Around Baseball 2023

[max silver]

Did we think Belt in 2023 was going to produce 2.3 WAR for 9M? Or KK 2.2 WAR for $9M? Sometimes you have to make those types of signings to fill out your MLB roster. Sometimes you get lucky and they work out or sometimes they don't.

 

Which platoon option in LF do you think could work? Throw out some names and offer to the discussion at least. I agree that going with Gallo + Taylor or another platoon combination in LF might not pan out. It very well could or it might not.

 

Atkins gets so much praise around here for signing Belt and KK last offseason. Though now nobody wants him to make those types of moves or FA signings which is ironic. Obviously Gallo/Taylor or whatever platoon they decide for LF isn't going to be the highlight of their offseason. Go out and sign Hoskins or JDM for $18-20M to be your DH and trade for a solid 3B. You can't have a perfect roster all around. There are definitely some intriguing pieces in LF who could be bounce back candidates and buy low options as FA's, so why not try to target those types of players for LF if that is the last area to address?

 

I'm all up for signing someone like Teo or Soler, but do we really want to commit to them for 3 to 4 years at close to $18M each season, when that ties up potential funds next offseason from signing a more elite FA like Soto or Bregman? We could very well sign Chapman, Bellinger and/or one of Teo or Soler, but then count the Jays out on Soto, Bregman, Wheeler or Fried next offseason.

 

Acting like a Gallo signing would be similar to the Belt and Kiermaier signings is a false equivalence. Both of Belt and Kiermaier were greatly hampered on the field with injured body parts that were surgically repaired. Each of these guys experienced only a single down season before signing with the Blue Jays. The key difference with Gallo is that he has displayed greatly reduced baseball skills over the last few seasons with no underlying medical issue that I'm aware of.

 

Gallo has simultaneously seen his already too high strikeout rate continue to rise to career worst levels while also posting the highest pop up rates in his career. He's only been a 105 wRC+ hitter on the good side of his platoon, and has been reduced to essentially a 1B/LF at this point of his career. It really seems like his best days are well behind him at this point and he just isn't a realistic candidate to bounce back given all of the offensive red flags.

[Jimcanuck]

Did we think Belt in 2023 was going to produce 2.3 WAR for 9M? Or KK 2.2 WAR for $9M? Sometimes you have to make those types of signings to fill out your MLB roster. Sometimes you get lucky and they work out or sometimes they don't.

 

Which platoon option in LF do you think could work? Throw out some names and offer to the discussion at least. I agree that going with Gallo + Taylor or another platoon combination in LF might not pan out. It very well could or it might not.

 

Atkins gets so much praise around here for signing Belt and KK last offseason. Though now nobody wants him to make those types of moves or FA signings which is ironic. Obviously Gallo/Taylor or whatever platoon they decide for LF isn't going to be the highlight of their offseason. Go out and sign Hoskins or JDM for $18-20M to be your DH and trade for a solid 3B. You can't have a perfect roster all around. There are definitely some intriguing pieces in LF who could be bounce back candidates and buy low options as FA's, so why not try to target those types of players for LF if that is the last area to address?

 

I'm all up for signing someone like Teo or Soler, but do we really want to commit to them for 3 to 4 years at close to $18M each season, when that ties up potential funds next offseason from signing a more elite FA like Soto or Bregman? We could very well sign Chapman, Bellinger and/or one of Teo or Soler, but then count the Jays out on Soto, Bregman, Wheeler or Fried next offseason.

 

Toronto is not the most desirable location. Forgoing whats available now and taking their chances on what *might* be available next offseason is probably not prudent. One, two, or even all four of those potential free agents after the 2024 season may be signed before the Jays can even make an offer.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Jimcanuck

[John_Havok]

Did we think Belt in 2023 was going to produce 2.3 WAR for 9M? Or KK 2.2 WAR for $9M? Sometimes you have to make those types of signings to fill out your MLB roster. Sometimes you get lucky and they work out or sometimes they don't.

 

Which platoon option in LF do you think could work? Throw out some names and offer to the discussion at least. I agree that going with Gallo + Taylor or another platoon combination in LF might not pan out. It very well could or it might not.

