom Brady of the New England Patriots lost under this standard when he appealed his suspension for his alleged deflating footballs, a scandal known as Deflategate, to federal court under the LMRA. Brady argued there were numerous problems with the arbitration, including lack of notice under the CBA, but the Second Circuit upheld the suspension because 'this case is not an exceptional one that warrants vacatur' given the deferential standard.

 

Yes, that was avenue one. Which I said he would likely not have success and would be much more difficult, since he would be fighting the CBA among other established issues.

 

Not an apples and apples discussion.

 

In regards to the civil case for Slander or Liable whichever they choose, (reputation and earnings damage), according to Bauer/legal team, there was evidence available to MLB that was not considered or not made public that could have mitigated the veracity of the accusations etc. Like that morning after video I think is one of them.

 

I am still waiting to find out how Bauer violated the policy if all the beating her face to a pulp etc was BS?

 

Lastly, in the U.S a very high number of suits brought forward if any merit what so ever are settled by the corporation/company/individual before they even make it to court.

 

The chances of losing in a jury trial, plus legal fees and reputational damage make it more prudent to settle out of court. Regardless, if BS half the time, it is better fiscal policy/risk mitigation to settle.

 

I hate that we are such a litigious society in the US. However, I think Bauer has enough to at least make MLB settle if not flat out win a jury trial.

 

Again, this is Bauer’s nuclear option if he can’t ever get an MLB contract/tryout etc.

[Jimcanuck]

Yes, that was avenue one. Which I said he would likely not have success and would be much more difficult, since he would be fighting the CBA among other established issues.

 

Not an apples and apples discussion.

 

In regards to the civil case for Slander or Liable whichever they choose, (reputation and earnings damage), according to Bauer/legal team, there was evidence available to MLB that was not considered or not made public that could have mitigated the veracity of the accusations etc. Like that morning after video I think is one of them.

 

I am still waiting to find out how Bauer violated the policy if all the beating her face to a pulp etc was BS?

 

Lastly, in the U.S a very high number of suits brought forward if any merit what so ever are settled by the corporation/company/individual before they even make it to court.

 

The chances of losing in a jury trial, plus legal fees and reputational damage make it more prudent to settle out of court. Regardless, if BS half the time, it is better fiscal policy/risk mitigation to settle.

 

I hate that we are such a litigious society in the US. However, I think Bauer has enough to at least make MLB settle if not flat out win a jury trial.

 

Again, this is Bauer’s nuclear option if he can’t ever get an MLB contract/tryout etc.

 

Good luck, Carlos.

[Laika]

Yes, that was avenue one. Which I said he would likely not have success and would be much more difficult, since he would be fighting the CBA among other established issues.

 

Not an apples and apples discussion.

 

In regards to the civil case for Slander or Liable whichever they choose, (reputation and earnings damage), according to Bauer/legal team, there was evidence available to MLB that was not considered or not made public that could have mitigated the veracity of the accusations etc. Like that morning after video I think is one of them.

 

I am still waiting to find out how Bauer violated the policy if all the beating her face to a pulp etc was BS?

 

Lastly, in the U.S a very high number of suits brought forward if any merit what so ever are settled by the corporation/company/individual before they even make it to court.

 

The chances of losing in a jury trial, plus legal fees and reputational damage make it more prudent to settle out of court. Regardless, if BS half the time, it is better fiscal policy/risk mitigation to settle.

 

I hate that we are such a litigious society in the US. However, I think Bauer has enough to at least make MLB settle if not flat out win a jury trial.

 

Again, this is Bauer’s nuclear option if he can’t ever get an MLB contract/tryout etc.

 

The definitions in the policy are pretty broad. Easy to see how someone could fit the definition without committing a crime.

 

I. Definitions.

Domestic violence is a pattern of abusive behavior in any intimate relationship that

is used by one partner to gain or maintain power and control over another intimate

partner. It occurs in heterosexual and same sex relationships and impacts

individuals from all economic, educational, cultural, age, gender, racial, and

religious demographics. Domestic violence includes, but is not limited to, physical

or sexual violence, emotional and/or psychological intimidation, verbal violence,

stalking, economic control, harassment, physical intimidation, or injury.

