Kirk

[TheDragon]

f***ing Alejandro f***ing Kirk.

 

Seriously I think his height to weight ratio is at a precipice... if he gains anymore he's gonna be too top heavy and fall over all the time... I've seen this with fat dudes on my softball teams... it's absolutely hilarious.

[gruber92]

Did I miss the circle jerk at Boxy's?

[Boxcar]

Did I miss the circle jerk at Boxy's?

 

Yes

[TheDragon]

I mean it's one great game but his eye and contact rate look excellent.

[saskjayfan]

Exit velocity 97.5....The kid barrels up everything. His eye hand co-ordination is off the charts combined with good swing mechanics. This kid is a natural. I know it's an extremely small sample size, but the kid was 4 for 8 in spring training...they couldn't get him out in summer camp..now 15 PAs and only 1 strike out.

 

Cavan

Bo

Gurriel

Teoscar

Tellez

Vlad

Grichuk

Kirk

Shaw

 

If Rowdy makes it back, that lineup isn't going to be fun for whoever we play in the first round. I'd have kirk hitting 5th or 6th in my lineup, but Charlie won't do that.

[King]

So, how good is Kirk actually? Non-facetious answers appreciated

 

True talent level by wRC+... Steamer has him at 107. Would that be low or high in if he played 100 games over a season?

[Laika]

So, how good is Kirk actually? Non-facetious answers appreciated

 

True talent level by wRC+... Steamer has him at 107. Would that be low or high in if he played 100 games over a season?

 

Low. He's smelling like roses on the MLB sniff test.

Only concerns are defense + conditioning.

[Spanky__99]

So, how good is Kirk actually? Non-facetious answers appreciated

 

True talent level by wRC+... Steamer has him at 107. Would that be low or high in if he played 100 games over a season?

 

I believe that's low, kid can rake to all fields. He's definitely woke the MLB up, they did a segment on him this morning on MLBN and he's the highest search on Fangraphs, his D seems alright thus far and I'd add 10 points on that steamer projection. Also, they said he's the youngest catcher to do that since Joe Mauer, which is it Pudge or Mauer?

[Laika]

I believe that's low, kid can rake to all fields. He's definitely woke the MLB up, they did a segment on him this morning on MLBN and he's the highest search on Fangraphs, his D seems alright thus far and I'd add 10 points on that steamer projection. Also, they said he's the youngest catcher to do that since Joe Mauer, which is it Pudge or Mauer?

 

I read like, four different "youngest catcher to do this since..." yesterday. Mauer, Pudge, some guy in 1939...

[Spanky__99]

I read like, four different "youngest catcher to do this since..." yesterday. Mauer, Pudge, some guy in 1939...

 

Messed up, they say it was Mauer in '04.

[Olerud363]

I believe that's low, kid can rake to all fields. He's definitely woke the MLB up, they did a segment on him this morning on MLBN and he's the highest search on Fangraphs, his D seems alright thus far and I'd add 10 points on that steamer projection. Also, they said he's the youngest catcher to do that since Joe Mauer, which is it Pudge or Mauer?

 

Pudge wasn't much of a hitter at first. Came up really young then got better and better and peaked as a great power hitter, though that was in the late 90s *. No idea if Pudge was a user. I think there were rumors but it came from Canseco or something.

 

Mauer was always a natural hitter. Kirk is much more like Mauer. Numbers in the minors are comparable.

 

Also - Vladdy and Kirk both played at BlueField, Lansing, and Dunedin.

 

Kirk's overall numbers if you combine the three levels are better. That is from killing Bluefield, but being just a tad behind in Lansing and Dunedin.

 

It's hard to evaluate guys without minor leagues. In a normal year kirk would been in New Hamphire and Buffalo before coming up in September. There wouldn't be any surprise or a-ball to majors narrative.

[Boxcar]

I mean it's one great game but his eye and contact rate look excellent.

 

No, it's not. His average exit velo is like 97mph. This was bound to even out.