 

Atkins gets so much praise around here for signing Belt and KK last offseason. Though now nobody wants him to make those types of moves or FA signings which is ironic. Obviously Gallo/Taylor or whatever platoon they decide for LF isn't going to be the highlight of their offseason. Go out and sign Hoskins or JDM for $18-20M to be your DH and trade for a solid 3B. You can't have a perfect roster all around. There are definitely some intriguing pieces in LF who could be bounce back candidates and buy low options as FA's, so why not try to target those types of players for LF if that is the last area to address?

 

I'm all up for signing someone like Teo or Soler, but do we really want to commit to them for 3 to 4 years at close to $18M each season, when that ties up potential funds next offseason from signing a more elite FA like Soto or Bregman? We could very well sign Chapman, Bellinger and/or one of Teo or Soler, but then count the Jays out on Soto, Bregman, Wheeler or Fried next offseason.

 

I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory they need to bring in a full platoon for LF. Biggio can already play out there if needed, as can Schneider (kinda), Otto Lopez, and apparently both Barger and Orelvis are being tagged as 2b/OF guys rather than 3b according to Sorrow, the poster who's friend gives him all kinds of seemingly credible inside info. Getting both sides of a platoon for LF seems unnecessary to me.

 

First step, get Michael A Taylor as your 4th OF, then sign the best starting LF you can, regardless of handedness. I think it's Bellinger, and I will likely hate the dollars and years, but he doesn't need a platoon partner, and if a tough lefty comes in and you don't want both Belli and Varsho in the lineup, Taylor goes in for Varsho instead and Bellinger stays in LF. A guy like Taylor fits so perfectly as the 4th OF on the roster it's almost a crime he hasn't been signed yet. The myriad of IF/OF options that exist on the Jays bench really dont make signing a full platoon for LF necessary at all.

 

As for 3b... f***ed if I know. If it's not Chappy at the same kind of too many years and too many dollars deal like Bellinger will get, what else is there?

 

As a last resort maybe you throw Lopez, Orelvis, Leo Jimenez, Clement, Schneider, Biggio and Barger at 3B all ST long until you figure out which guy(s) can hold it down well enough with some kind of rotation. Hell maybe they rotate all of them through 2B, 3B and LF until they find a rental trade, just to keep costs down so they can go after Soto or Bregman in the next FA period, just like the Dodgers did last offseason.

Edited December 21, 2023 by John_Havok

[Spanky__99]

Did we think Belt in 2023 was going to produce 2.3 WAR for 9M? Or KK 2.2 WAR for $9M? Sometimes you have to make those types of signings to fill out your MLB roster. Sometimes you get lucky and they work out or sometimes they don't.

 

Which platoon option in LF do you think could work? Throw out some names and offer to the discussion at least. I agree that going with Gallo + Taylor or another platoon combination in LF might not pan out. It very well could or it might not.

 

Atkins gets so much praise around here for signing Belt and KK last offseason. Though now nobody wants him to make those types of moves or FA signings which is ironic. Obviously Gallo/Taylor or whatever platoon they decide for LF isn't going to be the highlight of their offseason. Go out and sign Hoskins or JDM for $18-20M to be your DH and trade for a solid 3B. You can't have a perfect roster all around. There are definitely some intriguing pieces in LF who could be bounce back candidates and buy low options as FA's, so why not try to target those types of players for LF if that is the last area to address?

 

I'm all up for signing someone like Teo or Soler, but do we really want to commit to them for 3 to 4 years at close to $18M each season, when that ties up potential funds next offseason from signing a more elite FA like Soto or Bregman? We could very well sign Chapman, Bellinger and/or one of Teo or Soler, but then count the Jays out on Soto, Bregman, Wheeler or Fried next offseason.

 

I was fine with your post till the bolded part, then I had the similar chuckle I always do... who the f*** brought up Atkins in this context? And who has said one year contracts are not on the menu? Hence, tinyviolin.gif. *followed by some posters*

[max silver]

I was fine with your post till the bolded part, then I had the similar chuckle I always do... who the f*** brought up Atkins in this context? And who has said one year contracts are not on the menu? Hence, tinyviolin.gif. *followed by some posters*

 

This is obviously a case where jaysblue erred in thinking that he could really show it to the Atkins Bootlickers TM for once and for all, but his argument was quickly picked apart like usual.