Notwithstanding this definition, a single incident of abusive behavior in any

intimate relationship, or a single incident of abusive behavior involving a female

member of a Player’s family who is domiciled with him, may subject a Player to

discipline under this Policy.

Sexual assault refers to a range of behaviors, including a completed nonconsensual

sex act, an attempted nonconsensual sex act, and/or nonconsensual sexual contact.

Lack of consent is inferred when a person uses force, harassment, threat of force,

threat of adverse personnel or disciplinary action, or other coercion, or when the

victim is asleep, incapacitated, unconscious or legally incapable of consent.

[metafour]

I. Definitions.

Domestic violence is a pattern of abusive behavior in any intimate relationship that

is used by one partner to gain or maintain power and control over another intimate

partner.

 

Funny, as per the definition it actually seems like Bauer is the victim in this case seeing as the other party used "abusive behavior" in order to "gain or maintain power and control" (ie: she made a fake scenario up in order to extort him of his fame and money).

 

Definition of "abusive behavior:

 

"Abusive Behavior includes actions that engender fear and intimidation, or undermine the other person's self-determination. Many controlling behaviors may also be abusive within the context of physical or psychological abuse."

[metafour]

So cancel culture is a business being responsive to its clients / fanbase?

 

You conveniently left out the fact that the "clients/fanbase" were lied to in terms of the actual facts of what he was being accused of, which means that Bauer was a victim of character assassination.

 

So if I'm a direct client of your employer and I decide to tell them that you stole something from me (which in fact you didn't do), then your employer is free to terminate your employment without due process? I mean, what's the problem? The employer is just protecting its good image and clearly doesn't want to employ a thief. Or do you think that your employer should need to wait for the facts of the case to be determined before taking action?

 

The fact that people are still trying to play stupid over this Bauer case is mind blowing. "Oh sorry, we're just being responsive to our clients and fanbase" is not good enough. As you hopefully just learned by the facts of Bauer's case actually coming to light, it's incredibly easy to make things up in order to harm someone's image. In this case we know without a shadow of a doubt that Bauer was targeted and unfairly penalized by his employer by way of the fact that the MLB already had SEVERAL other cases of precedent wherein other players were actually arrested and charged for crimes similar to or worse than what Bauer was only accused of, but somehow they not only didn't receive the suspension he received, but in several of those cases the player in question is actively still playing.

[Jimcanuck]

You conveniently left out the fact that the "clients/fanbase" were lied to in terms of the actual facts of what he was being accused of, which means that Bauer was a victim of character assassination.

 

So if I'm a direct client of your employer and I decide to tell them that you stole something from me (which in fact you didn't do), then your employer is free to terminate your employment without due process? I mean, what's the problem? The employer is just protecting its good image and clearly doesn't want to employ a thief. Or do you think that your employer should need to wait for the facts of the case to be determined before taking action?

 

The fact that people are still trying to play stupid over this Bauer case is mind blowing. "Oh sorry, we're just being responsive to our clients and fanbase" is not good enough. As you hopefully just learned by the facts of Bauer's case actually coming to light, it's incredibly easy to make things up in order to harm someone's image. In this case we know without a shadow of a doubt that Bauer was targeted and unfairly penalized by his employer by way of the fact that the MLB already had SEVERAL other cases of precedent wherein other players were actually arrested and charged for crimes similar to or worse than what Bauer was only accused of, but somehow they not only didn't receive the suspension he received, but in several of those cases the player in question is actively still playing.

 

I didn't omit anything and there is no need anyway. The independent arbitrator panel determined that Bauer did, in fact, contravene MLB's policy.

 

MLB did its due diligence, carrying out a 9 month investigation, BEFORE Bauer was suspended. Prior to the suspension, he was on the restricted list and continued to be paid.

 

You do not have the information the arbitrator panel used to make its decision, information that will be confidential as this is an HR issue. What you think, based on the social media you choose to rely on, is of zero import.

[Marew]

I agree with Jim in that the MLB didn’t do its due diligence and really jumped the gun on the suspension. Makes them look very incompetent and malicious.

[L54]

I hope Jim is taking notes during this lesson he’s receiving