BASEBALL IS BACk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Barkerfan23]

How about this

Cancel this season. start the strike next year. come back in 2025 with a new set of young players

[connorp]

She's out of your league, Connor

 

Yes, I do understand I’m not a multi-million dollar professional athlete. Thanks for the reality check though Jim

[Stangstag]

 

Lol can’t wait to see all the NL fans throw an absolute fit over this

[The Cats Ass]

Blake Snell crying like a baby online. f*** him and f*** the rest of the players. shut this s*** down

 

How about f*** the owners? Why should the players have to settle for less than what they negotiated for because the owners are greedy?

 

You don't see the them giving the players a 50/50 revenue split any other year when they're pulling in $10+ Billion.

[Brownie19]

The MLB and MLBPA already struck and agreement - but have the circumstances tangibly changed since that agreement was made?

 

length of season, playoff format, fans v. no fans, etc?

 

If they have, then wouldn't it seem completely reasonable for MLB to come back to the MLBPA and ask for some revisions to suit what's actually going to happen?

[Stangstag]

How about f*** the owners? Why should the players have to settle for less than what they negotiated for because the owners are greedy?

 

You don't see the them giving the players a 50/50 revenue split any other year when they're pulling in $10+ Billion.

 

 

You’re right.

 

BUT, on the other hand, why would the owners bother getting the season started if they’re going to LOSE money? Might as well have no season right?

 

Its a tough argument.

[Stangstag]

The MLB and MLBPA already struck and agreement - but have the circumstances tangibly changed since that agreement was made?

 

length of season, playoff format, fans v. no fans, etc?

 

If they have, then wouldn't it seem completely reasonable for MLB to come back to the MLBPA and ask for some revisions to suit what's actually going to happen?

 

I think the main thing that changed is that when the original agreement was struck, the owners did not expect they would receive 0$ in ticket and vendor revenue over the entirety of the season.

[The Cats Ass]

You’re right.

 

BUT, on the other hand, why would the owners bother getting the season started if they’re going to LOSE money? Might as well have no season right?

 

Its a tough argument.

 

They'll lose money anyway won't they since they're still currently paying players? I can't see them losing money anyway if all contracts are prorated for the number of games they play.

[Brownie19]

I think the main thing that changed is that when the original agreement was struck, the owners did not expect they would receive 0$ in ticket and vendor revenue over the entirety of the season.

 

That's a tangible change then IMO. Tough to form an opinion without understanding whether changes like that were discussed during negotiations. Perhaps both sides accepted the risk that things could change and agreed they wouldn't re-open negotiations. If so - Owners are dumb. If the agreement was made based on a set of agreed upon assumptions - and some of those have changed, then I'm not sure why anyone would argue this isn't valid.

 

I can't imagine both sides are stupid enough not to have considered this and addressed it. I also suspect a lot of the players don't know or understand that level of minutia and thus should probably avoid forming, and especially voicing an opinion on that matter.

[Brownie19]

How about f*** the owners? Why should the players have to settle for less than what they negotiated for because the owners are greedy?

 

You don't see the them giving the players a 50/50 revenue split any other year when they're pulling in $10+ Billion.

 

Everything will also lean on the side of the Owners. They are the ones that take the risk and thus deserve more of a reward. If you want to even up the risk - move to non guaranteed contracts.

[Beans]

Blake Snell crying like a baby online. f*** him and f*** the rest of the players. shut this s*** down

 

Barkerfan23 is "crying like a baby online. f*** him and f*** the rest of the [trolls]. shut this s*** down."

Edited May 14, 2020 by Beans

[Beans]

All MLBPA concessions made in the eventual agreement for the 2020 season will set precedent for the CBA next year, and that's why the players are taking the stance they're taking. If they agree to this deal, they stand to lose money over many seasons, whereas the owners might lose money for just one season.

 

It's not as simple as the players are being babies and the owners are being greedy. It's business.

[Carlos Danger]

Thirty thousand Boeing employees on Wednesday must start taking vacation or sick time, or apply for unemployment, after the region’s largest private employer decided Sunday to keep its Puget Sound plants closed indefinitely.

These guys have a union, they have a CBA with a negotiated pay rate. They are NOT working, so now, they are one of the three above... All three of which are worse than a baseball player.