[max silver]

I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory they need to bring in a full platoon for LF. Biggio can already play out there if needed, as can Schneider (kinda), Otto Lopez, and apparently both Barger and Orelvis are being tagged as 2b/OF guys rather than 3b according to Sorrow, the poster who's friend gives him all kinds of seemingly credible inside info. Getting both sides of a platoon for LF seems unnecessary to me.

 

First step, get Michael A Taylor as your 4th OF, then sign the best starting LF you can, regardless of handedness. I think it's Bellinger, and I will likely hate the dollars and years, but he doesn't need a platoon partner, and if a tough lefty comes in and you don't want both Belli and Varsho in the lineup, Taylor goes in for Varsho instead and Bellinger stays in LF. A guy like Taylor fits so perfectly as the 4th OF on the roster it's almost a crime he hasn't been signed yet. The myriad of IF/OF options that exist on the Jays bench really dont make signing a full platoon for LF necessary at all.

 

As for 3b... f***ed if I know. If it's not Chappy at the same kind of too many years and too many dollars deal like Bellinger will get, what else is there?

 

I'd be interested in signing Bellinger (assuming he comes at a reduced cost compared to present) and Teoscar this offseason. I think Teoscar is a good candidate to bounce back in 2024 as he posted dramatically different home/road splits. He posted the best defensive metrics of his career last season as well, so he could provide a little diversity to the club in a combined DH/OF role.

 

I'm also a big fan of the idea of signing Taylor as 4th outfielder as well. He's just too perfect for this roster as a guy who would likely provide great defence across the outfield with a bat just a little below league average. My only potential concern is the sizable increase in his k level.

[Spanky__99]

This is obviously a case where jaysblue erred in thinking that he could really show it to the Atkins Bootlickers TM for once and for all, but his argument was quickly picked apart like usual.

 

Enough to drive a man, nuts!

[wamco]

Did we think Belt in 2023 was going to produce 2.3 WAR for 9M? Or KK 2.2 WAR for $9M? Sometimes you have to make those types of signings to fill out your MLB roster. Sometimes you get lucky and they work out or sometimes they don't.

 

Which platoon option in LF do you think could work? Throw out some names and offer to the discussion at least. I agree that going with Gallo + Taylor or another platoon combination in LF might not pan out. It very well could or it might not.

 

Frankie Cat and Reed Johnson

[John_Havok]

I'd be interested in signing Bellinger (assuming he comes at a reduced cost compared to present) and Teoscar this offseason. I think Teoscar is a good candidate to bounce back in 2024 as he posted dramatically different home/road splits. He posted the best defensive metrics of his career last season as well, so he could provide a little diversity to the club in a combined DH/OF role.

 

I'm also a big fan of the idea of signing Taylor as 4th outfielder as well. He's just too perfect for this roster as a guy who would likely provide great defence across the outfield with a bat just a little below league average. My only potential concern is the sizable increase in his k level.

 

I edited a my thoughts a few times, check it again and see if it makes sense to ya. I honestly think if they strike out on Bellinger, they might just grab Taylor and sit on their hands.

[Abomination]

It's hard to really know how good a fit Gallo is because the team has so many holes, and it really does depend how they're filled. They currently need an everyday LF, a 4th OF, and an everyday 3B. If they go into camp with Gallo looking like the best LF option, that's not ideal. But he's pretty interesting as a cheap 4th OF if they get someone better for LF.

 

What about Lantigua for the 4th outfielder? He has a good eye and doesn't strike out much, can steal some bases, and last year played every position except 1st and C.

[philly30]

Looks like Toronto's on the outside looking in...

