General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Stangstag]

 

First time in my life I've seen an opposing team's fan propose a deal which I think is an overpay lol

 

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat

[BTS]

Well, yeah. Everyone legitimately thought he was going to be a superstar. Like if Ryan Braun was a plus 3B and stuck there.

 

Good lord Lawrie's 2011 was monstrous. 163 wRC+ in AAA at 21 years old then a 157 wRC+ in the majors, all with contact and walks and a +13 UZR/150 at 3B in the majors.

 

He looked like a 7 WAR player.

 

For him to do THAT and then immediately become a mediocre fielding, slap hitting 2B was such a letdown. He played down to his physical talent floor because of makeup issues and a 75 IQ (if we are generous).

 

That monstrous 2011 earned him a 2nd round pick in the original DDL dispersal draft.

 

My god the buyer's remorse.

[glory]

Seems the Jansen/Nootbaar talk has surfaced because of (who else) Morosi talking about it on MLB Network.

 

 

I doubt the Cardinals make that deal, but at least Morosi is talking about a deal that benefits the Jays this time, which is better than him trying to make Teoscar for Flexen seem like a fair deal a few weeks ago.

[Laika]

The scuttlebutt for the Cardinals is that they will want a strong defensive catcher, leader type. For obvious Yadier Molina reasons.

 

This means Contreras is probably not their preference. It seems like they will try for Sean Murphy first. If they can't get him, Jansen might actually be their preference over Kirk for the above reasons. And they may not have a ton of interest in Moreno.

[Omar]

Seems like more than a few teams may be in on Bellinger and maybe driving his ticket price up. This may motivate Atkins to go the trade route for an outfielder. I thought for sure we were going to get arms in return for a deal involving one of our catchers but the ground maybe shifting on that. I’m bullish on Nootbar. Get it done Ross.

[Brownie19]

Sean Murphy is really good. A's would get haul for him.

[The_DH]

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat

 

I think I might as well. Not as sure about giving up Cimber as well, kind of expected we'd receive something with Nootbaar.

[THANOS]

 

First time in my life I've seen an opposing team's fan propose a deal which I think is an overpay lol

 

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat

 

Easily, in a heartbeat for sure.

 

Nootbar has 5 years of control, Jansen only 2.

[Ehjays]

Easily, in a heartbeat for sure.

 

Nootbar has 5 years of control, Jansen only 2.

 

https://theathletic.com/3951194/2022/11/29/mlb-free-agent-rumors-padres-astros/

 

Cardinals GM John Mozeliak, in a telephone conversation Tuesday, made it clear the team’s No. 1 priority is acquiring an everyday catcher. Asked about the possibility of adding a shortstop, Mozeliak said, “Tommy Edman is a very, very good shortstop.”

 

Mozeliak allowed that a change in the marketplace could prompt him to adjust at short, but it’s doubtful he could strike a bargain in free agency or in a trade. As for the outfield, Mozeliak said the Cardinals have numerous options, describing top prospect Jordan Walker “as the biggest wild card.” He did not rule out a veteran addition, but such a player likely would be a backup behind Tyler O’Neill, Dylan Carlson and Lars Nootbaar.

[Brownie19]

I think I might as well. Not as sure about giving up Cimber as well, kind of expected we'd receive something with Nootbaar.

 

highly unlikely we'd get Nootbaar + given he has 3 more years of control.

[Ehjays]

[The_DH]

I got the feeling the likelihood of Nootbaar's future was not necessarily as good as Janssen's. Either way, I'd still do the trade.

[Deadpool]

highly unlikely we'd get Nootbaar + given he has 3 more years of control.

 

There are aspects to value other than years of control. Janssen is a good bet to be a very solid catcher on both sides of the ball, with the caveat that he has been injury prone. Both of those things affect his value more than his years of control do.

 

Also, I probably do the trade, but I'd try to move a prospect instead of Cimber, because of where the team is right now.

[Captain_Obvious]

highly unlikely we'd get Nootbaar + given he has 3 more years of control.

 

I would be very happy for Nootbaar straight for Jansen. This is good and fair value back.

[Brownie19]

There are aspects to value other than years of control. Janssen is a good bet to be a very solid catcher on both sides of the ball, with the caveat that he has been injury prone. Both of those things affect his value more than his years of control do.

 

Also, I probably do the trade, but I'd try to move a prospect instead of Cimber, because of where the team is right now.

 

Yeah I'm good with that. I'm super curious to see if the Cards value Carlson a lot higher than they do Nootbaar. Cards don't really need/want prospects I suspect, but would people oppose to Jansen + Orelvis for Carlson? Maybe Orelvis no longer moves the needle.

[Laika]

There are aspects to value other than years of control. Janssen is a good bet to be a very solid catcher on both sides of the ball, with the caveat that he has been injury prone. Both of those things affect his value more than his years of control do.

 

Also, I probably do the trade, but I'd try to move a prospect instead of Cimber, because of where the team is right now.

 

yes + Nootbar was kind of a nothing prospect who looked like a bench player until 2022.

 

his trade value isn't necessarily going to be as high as, say, a ranked prospect with the same projections + years of control.

[Captain_Obvious]

yes + Nootbar was kind of a nothing prospect who looked like a bench player until 2022.

 

his trade value isn't necessarily going to be as high as, say, a ranked prospect with the same projections + years of control.

 

If Nootbaar was not a nothing prospect, nobody would think that Jansen could fetch him. The lack of track record adds a potential sell-high element to the Cardinals. His future outcomes have high variance, but I am a total sucker for someone who is 98 percentile in BB%.

[Laika]

If Nootbaar was not a nothing prospect, nobody would think that Jansen could fetch him. The lack of track record adds a potential sell-high element to the Cardinals. His future outcomes have high variance, but I am a total sucker for someone who is 98 percentile in BB%.

