General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2021)

[G-Snarls]

I don’t think Ryu is going to get a playoff start unless he really turns it around in his next 2 outings. It will really depend how the final games of the season go. If we need Ray or Berriors for Game 162, Game 163 just to get into the playoffs they have to be used. Best case scenario we don’t need to play those types of games. Just have Ray for the Wild Card Game. And Berriors to start Game 1 of the ALDS.

 

It's crazy

 

A year ago Ryu was the only starter we weren't afraid to send out there

 

Now he's 4th at best. It's a shame he's had such a rough go.

[Jimcanuck]

Ray

Berrios

Manoah

Matz

Ryu

Striploin

 

As of right now

[Spanky99]

Ray

Berrios

Manoah

Matz

Ryu

Striploin

 

As of right now

 

Jays insider ^^^

[keggy]

Grichuk is being used exactly as his performance warrants, a weak side platoon and defensive replacement.

 

Don't let a 15 PA blip fool you into investing more PAs into a proven out factory like Grichuk.

[Jimcanuck]

Jays insider ^^^

 

Correct, I have a number of contacts in the org.

[Jonn]

Grichuk is being used exactly as his performance warrants, a weak side platoon and defensive replacement.

 

Don't let a 15 PA blip fool you into investing more PAs into a proven out factory like Grichuk.

 

Sure if the platoon partner warranted the playing time in his place. He does not.

[Spanky99]

Correct, I have a number of contacts in the org.

 

Redub it; Not a one.

[Daniel Labude]

[max silver]

 

That's very cool. I hope that eventually Statcast can include metrics like arm speed and bat speed as well.

[Spanky99]

Correct, I have a number of contacts in the org.

 

Funny thing is I see as you don't, my boys and the Birds move on.

[Spanky99]

 

This really is cool s***, thanks bud.

[Spanky99]

That's very cool. I hope that eventually Statcast can include metrics like arm speed and bat speed as well.

 

They have it, just not for us yet, lol.

[BigCecil]

Ryu has picked a bad time to suck. But what’s changed? He seems healthy. What V he has is there. If it’s lost command on location thats probably correctable. Arm speed on change? Issue is right now there is no room to throw out a starter who is shelled while they work through it. Hard to have any faith in him now. After the lead off walk to Sano last night it was all downhill.

[Laika]

Ryu has picked a bad time to suck. But what’s changed? He seems healthy. What V he has is there. If it’s lost command on location thats probably correctable. Arm speed on change? Issue is right now there is no room to throw out a starter who is shelled while they work through it. Hard to have any faith in him now. After the lead off walk to Sano last night it was all downhill.

 

Spin decline?

 

I haven't seen anybody actually look into it

[John_Havok]

Spin decline?

 

I haven't seen anybody actually look into it

 

Anecdotally from his recent starts, I’ve noticed his curveball is completely trash, no command of it at all, so that’s one key pitch that missing from his arsenal and when you’re his type of pitcher, you k8nda need them all. 90 mph fastball, 87mph cutter and a change isn’t enough unless they’re all pinpoint.

 

I don’t know where to look to get his spin rates on a game by game basis either.

[Jimcanuck]

A similar pitcher that has been getting hammered since the sticky crackdown is Kyle Hendricks.

 

Of course its lazy to mention the sticky crackdown, pitcher struggles will happen, sticky or not.

[RustyTrombone]

His spin rates have been steady through the whole season. No real dips. His curve is actually up a tiny bit from earlier in the season. I think this is more of a location issue with him. His barrel % has spiked in September and I think the number 1 culprit for that is pitch location. No pitcher can survive if he throws meatball after meatball down the middle. What makes it even worse is Ryus pitches are pretty s***** as a whole. His stuff is below average at best so he has to live on the corners and he's still throwing strikes but they are such low quality strikes that he gets banged around throwing his s***** 90 poo and flat 87 cutter.