 

If the players are only going to play 1/2 a season, with no fans, with taxi squads so each individual will actually probably be doing less work... Then it is only logical they would not get the same pay, regardless of the CBA... This is Force Majeure IMO..

[glory]

Most if not all of us are employees somewhere, so we can naturally see/agree with the player's POV, but the owners will always have the leverage. For one thing, if the players get their way and get a prorated salary in 2020 rather than 50/50 revenue split, will the MLBPA complain when owners don't spend money on players in 2021?Because that will ultimately happen. With so many teams losing out on revenue, there will be a tornado of non tenders, and lack of spending on free agents this winter. Of course, owners are not obligated to spend money, just as players are not obligated to split revenue. See where this is going? It's not going to end up good for the players.

 

Players do not move revenue in baseball. Mike Trout can be replaced by Jo Adell for $600k and the Angels (in a normal circumstance) will probably see little to no difference in revenue. Fans cheer for the front of the uniform in baseball. It is a regional sport. That is why it is not as popular in the mainstream. Players are not recognizable, and fan bases are loyal to the franchises. The MLBPA should not die on this hill. Teams will pay for age and performance, so the most important aspect here is to get players to make more money in years 0-6 of service time when the next CBA rolls around. If they piss the owners off for a prorated salary in 2020, it will screw them badly in the end. Of course, both sides appear to want a lockout for some reason based on the way they are acting, so maybe that's their plan all along.

[Spanky__99]

Thirty thousand Boeing employees on Wednesday must start taking vacation or sick time, or apply for unemployment, after the region’s largest private employer decided Sunday to keep its Puget Sound plants closed indefinitely.

These guys have a union, they have a CBA with a negotiated pay rate. They are NOT working, so now, they are one of the three above... All three of which are worse than a baseball player.

 

If the players are only going to play 1/2 a season, with no fans, with taxi squads so each individual will actually probably be doing less work... Then it is only logical they would not get the same pay, regardless of the CBA... This is Force Majeure IMO..

 

WTF... lol.

[Beans]

Thirty thousand Boeing employees on Wednesday must start taking vacation or sick time, or apply for unemployment, after the region’s largest private employer decided Sunday to keep its Puget Sound plants closed indefinitely.

These guys have a union, they have a CBA with a negotiated pay rate. They are NOT working, so now, they are one of the three above... All three of which are worse than a baseball player.

 

If the players are only going to play 1/2 a season, with no fans, with taxi squads so each individual will actually probably be doing less work... Then it is only logical they would not get the same pay, regardless of the CBA... This is Force Majeure IMO..

 

That's not at all a comparable situation. In fact, you're not going to find an apple-to-apples comparison out there, as baseball's employer-employee situation is legally sui generis.

[Brownie19]

The contracts don't factor into risk though. An owner can sign me and you for $10M a year and still make money. Their team will be bad but they will make money. They can just run a Pirates payroll and make money hand over fist.

 

The only risk I can see is almost literally a global pandemic and they are not accepting it. I'm half expecting them to ask for taxpayers' money soon.

 

I may be underestimating how easy it is for Owner to turn a profit. I legit thought teams actually lost money some years. Even if they still 'make money', their ROI's must vary from year to year.

 

That said - if you sign players a contact and they stop preforming or get hurt, then you're ROI may take a big hit and the lack of team success could have on the bottom line.

[connorp]

Blake Snell crying like a baby online. f*** him and f*** the rest of the players. shut this s*** down

 

I just read this. He’s pretty tone deaf apparently. At least the owners aren’t publicly crying poverty. I mean Snell, who isn’t even overpaid, would still make more in half season than many people make in a lifetime and he’s talking about how he has to go out and risk his life lol. What about the ppl that do that everyday, at a much higher risk, for $10/hr?

 

I mean, I actually get the players side on things but it should prob be framed different

[Carlos Danger]

That's not at all a comparable situation. In fact, you're not going to find an apple-to-apples comparison out there, as baseball's employer-employee situation is legally sui generis.

 

The agent, the hot one that we all want to bang: She stated to summarize, there were negotiations, we have a contract/CBA and tough s***, honor it.