 

I f***ing love him

 

98th BB%

89th MaxEV

85th Barrel%

 

Sprint and OAA both good

f***ing chase and whiff rates are good

 

swoooooooooooooooooon

[Brownie19]

I f***ing love him

 

98th BB%

89th MaxEV

85th Barrel%

 

Sprint and OAA both good

f***ing chase and whiff rates are good

 

swoooooooooooooooooon

 

He's kind of like Biggio - but with actual power.

[Stangstag]

He's kind of like Biggio - but with actual power.

 

Its like Biggio and Derek Fisher had a kid. Or Travis Snider with eyes if you prefer that

[FantasyNewb]

Nootbar is going to disappoint quite a few people here.

[Captain_Obvious]

Nootbar is going to disappoint quite a few people here.

 

That is a very real possibility. But this possibility is what might make him available without trading Kirk or Moreno.

[Spanky99]

Nootbar is going to disappoint quite a few people here.

 

This is how I feel... the last season and stats argue otherwise, but I think the risk and depth makes sense in a trade of Jano and him. I just don't seem to get a good feeling about it, as yourself. This is just a random fans' tweet anyhow. Doesn't sound like Mozeliak is moving him.

[WryNGinger]

This mgmt team went after bounce back and "stats might mean a breakthrough " type players last off-season. If the value is there yhwn I really want them to commit to more proven players this year. More weighted towards the Merrifields vs the Tapias

[wamco]

Can nootbar play better cf than springer?

I’d so, I swap Jansen for him. I also would like to keep Cimber and give them some combination of merryweather and richards.

Leo Jimenez is a guy who I’m afraid won’t ever hit enough to excite me so I’d throw him in some deal If needed.

I fear Pearson may be in a trade potentially as team seemed much more eager to show him off in aaa and afl than on mlb roster at end of year.

Could have helped in game 2

[Laika]

Can nootbar play better cf than springer?

I’d so, I swap Jansen for him. I also would like to keep Cimber and give them some combination of merryweather and richards.

Leo Jimenez is a guy who I’m afraid won’t ever hit enough to excite me so I’d throw him in some deal If needed.

I fear Pearson may be in a trade potentially as team seemed much more eager to show him off in aaa and afl than on mlb roster at end of year.

Could have helped in game 2

 

No, he probably can't.

 

Nootaar was a +7.5 OF in 2022 playing mostly RF. Even if that is his true talent, the assumption based on positional adjustments is that he'd be a -2.5 CF.

There is also a small sample size there. We don't have a lot of confidence in his defensive true talent.

 

Springer is +1.5 in CF in his career and close to 0 in his last two seasons.

 

This is the only kind of bad thing with Nootbaar being the solution. Toronto reallllly wants to bring in a slick CF and move George to RF. Nootbaar is not the guy to cause that move. Nootbaar is a good fielding RF though, in all likelihood.

[Stangstag]

No, he probably can't.

 

Nootaar was a +7.5 OF in 2022 playing mostly RF. Even if that is his true talent, the assumption based on positional adjustments is that he'd be a -2.5 CF.

There is also a small sample size there. We don't have a lot of confidence in his defensive true talent.

 

Springer is +1.5 in CF in his career and close to 0 in his last two seasons.

 

This is the only kind of bad thing with Nootbaar being the solution. Toronto reallllly wants to bring in a slick CF and move George to RF. Nootbaar is not the guy to cause that move. Nootbaar is a good fielding RF though, in all likelihood.

 

Noot + Bellinger/Keirmaier would be nice

 

Rotate Springer/Gurriel through the DH spot

[Brownie19]

No, he probably can't.

 

Nootaar was a +7.5 OF in 2022 playing mostly RF. Even if that is his true talent, the assumption based on positional adjustments is that he'd be a -2.5 CF.

There is also a small sample size there. We don't have a lot of confidence in his defensive true talent.

 

Springer is +1.5 in CF in his career and close to 0 in his last two seasons.

 

This is the only kind of bad thing with Nootbaar being the solution. Toronto reallllly wants to bring in a slick CF and move George to RF. Nootbaar is not the guy to cause that move. Nootbaar is a good fielding RF though, in all likelihood.

 

This is probably true and the Cards probably don't want to part with Carlson for the same reasons. I think the 'true' CF's reside in Arizona...but they may cost us Kirk or Moreno unfortunately.

[Ehjays]

Winter meetings start Sunday. Hopefully thats when the flood gates open and the offseason starts to have some action.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/the-opener-catchers-judge-shortstop-market.html

 

Catcher market heating up?

 

It’s not a particularly deep catching market in free agency this year, with Willson Contreras and Christian Vazquez headlining, but the trade market offers some strong options for catcher-hungry teams. Yesterday, it was reported that the Astros are planning to meet with Contreras at the Winter Meetings, per Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic, and Jon Morosi of MLB Network reports that the Guardians are showing continued interest in Oakland catcher Sean Murphy, who appears highly likely to be dealt. His three years of remaining club control and strong offensive and defensive prowess makes him a sought-after target, and a robust market has developed. Morosi suggested a deal could be done during the Winter Meetings, and teams that miss out on Murphy could quickly pivot to one of the top free agents, while the Blue Jays are expected to deal one of Danny Jansen, Alejandro Kirk or Gabriel Moreno this winter.

[Laika]

This is probably true and the Cards probably don't want to part with Carlson for the same reasons. I think the 'true' CF's reside in Arizona...but they may cost us Kirk or Moreno unfortunately.

 

Cards' CF situation is fine but a bit awkard

 

By talent their CF depth chart might go: O'Neill, then Nootbaar = Carlson

 

But by playing time it might go more like Carlson, then O'Neill, then Nootbaar

 

So yeah. I dunno!