[King]

Anecdotally from his recent starts, I’ve noticed his curveball is completely trash, no command of it at all, so that’s one key pitch that missing from his arsenal and when you’re his type of pitcher, you k8nda need them all. 90 mph fastball, 87mph cutter and a change isn’t enough unless they’re all pinpoint.

 

I don’t know where to look to get his spin rates on a game by game basis either.

 

Baseball savant, bro.

[John_Havok]

Baseball savant, bro.

 

Yeah I know it's there, I just cant find it from a game to game perspective.

 

One thing I did see though, he's completely abandoned the sinker this year. So instead of 5 pitches, he's down to 4. That may not explain the last 4 starts because he's ditched it all year, but ... it is curious.

[King]

Yeah I know it's there, I just cant find it from a game to game perspective.

 

One thing I did see though, he's completely abandoned the sinker this year. So instead of 5 pitches, he's down to 4. That may not explain the last 4 starts because he's ditched it all year, but ... it is curious.

It's on his player page, sort from season to game.

[John_Havok]

Cursory check with no math done indicates no real change in spin rates on any of his 4 pitches, except his curve - which is actually spinning slightly more than it was at the start of the season by about 100 rpm.

[Olerud363]

Cursory check with no math done indicates no real change in spin rates on any of his 4 pitches, except his curve - which is actually spinning slightly more than it was at the start of the season by about 100 rpm.

 

Tipping pitches? Twins have a "system"? Probably not, when he hangs curve balls in the middle of the plate it looks that way, but probably not.

[John_Havok]

K, here's Ryu's spin #s this season. 1st half vs second half, used cutoff date of July 1 for the start of second half which is 14 starts, 1st half is 15 starts.

 

Curve spin 2nd half 2554.428571

Curve spin 1st half 2459.133333

 

4seam FB spin 2nd half 1953.071429

4seam FB spin 1st half 1930.733333

 

Cutter spin 2nd half 2004.928571

Cutter spin 1st half 1978.066667

 

Change Spin 2nd half 1550.642857

Change Spin 1st half 1484.933333

[Jonn]

I had a dream last night that Ryu struggles into next year. We end up releasing him. He resigns with the Dodgers and is great for them while we pay the bill. Now how realistic is that scenario is the scary part.

[King]

I had a dream last night that Ryu struggles into next year. We end up releasing him. He resigns with the Dodgers and is great for them while we pay the bill. Now how realistic is that scenario is the scary part.

Not realistic. Ryu would have to enter unrosterable territory for him to be released. He hasn't even been bad as a whole, just average, and inconsistent.

[King]

K, here's Ryu's spin #s this season. 1st half vs second half, used cutoff date of July 1 for the start of second half which is 14 starts, 1st half is 15 starts.

 

Curve spin 2nd half 2554.428571

Curve spin 1st half 2459.133333

 

4seam FB spin 2nd half 1953.071429

4seam FB spin 1st half 1930.733333

 

Cutter spin 2nd half 2004.928571

Cutter spin 1st half 1978.066667

 

Change Spin 2nd half 1550.642857

Change Spin 1st half 1484.933333

 

Time to start limiting him to two times through the order per start. If he can make it that far.

[John_Havok]

Ryu's pitch mix and results from the last few years. Couple things definitely stand out

 

[Jimcanuck]

Yes the whiff rate changes from 2020 to 2021 are significant

 

Tipping the pitches or a command issue

[glory]

I had a dream last night that Ryu struggles into next year. We end up releasing him. He resigns with the Dodgers and is great for them while we pay the bill. Now how realistic is that scenario is the scary part.

 

Is Ryu tradeable at 2/40? Considering teams didn’t want him for more than 3 years when he was a FA, probably not, but I have a bad feeling he’s going to be mediocre the rest of his contract. Hopefully I’m wrong on that.

[Buster]

Yes the whiff rate changes from 2020 to 2021 are significant

 

Tipping the pitches or a command issue

 

From the sounds of it, he also has never seemed interested in working with the coaching. Scouts his own game. Calls his own game. I doubt he has a lot of interest in Pete Walker helping him with something mechanical.