 

My point is frijoles, lot's of professions had contracts, unions, CBAs, this is Force Majeure and the CBA is out the window and not applicable IMO.

[Abomination]

The agent, the hot one that we all want to bang: She stated to summarize, there were negotiations, we have a contract/CBA and tough s***, honor it.

 

My point is frijoles, lot's of professions had contracts, unions, CBAs, this is Force Majeure and the CBA is out the window and not applicable IMO.

 

I seem to remember reading that the agreement made with the players was contingent on people being in the stands, and the players got part of their salary advanced as part of that deal. It would be negotiated further if there weren't people in the stands. Isn't that what was said? Maybe the MLBPA just isn't telling players what's going on.

[Beans]

The agent, the hot one that we all want to bang: She stated to summarize, there were negotiations, we have a contract/CBA and tough s***, honor it.

 

My point is frijoles, lot's of professions had contracts, unions, CBAs, this is Force Majeure and the CBA is out the window and not applicable IMO.

 

lol, frijoles...

 

It doesn't matter what some woman agent said, dude. My point is that the union will not accept a deal that sets a bad precedent for them, especially going into next year's CBA negotiations, and so this revenue sharing plan is a nonstarter for them.

 

And you seem to be confused as to what Force Majeure means exactly. It is included in the CBA between the owners and players in the NBA, but it doesn't apply to the current CBA in MLB, all of which can be found in the link here. Use Command-F to look for words and phrases like “force majeure,” “act of God,” “pandemic,” “epidemic,” or “virus” and you'll see that they're not included.

[Beans]

Blake Snell is a f***ing retard. Not necessarily what he said, but how he said it. Rich pampered white boy straight from the hood. American education system at work. I never realized that I had a Canadian accent until today. And having one is a good thing.

 

"There's a strong Frank Grimes vibe coming out of this one."

[Abomination]

Blake Snell is a f***ing retard. Not necessarily what he said, but how he said it. Rich pampered white boy straight from the hood. American education system at work. I never realized that I had a Canadian accent until today. And having one is a good thing.

 

Posturing aside, I could actually see a few pitchers deciding not to pitch this year. Some of the free-agents-to-be could be wise not to take the chance of injury this year for a compressed partial season.

 

Bauer (not that he would, especially since he stated he wants to go year-to-year anyway)

Arrieta

Morton

Ray

Stroman (also doubt he would)

Tanaka

Taijaun Walker

[Jimcanuck]

lol, frijoles...

 

It doesn't matter what some woman agent said, dude. My point is that the union will not accept a deal that sets a bad precedent for them, especially going into next year's CBA negotiations, and so this revenue sharing plan is a nonstarter for them.

 

And you seem to be confused as to what Force Majeure means exactly. It is included in the CBA between the owners and players in the NBA, but it doesn't apply to the current CBA in MLB, all of which can be found in the link here. Use Command-F to look for words and phrases like “force majeure,” “act of God,” “pandemic,” “epidemic,” or “virus” and you'll see that they're not included.

 

Force majeure or law of frustration is case law, still applies.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Jimcanuck

[Beans]

Posturing aside, I could actually see a few pitchers deciding not to pitch this year. Some of the free-agents-to-be could be wise not to take the chance of injury this year for a compressed partial season.

 

Bauer (not that he would, especially since he stated he wants to go year-to-year anyway)

Arrieta

Morton

Ray

Stroman (also doubt he would)

Tanaka

Taijaun Walker

 

Yah, I was rather surprised when I read earlier today that some players are considering sitting out the season.

 

"Earlier this week, we spoke to a prominent agent who said that "no question" some players will sit out this season for this reason. They will look at the possibility of taking a further pay cut from an already prorated salary and deem the risk not worth the reward." Link is here

 

And then later today: "Will those players be allowed to sit without pay -- but also without penalty from their employers? How will their service time be calculated?" Link is here

 

It's going to be a giant mess no matter what, but beggars can't be choosers so I'll be happy just to watch at least some of them play ball for 80 games.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Beans

[Spanky__99]

I seem to remember reading that the agreement made with the players was contingent on people being in the stands, and the players got part of their salary advanced as part of that deal. It would be negotiated further if there weren't people in the stands. Isn't that what was said? Maybe the MLBPA just isn't telling players what's going on.

