Around Baseball 2021

[Laika]

I thought of that as a straight up, trade. Would you do it?

 

I dunno, I'd be hesitant. Can Adam Frazier play a good third?

[saskjayfan]

I didn't say not too, and that salary is exactly why I said he could be worth a pot of gold. You're not suggesting Kirk as a lottery ticket are you?

 

Kirk's almost a sure thing in my mind. I love that kid. No way I'm trading Kirk for a 2 year gamble on Taillon. I'm thinking more of a Pardinho for Taillon straight up.

[Spanky__99]

Kirk's almost a sure thing in my mind. I love that kid. No way I'm trading Kirk for a 2 year gamble on Taillon. I'm thinking more of a Pardinho for Taillon straight up.

 

Pardinho and Adams, maybe.

[Deadpool]

Kirk's almost a sure thing in my mind. I love that kid. No way I'm trading Kirk for a 2 year gamble on Taillon. I'm thinking more of a Pardinho for Taillon straight up.

 

Does that get it done? I'm not sure it does, but I'd probably do i. I don't have a lot of faith in Pardinho ever being an impact guy in the majors.

[saskjayfan]

Pardinho and Adams, maybe.

 

If I include Adams can I also include Roark and 6 mil dollars too! This might actually be a great opportunity to unload Roark. The Pirates only have 40 mil on the books and they really could use an innings eater to protect young arms in a post covid shortened season.

[Laika]

Does that get it done? I'm not sure it does, but I'd probably do i. I don't have a lot of faith in Pardinho ever being an impact guy in the majors.

 

Not even close.

[Spanky__99]

I dunno, I'd be hesitant. Can Adam Frazier play a good third?

 

A whopping 26 innings... :/

[Jimcanuck]

If I include Adams can I also include Roark and 6 mil dollars too! This might actually be a great opportunity to unload Roark. The Pirates only have 40 mil on the books and they really could use an innings eater to protect young arms in a post covid shortened season.

 

Never happen. Pirates have better offers already, no doubt.

[Spanky__99]

If I include Adams can I also include Roark and 6 mil dollars too! This might actually be a great opportunity to unload Roark. The Pirates only have 40 mil on the books and they really could use an innings eater to protect young arms in a post covid shortened season.

 

What, so the Jays give Roark away and we still foot the bill for 6M?

[Spanky__99]

Never happen. Pirates have better offers already, no doubt.

 

Do they, got a link? Link bro, you gotta link? Holy f***... I need a link!!!

[saskjayfan]

What, so the Jays give Roark away and we still foot the bill for 6M?

 

I have a hard time believing Roark would get 6 mil on the open market. Still, I'll include Moreno, Pardinho and Roark and with the addition of Moreno the pirates take on Roark's full contract. Ok maybe I'll still give them 2 mil.

[saskjayfan]

The Yankees are going after Taillon. There's angst in getting a guy and after 2 tommy Johns he sucks. There's also angst that your bitter rival gets him on a ridiculous cheap salary and he's really good. Nothing would please me more than stealing Taillon from the Yankees.

[Spanky__99]

This article on the Athletic... is uhhh... interesting...

 

To cut costs, Orioles offered ‘odd’ salary deferment to Mancini, Santander

 

 

By Dan Connolly Jan 23, 2021

 

In a highly unusual and potentially alarming example of slashing expenses this winter, the Orioles asked two arbitration-eligible players to accept deferrals of a portion of their one-year salaries so the full amounts wouldn’t be on the 2021 ledger, according to multiple industry sources.

 

As part of arbitration negotiations earlier this month, sources said, the Orioles hoped to shift roughly 25 percent of the 2021 salaries for two of their best players, infielder/outfielder Trey Mancini and outfielder Anthony Santander, to 2022 and/or 2023 as a way to keep the club’s payroll down as the Orioles struggle with cashflow after a pandemic-marred season without gate receipts.

 

If the offers had been accepted, the Orioles could have removed roughly $1.5 million (of the approximate $7 million earmarked for the two players) from their expenditures in 2021.

 

Both players rejected the proposal, however, with Mancini eventually settling for $4.75 million and Santander headed toward an arbitration hearing, likely next month, when he’ll receive either $2.475 million or $2.1 million. The Orioles had eight players initially arbitration-eligible this offseason, but four settled in December and two were released/non-tendered. None of those six was presented with a potential deferral of monies, sources said.

 

How unusual is the attempt to defer money on a one-year arbitration deal?

 

Multiple agents and baseball arbitration experts were contacted for this story and none had experienced such a request.

 

One longtime agent, who was not involved in arbitration negotiations with the Orioles in 2020, said, “I have never heard of that. I’ve never even thought about that. Something like that has never been brought to me by a club in any way, shape or form.”

