Luhnow and Hinch Suspensions

[Abomination]

What is your position on using 'code breaker' to teach players to steal signs (and relay them to the batter) while on 2nd base?

 

I believe people generally believe stealing signs while on 2nd base is fair game - but what if they get better at it by studying film and using an algorithm program (much like they do to learn pitchers tendencies for pitch types used in certain situations). As long as you're not using the program in-game...is it OK?

 

I have zero problem with people using things like code breaker between games, and zero problem with the players and coaches using their own skills during the game. I have a big problem with using technology during the game to do this.

[Abomination]

Let the fallout begin: Bolsinger suing the Stros..

 

 

I can't imagine that going anywhere. Normally I hate lawsuits like this, but I think the Astros deserve much more punishment than they received. It would be nice to see them have to at least squirm a little more.

[glory]

Vacating the title would have solved everything, in hindsight. Players/fans would have still be upset, but that's the ultimate punishment. Instead they gave a slap on the wrist.

 

This stuff is far from over.

[Laika]

I can't imagine that going anywhere. Normally I hate lawsuits like this, but I think the Astros deserve much more punishment than they received. It would be nice to see them have to at least squirm a little more.

 

Yeah, there are multiple avenues to victory in a lawsuit like that:

 

1) An actual victory in court

2) A settlement because the other party wants to keep a lid on everything

3) A legal loss, but a moral victory; the other party has to squirm, is exposed publicly, etc.

4) A legal loss, and a moral loss (think the case getting dismissed quickly) BUT being involved in something noteworthy somehow gives the plaintiff benefits (book deals, future jobs, etc.)

[Boxcar]

What is your position on using 'code breaker' to teach players to steal signs (and relay them to the batter) while on 2nd base?

 

I believe people generally believe stealing signs while on 2nd base is fair game - but what if they get better at it by studying film and using an algorithm program (much like they do to learn pitchers tendencies for pitch types used in certain situations). As long as you're not using the program in-game...is it OK?

 

I don't see why not. That's just a natural evolution of the game. Players research film on pitchers, themselves, this seems like an extension of that.

[Deadpool]

What is your position on using 'code breaker' to teach players to steal signs (and relay them to the batter) while on 2nd base?

 

I believe people generally believe stealing signs while on 2nd base is fair game - but what if they get better at it by studying film and using an algorithm program (much like they do to learn pitchers tendencies for pitch types used in certain situations). As long as you're not using the program in-game...is it OK?

 

I think that training time could probably be used more effectively, but I don't have an issue with players trying to figure out sign stealing in principle, no. It's the use of technology pitch to pitch that I really don't like.

[Bobthe4th]

No wonder Beltran was the only player named in the report - it's coming out that players (justifiably) threw him under the bus:

 

"Not only was Carlos Beltran considered a driving force of the Houston Astros sign-stealing scandal, but former teammates also said he refused to change when confronted by Brian McCann.

 

"He disregarded it and steamrolled everybody," a member of the 2017 Astros said of Beltran's response to McCann's concerns, per Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic. "Where do you go if you're a young, impressionable player with the Astros and this guy says, 'We're doing this'? What do you do?"

[wilko]

No wonder Beltran was the only player named in the report - it's coming out that players (justifiably) threw him under the bus:

 

"Not only was Carlos Beltran considered a driving force of the Houston Astros sign-stealing scandal, but former teammates also said he refused to change when confronted by Brian McCann.

 

"He disregarded it and steamrolled everybody," a member of the 2017 Astros said of Beltran's response to McCann's concerns, per Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic. "Where do you go if you're a young, impressionable player with the Astros and this guy says, 'We're doing this'? What do you do?"

 

Sucks for Beltran. He had a shot at the HOF... now he's one of the main ringleaders of the garbage pail kids.

[Beans]

Sucks for Beltran. He had a shot at the HOF... now he's one of the main ringleaders of the garbage pail kids.

He had more than a shot at the HOF. He would have been a second-or-third ballot guy based not just on career numbers, but also on his reputation. He was arguably the most revered player of the last decade. He ruined his own reputation just to get that World Series ring before retiring.

[Beans]

Anybody read the latest on this from The Athletic?

 

Apparently Carlos Beltran was the "Godfather" in the sign-stealing campaign.

 

When Beltran joined the team in 2017 after three seasons with the Yankees, he told the organization its sign-stealing methods were "behind the times."

When Astros players tried to put a stop to the cheating, Beltran steamrolled everybody, according to an anonymous team member. "Where do you go if you're a young, impressionable player with the Astros and this guy says, 'We're doing this'? What do you do?"

[Jimcanuck]

Anybody read the latest on this from The Athletic?

 

Apparently Carlos Beltran was the "Godfather" in the sign-stealing campaign.

 

When Beltran joined the team in 2017 after three seasons with the Yankees, he told the organization its sign-stealing methods were "behind the times."

When Astros players tried to put a stop to the cheating, Beltran steamrolled everybody, according to an anonymous team member. "Where do you go if you're a young, impressionable player with the Astros and this guy says, 'We're doing this'? What do you do?"

 

He should be perma banned from MLB

[Boxcar]

Anybody read the latest on this from The Athletic?