 

So is every team outside of NY OR LA, until there is an international draft this is what is going to happen more and more, these players will pick NY OR LA teams, maybe Boston. Cities like Toronto and Philly have no chance

[Spanky__99]

So is every team outside of NY OR LA, until there is an international draft this is what is going to happen more and more, these players will pick NY OR LA teams, maybe Boston. Cities like Toronto and Philly have no chance

 

Honestly, I thought they were going to get that done in the last CBA, but it fell through.

[John_Havok]

So is every team outside of NY OR LA, until there is an international draft this is what is going to happen more and more, these players will pick NY OR LA teams, maybe Boston. Cities like Toronto and Philly have no chance

 

An international draft doesn't solve anything to so with free agents from Japan or Korea who come over in their mid to late 20's.

 

The only thing it COULD do is get those players over here when they are 18, but then MLB would have to have agreements with both the KBO and Japan's pro baseball that players from their home countries would have to exclude themselves from their home countries drafts. I tremendously doubt that kind of an agreement will happen anytime soon. There's too much money at stake in Japan.

 

Side note, if one takes the Ohtani deal and converts it to Japanese currency, it's worth 100 billion yen.

[Jimcanuck]

There must be a better way though. The current posting system heavily favours the richer teams.

[John_Havok]

There must be a better way though. The current posting system heavily favours the richer teams.

 

So does the current free agent system. It's just a fact of life and reality. Without a hard salary cap virtually everything favours the rich teams in the long run.

[Jimcanuck]

So does the current free agent system. It's just a fact of life and reality. Without a hard salary cap virtually everything favours the rich teams in the long run.

 

I don't mine the free agent system. Big market teams generally are worse off for it.

 

Teams should have a relative equal chance at newcomers to MLB.

 

Also not a fact of life, but something that can be revised.

[glory]

I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory they need to bring in a full platoon for LF. Biggio can already play out there if needed, as can Schneider (kinda), Otto Lopez, and apparently both Barger and Orelvis are being tagged as 2b/OF guys rather than 3b according to Sorrow, the poster who's friend gives him all kinds of seemingly credible inside info. Getting both sides of a platoon for LF seems unnecessary to me.

 

First step, get Michael A Taylor as your 4th OF, then sign the best starting LF you can, regardless of handedness. I think it's Bellinger, and I will likely hate the dollars and years, but he doesn't need a platoon partner, and if a tough lefty comes in and you don't want both Belli and Varsho in the lineup, Taylor goes in for Varsho instead and Bellinger stays in LF. A guy like Taylor fits so perfectly as the 4th OF on the roster it's almost a crime he hasn't been signed yet. The myriad of IF/OF options that exist on the Jays bench really dont make signing a full platoon for LF necessary at all.

 

As for 3b... f***ed if I know. If it's not Chappy at the same kind of too many years and too many dollars deal like Bellinger will get, what else is there?

 

As a last resort maybe you throw Lopez, Orelvis, Leo Jimenez, Clement, Schneider, Biggio and Barger at 3B all ST long until you figure out which guy(s) can hold it down well enough with some kind of rotation. Hell maybe they rotate all of them through 2B, 3B and LF until they find a rental trade, just to keep costs down so they can go after Soto or Bregman in the next FA period, just like the Dodgers did last offseason.

 

I don't think the Jays can afford to keep the costs down and try again next winter mainly due to their window. Over the next 5 years, the next 2 seasons are likely the highest they'll be on the win curve. They really can't afford to punt 2024. That's why even though it's a bad idea, I can at least understand the interest in Bellinger. The problem is they are trying for a home run in a market where (with no Ohtani/Soto), the best they can do is a double. It's a s***** spot to be in. Unfortunately I think it means they kinda have to bring Chapman back. After him the 3B options in free agency/trade are simply not there unless they pull off a surprise trade for a player no one here thinks is available. They could sign someone like Teoscar and get a 2-3 WAR in LF so I don't think missing out on Bellinger (who is probably closer to that level, especially if he's not playing CF) would be as costly.

 

That's why as I said before the best route to take, which will by far be the less sexy route, is to do what they did last season. Move with the assumption that the Vlad, Bo, Kirk, Springer, Gausman, etc, core is good enough on its own and supplement that core with short term vets. Live or die with Vlad/Bo.