 

A veteran of arbitration dealings from the owners’ side said simply, “Wow. Just wow.”

 

Orioles general manager Mike Elias declined to comment for this story, as did representatives for Mancini and Santander. The Major League Baseball Players Association also declined to comment, though multiple sources said the issue was brought to the union’s attention after the offers were made by the Orioles.

 

It’s certainly a club’s prerogative to put almost anything on the table during contract negotiations, but suggesting the deferral of a portion of a one-year salary is a concerning development for an organization that has already made several moves this winter to cut expenses, including laying off or furloughing nearly 50 employees in business operations, trading veteran shortstop José Iglesias after picking up his reasonable, $3.5 million option and non-tendering productive 2020 starters Hanser Alberto and Renato Núñez.

 

The Orioles also released two members of Brandon Hyde’s staff this offseason, pitching coach Doug Brocail and third base coach José Flores, and both men said they were told by the organization that their salary — which combined for less than $500,000 — was the primary factor for their non-renewal, although other reasons for making changes were seemingly in play, too. The club has since filled both positions, though Chris Holt replaced Brocail in the majors and will simultaneously maintain his role as director of pitching for the minors, consolidating two posts into one.

 

Elias predicted heading into this offseason that some difficult financial decisions would have to be made because the Orioles, like every team, played a truncated season without any stadium revenue. Consequently, they were not alone in making significant personnel cuts or changes after the 2020 campaign ended. And, given the glacier-like pace of free agency so far this winter, the Orioles aren’t alone in not wanting to spend after a difficult 2020.

 

Elias also pointed out that the organization is still in a “talent-gathering mode” and therefore never expected this upcoming season to be one in which the club would pursue big-money free agents. Elias said in December that there was no reason for him to expect the organization would offer anyone a multi-year deal this winter.

 

Indeed, the only acquisitions the Orioles have made so far have been waiver claims, minor-league signings and the drafting of two Rule 5 pitchers. They did spend more than $5 million on international amateur signings, it was announced earlier this month.

 

If projections hold, the Orioles’ Opening Day payroll (for luxury tax purposes) should be around $60 million, which will be among the lowest in the game. That figure is somewhat misleading, though, because two players, first baseman Chris Davis and starting pitcher Alex Cobb, account for $38 million — or nearly two-thirds — of the projected 2021 salaries.

 

The Orioles have only six players expected to make at least $1 million in 2021 and potentially 20 who will be at or around the league minimum.

 

Davis, who signed a seven-year, $161 million deal in 2016, and Cobb, who is in the last season of his four-year, $57 million pact, have significant deferrals in their contracts. Davis’ original contract — before any proration — required that he be paid $3.5 million annually from 2023 to 2032 and $1.4 million annually from 2033 to 2037. Cobb’s deferral was set up for $2 million in 2022 and $1.8 million annually from 2023 to 2032.

 

The idea of deferring a chunk of a big-league contract has become somewhat standard. But as one agent put it this week, trying to do that in arbitration negotiations “is just odd.”

 

It’s especially so in Mancini’s case, considering he wasn’t asking for a raise after missing all of 2020 because of colon cancer surgery. Any pre-agreement negotiations seemed moot because, for the Orioles to take him to an arbitration hearing, they would have had to file for a pay cut — which would have been a public relations nightmare given Mancini’s popularity and inspiring cancer battle.

 

Instead, a deferment was offered and rejected, and the sides settled on the anticipated $4.75 million on Jan. 15, the deadline to exchange numbers.

 

There is one other explanation for trying to cut payroll and other expenditures as much as possible in 2021, one that never fully seems to go away.

 

“My first thought was maybe they are gearing up for a sale,” said one veteran agent.

 

That storyline occasionally surfaces, particularly with longtime owner Peter Angelos, 91, in declining health and his eldest son, John, serving as the organization’s control person with MLB.

 

The Baltimore Sun reported in October that potential ownership groups are forming in case a sale becomes a possibility. John Angelos and the Orioles have remained steadfast in the past that the club is neither for sale nor potentially on the move. And any potential sale negotiations would present more complications, including the ongoing dispute over MASN-TV rights and exorbitant capital gains taxes if sold while Peter Angelos is still alive.

 

So, any urgency in cutting — or deferring — payroll now doesn’t jibe with the reality that a sale could take years to finalize, if it were to happen at all.

 

As odd — or stunningly frugal — as the Orioles’ arbitration negotiations may have been this month, it appears the motivation of trying to defer one-year salaries could be taken, maybe, at face value:

 

After a brutal 2020, an organization that often claims to be operating on the margins is desperately looking for financial breaks in 2021.