 

So, he doesn't strike out, doesn't really chase, is very selective and smokes the ball when he makes contact. There's no way he was ever going to remain a below average hitter.

 

Yeah, he's probably not an over 200 wRC+ hitter, but settling into the 130-140 range is pretty easy to see given what he's done so far.

 

Fun fact, after that game, he has a higher WAR than Danny Jansen. He should be the starter. He's worked extremely well with pitchers who have tons of movement and velocity but little idea of where it's going, while also doing a pretty great job framing. His game calling does not appear to be an issue.

 

This guy came from A+ to the majors and looks like he belongs. That's remarkable. If he can drop 30-40 pounds, we have a long term superstar on our hands.

[Boxcar]

Exit velocity 97.5....The kid barrels up everything. His eye hand co-ordination is off the charts combined with good swing mechanics. This kid is a natural. I know it's an extremely small sample size, but the kid was 4 for 8 in spring training...they couldn't get him out in summer camp..now 15 PAs and only 1 strike out.

 

Cavan

Bo

Gurriel

Teoscar

Tellez

Vlad

Grichuk

Kirk

Shaw

 

If Rowdy makes it back, that lineup isn't going to be fun for whoever we play in the first round. I'd have kirk hitting 5th or 6th in my lineup, but Charlie won't do that.

 

Actually, according to FG, he has one barrel, which occurred last night. No idea what the definition of a barrel is, but idk how you can have a top ten exit velo while only barreling the ball once.

[Spanky__99]

Holy f***, lol.

[Boxcar]

I read like, four different "youngest catcher to do this since..." yesterday. Mauer, Pudge, some guy in 1939...

 

1939 guy was last time a 21 year old went 4-4 with a home run.

2004 Mauer was last time a catcher 21 or younger had 4 hits

 

Pudge thing seems to have been an error which overlooked Mauer, but that's still pretty impressive company, especially since Kirk skipped two levels.

[BigCecil]

Capitan Kirk smashing balls away at 96 to RF and yanking stuff inside into LF corner. Awesome game. Please lose 15. Maybe some lifts in the cleats. Thats all I ask.

 

Winning is more fun than losing.

[Laika]

Actually, according to FG, he has one barrel, which occurred last night. No idea what the definition of a barrel is, but idk how you can have a top ten exit velo while only barreling the ball once.

 

Barrel just means xBA >.500 and xSLG >1.500

 

Barrel rates takes 50+ PA to stabilize a bit so he's not even 1/3 of the way there. His current barrel rate means nothing.

 

I'm guessing he's had a couple of non-barrels that just missed the xBA or xSLG cutoff. The homer last night was actually a bit of a wall scraper that wouldn't have a great xBA. Other than that, he has crushed a few balls for singles or outs that just didn't have any realistic chance of being extra base hits.

[Laika]

I don't know how I can even watch a game caught by Danny Jansen ever again.

[Carlos Danger]

I have faith in Kirk.. However, just remember JPA.. He hit two HRs in a debut game and was physically a specimen. Weight on knees at catcher, league adjustments... Still too early to anoint him the great one.

[King]

[wilko]

 

what have you done!?!?

[Olerud363]

I don't know how I can even watch a game caught by Danny Jansen ever again.

 

I know you are half kidding, I guess, probably. Jansen can be a 3 WAR player if he hits .230. He's 2018 Russel Martin.

 

Another loss of Covid ball -- don't get to find out if Jansen could of got the Average up over .200 again and collected a couple of WAR.

[Orgfiller]

I have faith in Kirk.. However, just remember JPA.. He hit two HRs in a debut game and was physically a specimen. Weight on knees at catcher, league adjustments... Still too early to anoint him the great one.

 

Arencibia and Kirk could not have more dissimilar profiles, even ignoring their body types.

[max silver]

I have faith in Kirk.. However, just remember JPA.. He hit two HRs in a debut game and was physically a specimen. Weight on knees at catcher, league adjustments... Still too early to anoint him the great one.