 

How so, they have player reps; on every team.

[Carlos Danger]

lol, frijoles...

 

It doesn't matter what some woman agent said, dude. My point is that the union will not accept a deal that sets a bad precedent for them, especially going into next year's CBA negotiations, and so this revenue sharing plan is a nonstarter for them.

 

And you seem to be confused as to what Force Majeure means exactly. It is included in the CBA between the owners and players in the NBA, but it doesn't apply to the current CBA in MLB, all of which can be found in the link here. Use Command-F to look for words and phrases like “force majeure,” “act of God,” “pandemic,” “epidemic,” or “virus” and you'll see that they're not included.

 

Ahhh Beans... You cut your cut and paste... Are you working for CNN now...or too much Tequila esta noche?

 

And then the part right after what you posted:

 

However, paragraph 11 of the MLB’s Uniform Player’s Contract (UPC) provides:

 

“11. This contract is subject to federal or state legislation, regulations, executive or other official orders or other governmental action, now or hereafter in effect respecting military, naval, air or other governmental service, which may directly or indirectly affect the Player, Club or League and subject also to the right of the Commissioner to suspend the operation of this contract during any national emergency during which Major League Baseball is not played.” (emphasis added)

 

Thus, when President Trump declared a state of emergency on March 13, 2020 in connection with the COVID-19 pandemic, Commissioner Manfred effectively had the right to suspend immediately all player contracts, including any payment obligations of the clubs thereunder, indefinitely for the period of time during which the state of emergency was in effect and games were not being played.

[Jimcanuck]

Ahhh Beans... You cut your cut and paste... Are you working for CNN now...or too much Tequila esta noche?

 

And then the part right after what you posted:

 

However, paragraph 11 of the MLB’s Uniform Player’s Contract (UPC) provides:

 

“11. This contract is subject to federal or state legislation, regulations, executive or other official orders or other governmental action, now or hereafter in effect respecting military, naval, air or other governmental service, which may directly or indirectly affect the Player, Club or League and subject also to the right of the Commissioner to suspend the operation of this contract during any national emergency during which Major League Baseball is not played.” (emphasis added)

 

Thus, when President Trump declared a state of emergency on March 13, 2020 in connection with the COVID-19 pandemic, Commissioner Manfred effectively had the right to suspend immediately all player contracts, including any payment obligations of the clubs thereunder, indefinitely for the period of time during which the state of emergency was in effect and games were not being played.

 

Where does it say a suspension of payment obligations? It says the commissioner can suspend the CBA. Does not say commissioner can suspend individual player contracts.

 

Where an event occurs that is the fault of neither side, and the contract cannot be performed, then in the absence of a negotiated settlement, the courts will determine a remedy. Better for the two parties to negotiate which is exactly what they are doing.

[Carlos Danger]

Where does it say a suspension of payment obligations? It says the commissioner can suspend the CBA. Does not say commissioner can suspend individual player contracts.

 

Where an event occurs that is the fault of neither side, and the contract cannot be performed, then in the absence of a negotiated settlement, the courts will determine a remedy. Better for the two parties to negotiate which is exactly what they are doing.

 

It is the interpretation of a major law firm Matlock. I don't even need a law firm to understand that suspending the CBA means just that... It is a Collective bargaining agreement-- Compensation. Therefore, if it is suspended, ergo, you can suspend compensation that is dictated by such agreement.

 

https://www.foley.com/en/insights/publications/2020/05/collective-bargaining-sports-covid19-mlb-salaries

 

Also, note the CBA falls under US law as far as I know and Canadian Law might not be the same.

[Spanky__99]

It is the interpretation of a major law firm Matlock. I don't even need a law firm to understand that suspending the CBA means just that... It is a Collective bargaining agreement-- Compensation. Therefore, if it is suspended, ergo, you can suspend compensation that is dictated by such agreement.

 

https://www.foley.com/en/insights/publications/2020/05/collective-bargaining-sports-covid19-mlb-salaries

 

Also, note the CBA falls under US law as far as I know and Canadian Law might not be the same.

 

Shaddup Yank, stick that flag up your ass!