[connorp]

The Yankees are going after Taillon. There's angst in getting a guy and after 2 tommy Johns he sucks. There's also angst that your bitter rival gets him on a ridiculous cheap salary and he's really good. Nothing would please me more than stealing Taillon from the Yankees.

 

I’m not superstitious about much but I kinda believe in Yankee magic

[max silver]

I’m not superstitious about much but I kinda believe in Yankee magic

 

They seem to have the magic pixie dust that they sprinkle onto hitters, but I don't recall them having quite as much success when it comes to starting pitchers. It definitely doesn't help that they've played in an absolute bandbox when it comes to the pitching side of the equation.

[saskjayfan]

I’m not superstitious about much but I kinda believe in Yankee magic

 

After Gio Urshela, how can anyone deny the Yankees have made a pact with the Devil..lol.

[Laika]

Ken reporting Taillon to the Yankees is done.

 

Now we wait on the details...

[Laika]

Ken reporting Taillon to the Yankees is done.

 

Now we wait on the details...

 

It SHOULD be something like Gil + another top 10 prospect. Comparable from Toronto would be Moreno straight up (he's better than Gil) or something like Hiraldo + Kloff.

[Pendleton]

It SHOULD be something like Gil + another top 10 prospect. Comparable from Toronto would be Moreno straight up (he's better than Gil) or something like Hiraldo + Kloff.

 

A few on twitter saying it's a four prospect package heading to Pittsburgh

 

[Jays24]

Dammit... Yankees did more than they were saying they would do. Went from maybe keeping DJL to keeping him and adding 2 arms to the rotation.

[Laika]

more of a bulk package

 

Jeff Passan

@JeffPassan

The New York Yankees have acquired Jameson Taillon from the Pittsburgh Pirates for Miguel Yajure, Roansy Contreras, Maikel Escotto and

Canaan Smith, sources tell ESPN.

 

Yajure and Escotto were hitting their top 10 lists though. Canaan Smith seems like a decent prospect. Roansy had some hype recently.

 

Not a horrible return for Pitt, that's four guys from the Yanks top ~20 and two from their top ~10

[Pendleton]

more of a bulk package

 

Jeff Passan

@JeffPassan

The New York Yankees have acquired Jameson Taillon from the Pittsburgh Pirates for Miguel Yajure, Roansy Contreras, Maikel Escotto and

Canaan Smith, sources tell ESPN.

 

Yajure and Escotto were hitting their top 10 lists though. Canaan Smith seems like a decent prospect. Roansy had some hype recently.

 

Not a horrible return for Pitt, that's four guys from the Yanks top ~20 and two from their top ~10

 

Canaan Smith is pretty interesting, seems like a pure hitter and built like a tank.

 

Yajure can probably be auditioned for a role in their rotation right away, though probably isn't more than a backend or mid rotation guy at best.

[connorp]

I read in an article the other day that NYY SP lead the way in projected WAR for next year. Before today obviously. Wouldn’t have guessed that

[Spanky__99]

more of a bulk package

 

Jeff Passan

@JeffPassan

The New York Yankees have acquired Jameson Taillon from the Pittsburgh Pirates for Miguel Yajure, Roansy Contreras, Maikel Escotto and

Canaan Smith, sources tell ESPN.

 

Yajure and Escotto were hitting their top 10 lists though. Canaan Smith seems like a decent prospect. Roansy had some hype recently.

 

Not a horrible return for Pitt, that's four guys from the Yanks top ~20 and two from their top ~10

 

That's pretty good.

[Pendleton]

That's pretty good.

 

Yeah I think it's a pretty solid haul for the Bucs, wouldn't all four slide into their top 20?

[BTS]

Would definitely prefer Paxton or Tanaka to giving up significant prospect capital to gamble on Taillon.

[Spanky__99]

Yeah I think it's a pretty solid haul for the Bucs, wouldn't all four slide into their top 20?

 

Yeah, or pretty close as there'll be a few graduations also.

[Spanky__99]

Would definitely prefer Paxton or Tanaka to giving up significant prospect capital to gamble on Taillon.

 

Yeah, that was more than I expected, love that for the Pirates.

[Spanky__99]

I read in an article the other day that NYY SP lead the way in projected WAR for next year. Before today obviously. Wouldn’t have guessed that

 

Yup, just shy of 5WAR on the Jays...

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=SP

[Pendleton]

Yeah, or pretty close as there'll be a few graduations also.

 

There's a plausible chance Yajure produces more value than an injured Taillon from the get go, and then the deal is a real coup for Pittsburgh

 

It's weird to see the Yankees take this route and not just pay the money for Tanaka, just seems a bit against their nature.