[Key22]

I don't mine the free agent system. Big market teams generally are worse off for it.

 

Teams should have a relative equal chance at newcomers to MLB.

 

Also not a fact of life, but something that can be revised.

 

They could adjust some of this - the posting fee should count against the luxury tax divided by the contract terms - if the player signs a 10 year deal and the posting fee is $50m it should add $5m per year to the contract - if the player opts out in year 7 then the remain posting fee should go with the player to the next team.

 

The big market teams will still do it but it does make them think a little bit and does add more tax to the lower revenue teams.

 

Or if you sign one international player to an over $100m contract you can't sign another for the next 3 seasons. Or make the luxury tax punishments tougher - like if you spend beyond the top threshold - you lose ALL of your draft picks for the next two seasons. If you do it a second year in a row you lose all of your draft picks for the next ten seasons. And get a $25m fine paid to EACH team below the threshold and your team owner and GM gets a kick in the nuts.

[jaysblue]

I was fine with your post till the bolded part, then I had the similar chuckle I always do... who the f*** brought up Atkins in this context? And who has said one year contracts are not on the menu? Hence, tinyviolin.gif. *followed by some posters*

 

What are you bickering about now? Again you try to create confrontations and arguments around here for no reason.

 

Atkins has proven to do a very solid job at signing 1-year stopgap solutions such as with Semien, Ray, and last offseason with Belt and KK. I trust that him and the FO could make similar signings this offseason again, whether its with someone like Hoskins and/or someone like Gallo/Meadows for LF etc. Bellinger would be a nice signing if him and Boras drop their demands and their asking price becomes more reasonable, but I just don't want to offer a blank cheque to him just because the Jays lost out on Ohtani and missed out on trading for Soto.

[L54]

Did we think Belt in 2023 was going to produce 2.3 WAR for 9M? Or KK 2.2 WAR for $9M? Sometimes you have to make those types of signings to fill out your MLB roster. Sometimes you get lucky and they work out or sometimes they don't.

 

Which platoon option in LF do you think could work? Throw out some names and offer to the discussion at least. I agree that going with Gallo + Taylor or another platoon combination in LF might not pan out. It very well could or it might not.

 

Atkins gets so much praise around here for signing Belt and KK last offseason. Though now nobody wants him to make those types of moves or FA signings which is ironic. Obviously Gallo/Taylor or whatever platoon they decide for LF isn't going to be the highlight of their offseason. Go out and sign Hoskins or JDM for $18-20M to be your DH and trade for a solid 3B. You can't have a perfect roster all around. There are definitely some intriguing pieces in LF who could be bounce back candidates and buy low options as FA's, so why not try to target those types of players for LF if that is the last area to address?

 

I'm all up for signing someone like Teo or Soler, but do we really want to commit to them for 3 to 4 years at close to $18M each season, when that ties up potential funds next offseason from signing a more elite FA like Soto or Bregman? We could very well sign Chapman, Bellinger and/or one of Teo or Soler, but then count the Jays out on Soto, Bregman, Wheeler or Fried next offseason.

 

Who said they have to have a perfect roster all around? Who is praising Atkins? Who said you can’t target buy low options for LF? Who said to sign Teo or Soler for 4/72?

[jaysblue]

Toronto is not the most desirable location. Forgoing whats available now and taking their chances on what *might* be available next offseason is probably not prudent. One, two, or even all four of those potential free agents after the 2024 season may be signed before the Jays can even make an offer.

 

So does that justify signing Bellinger to over $200M and/or signing Chapman to over $100M?

[L54]

Every single Jays blue post

 

Sign player X. It could work out but it might not. But I don’t have a crystal ball so I don’t know but don’t tell me it won’t work because how do YOU know?

 

Cover your bases in every single post so nobody can ever come back and say you said something wrong. Very strange tbh

[L54]

So does that justify signing Bellinger to over $200M and/or signing Chapman to over $100M?

 

No better sign Joey Gallo and Michael A Taylor so that the Yankees can give Soto 400M next offseason but hey at least we tried!!