 

JPA never had the kind of plate discipline that Kirk has displayed so far, he was like a Kevin Pillar level free swinger that regularly ran a nearly 30% k rate. I'm not entirely sold on Kirk defensively yet but it's hard to deny the guy looks amazing at the plate.

[Olerud363]

One of the partly true things said on this board is that Cito Gaston was very popular.

 

After Arencibia went 4 for 4 in his debut he didn't play much the rest of the year because "Buck" I think was the veteran. Buck "I love Cito. Cito's the guy. I love keeping my job"

 

In retrospect Arencibia sucked, so maybe Cito was right. Still you want to look at the young players.

 

How would Cito handle the Jansen/Kirk situation??

 

He'd play Joseph. Joseph is the veteran in this triangle.

 

Years later Joseph would say "I love Cito. I loved him in 2020. He was a players manager. A great guy. I loved playing down the stretch for Cito a beautiful man"

 

Cito isn't the manager, so how will Charlie handle this? It won't be Joseph at least.

[dineke]

I know you are half kidding, I guess, probably. Jansen can be a 3 WAR player if he hits .230. He's 2018 Russel Martin.

 

Another loss of Covid ball -- don't get to find out if Jansen could of got the Average up over .200 again and collected a couple of WAR.

 

Yeah he missed his chance with Kirk looking like the starting catcher for the forseeable future. He can be a good back-up though.

[Carlos Danger]

JPA never had the kind of plate discipline that Kirk has displayed so far, he was like a Kevin Pillar level free swinger that regularly ran a nearly 30% k rate. I'm not entirely sold on Kirk defensively yet but it's hard to deny the guy looks amazing at the plate.

 

That 30% K rate was in MLB. In the minors and when he was an FSL Allstar, in AA and two years of AAA he had a K rate of between 18% to around 22 % with an average of 500 PAs per year.

[max silver]

That 30% K rate was in MLB. In the minors and when he was an FSL Allstar, in AA and two years of AAA he had a K rate of between 18% to around 22 % with an average of 500 PAs per year.

 

Arencibia's AAA success was likely largely attributed to playing in the Pacific Coast League where baseballs go to die. The ballparks are all bandboxes, and there are a lot of parks at elevation where breaking balls really don't move the way that they should.

 

Kirk's WORST strikeout rate in his limited minor league career was 11.2%, while Arencibia's BEST strikeout rate in the minors was 17.6%. There is really nothing in common with how these two players come about their success at the plate. Kirk has typically walked more than he has struck out so far, the guy has a pretty amazing eye at the plate. I'll agree it's too early to declare Kirk a 100% certain future star, but he certainly has the necessary ingredients to become one.

[Laika]

That 30% K rate was in MLB. In the minors and when he was an FSL Allstar, in AA and two years of AAA he had a K rate of between 18% to around 22 % with an average of 500 PAs per year.

 

Aaron Cibia was a below average hitter at a few stops up the ladder and never walked. Him and Kirk really have absolutely nothing in common aside from:

 

- Being catchers

- Being Blue Jays

- Having wieners? (assumptions being made)

[Olerud363]

That 30% K rate was in MLB. In the minors and when he was an FSL Allstar, in AA and two years of AAA he had a K rate of between 18% to around 22 % with an average of 500 PAs per year.

 

He hit .230 in Las Vegas one year with like a 25 - 115 bb/k... then he came back and was better in Las Vegas the next year.

 

It was Las Vegas though. Crazy place for hitting. Hitting .230 in Vegas is pretty bad. Most random guys hit .300 in Vegas no problem. So even Arencibia 2010 season in Vegas wasn't super impressive.

 

If 19 year old, 230 pound lightning-cat Vlad went to Vegas he'd probably hit .500... Well for a while at least, the Buffets would of sped up his transition to 270 pound panda-cat Vlad from a matter of months to weeks.