[jaysblue]

Every single Jays blue post

 

Sign player X. It could work out but it might not. But I don’t have a crystal ball so I don’t know but don’t tell me it won’t work because how do YOU know?

 

Cover your bases in every single post so nobody can ever come back and say you said something wrong. Very strange tbh

 

Why don't you start throwing some names out there and brainstorming rather than criticizing only?

 

Heck, even when I suggested back in October or earlier in the offseason that San Diego could be looking to move some players to shake things up like Soto and possibly Machado/Tatis, you said those ideas were ridiculous.

[L54]

Why don't you start throwing some names out there and brainstorming rather than criticizing only?

 

Heck, even when I suggested back in October or earlier in the offseason that San Diego could be looking to move some players to shake things up like Soto and possibly Machado/Tatis, you said those ideas were ridiculous.

 

I said they wouldn’t trade Soto for Vlad

[jaysblue]

No better sign Joey Gallo and Michael A Taylor so that the Yankees can give Soto 400M next offseason but hey at least we tried!!

 

Why don't you offer up some names or potential stopgap targets?

[jaysblue]

I said they wouldn’t trade Soto for Vlad

 

Did I say Vlad would be traded straight up for Soto?

[jaysblue]

I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory they need to bring in a full platoon for LF. Biggio can already play out there if needed, as can Schneider (kinda), Otto Lopez, and apparently both Barger and Orelvis are being tagged as 2b/OF guys rather than 3b according to Sorrow, the poster who's friend gives him all kinds of seemingly credible inside info. Getting both sides of a platoon for LF seems unnecessary to me.

 

First step, get Michael A Taylor as your 4th OF, then sign the best starting LF you can, regardless of handedness. I think it's Bellinger, and I will likely hate the dollars and years, but he doesn't need a platoon partner, and if a tough lefty comes in and you don't want both Belli and Varsho in the lineup, Taylor goes in for Varsho instead and Bellinger stays in LF. A guy like Taylor fits so perfectly as the 4th OF on the roster it's almost a crime he hasn't been signed yet. The myriad of IF/OF options that exist on the Jays bench really dont make signing a full platoon for LF necessary at all.

 

As for 3b... f***ed if I know. If it's not Chappy at the same kind of too many years and too many dollars deal like Bellinger will get, what else is there?

 

As a last resort maybe you throw Lopez, Orelvis, Leo Jimenez, Clement, Schneider, Biggio and Barger at 3B all ST long until you figure out which guy(s) can hold it down well enough with some kind of rotation. Hell maybe they rotate all of them through 2B, 3B and LF until they find a rental trade, just to keep costs down so they can go after Soto or Bregman in the next FA period, just like the Dodgers did last offseason.

 

Aren't Schneider and Biggio most likely heading into 2024 at 2B? Yeah the other guys you mentioned are nice depth options, but I wouldn't write in their names as starters just yet. Doesn't hurt to sign some FA's who you think could bounce back and provide value to cheap one-year deals. If they don't work out, then you have Lopez, Barger and Orelvis who you could bring up.

 

Taylor definitely would be a nice add as a 4th outfielder, agreed. I don't think Bellinger should be offered a blank cheque however because the Jays lost out on Ohtani. Like Max said, if they lower their demands and his contract could be similar to Springer's or maybe a bit more, then not a problem.

 

Yeah 3B is really the black hole on this team right now. Trade market seems like the best route. Adames would be nice if the Brewers are open to moving him. Bregman would be my target next offseason for sure.

[Jimcanuck]

So does that justify signing Bellinger to over $200M and/or signing Chapman to over $100M?

 

It destroys your suggestion the Jays should save their cash and wait until next year.

[L54]

Why don't you offer up some names or potential stopgap targets?

 

If I’m going cheap I’m bringing in Tommy Pham. Should be a one year deal less than 10M.

 

Teoscar would be my next choice. He’d be more expensive but might take a one year prove it deal.

 

I like Michael Brantley but he’s always hurt. Probably need to stay away

 

Adam Duvall is a guy I would bring in cheap too

 

I’m starting to hope they sign Bellinger because I’m scared if they don’t they’ll sign Chappy instead