 

Apparently Carlos Beltran was the "Godfather" in the sign-stealing campaign.

 

When Beltran joined the team in 2017 after three seasons with the Yankees, he told the organization its sign-stealing methods were "behind the times."

When Astros players tried to put a stop to the cheating, Beltran steamrolled everybody, according to an anonymous team member. "Where do you go if you're a young, impressionable player with the Astros and this guy says, 'We're doing this'? What do you do?"

 

The Astros make me sick. Beltran is their scapegoat, and, coincidentally, he's no longer with the team! AJ Hinch said he hit the monitor a few times and that's enough for Rob Manfred to decide that he had nothing to do with it. Just sweep it all under the rug and lay all the blame at the feet of people no longer in the org.

[Deadpool]

Anybody read the latest on this from The Athletic?

 

Apparently Carlos Beltran was the "Godfather" in the sign-stealing campaign.

 

When Beltran joined the team in 2017 after three seasons with the Yankees, he told the organization its sign-stealing methods were "behind the times."

When Astros players tried to put a stop to the cheating, Beltran steamrolled everybody, according to an anonymous team member. "Where do you go if you're a young, impressionable player with the Astros and this guy says, 'We're doing this'? What do you do?"

 

I love the subtle implication here that the Yankees are up to their beardless faces in this stuff, but nobody can investigate the golden boys!

[Olerud363]

Anybody read the latest on this from The Athletic?

 

Apparently Carlos Beltran was the "Godfather" in the sign-stealing campaign.

 

When Beltran joined the team in 2017 after three seasons with the Yankees, he told the organization its sign-stealing methods were "behind the times."

When Astros players tried to put a stop to the cheating, Beltran steamrolled everybody, according to an anonymous team member. "Where do you go if you're a young, impressionable player with the Astros and this guy says, 'We're doing this'? What do you do?"

 

If Beltran claims the Astros were "behind the times" in 2017 doesn't this indicate the Yankees and other teams were doing it before that??

 

This is starting to remind me of the steroid era... after offense started exploding in 1994 I remember just wondering why weren't the Blue Jays having these magical seasons with guys chasing 50 homers?? Of course in 97 and especially 98 with the arrival of first Clemens then Canseco we started to see a little "magic"... Who knows, who was on what, but guys like Green and Delgado seemed to be behind their peer group until 98.

 

In this era we may of been early to the "magic"... does anybody not think the Jose Bautista and the man in white deserve a second look??

 

It will be interesting to see if offensive trends start to decline next season, or continue. Maybe it will be kind of like the Steroid era where it took several years for offense to decline, after some high profile guys started getting caught, actually it didn't seem that offense really minimized until 2013/2014 after Braun, Melky, A-Rod's dealer squealed I think...

 

May be same thing here... it will go on the another decade until the 4th or 5th cheating scandal.

[Jimcanuck]

If Beltran claims the Astros were "behind the times" in 2017 doesn't this indicate the Yankees and other teams were doing it before that??

 

This is starting to remind me of the steroid era... after offense started exploding in 1994 I remember just wondering why weren't the Blue Jays having these magical seasons with guys chasing 50 homers?? Of course in 97 and especially 98 with the arrival of first Clemens then Canseco we started to see a little "magic"... Who knows, who was on what, but guys like Green and Delgado seemed to be behind their peer group until 98.

 

In this era we may of been early to the "magic"... does anybody not think the Jose Bautista and the man in white deserve a second look??

 

It will be interesting to see if offensive trends start to decline next season, or continue. Maybe it will be kind of like the Steroid era where it took several years for offense to decline, after some high profile guys started getting caught.

 

Weren't there reports of Clemens and Canseco sticking needles in each other's bums in the Jays clubhouse? That was in Canseco's book (?)

[Olerud363]

Of course as others have mentioned just give pitchers and catchers their own encrypted buzzer system... that ends it I guess

[Olerud363]

Weren't there reports of Clemens and Canseco sticking needles in each other's bums in the Jays clubhouse? That was in Canseco's book (?)

 

I believe so.. and it was dismissed as crazy talk until the Mitchell report I think...

[wilko]

I believe so.. and it was dismissed as crazy talk until the Mitchell report I think...

 

And the trainer kept the needles for some bizarre reason.

[Beans]

Anyone here remember Kevin Goldstein? The fantasy know-it-all who used to write for BP and is now a special assistant to the Astros GM was identified as the unnamed executive who suggested using cameras to steal signs leading up to the 2017 postseason.

 

Check out this email he sent out to all Astros scouts: "One thing in specific we are looking for is picking up signs coming out of the dugout. What we are looking for is how much we can see, how we would log things, if we need cameras/binoculars, etc. So go to game, see what you can [or can't] do and report back your findings."

 

And he is still employed by the Astros in the same role...

 

[glory]

I love the subtle implication here that the Yankees are up to their beardless faces in this stuff, but nobody can investigate the golden boys!

 

Every position player the Yankees touch turns into a great hitter for some reason. Literally every single season. Wouldn't surprise me if something was up with them. And the Rays.

[Brownie19]

Every position player the Yankees touch turns into a great hitter for some reason. Literally every single season. Wouldn't surprise me if something was up with them. And the Rays.

 

how else does Gio Urshela become David Wright over night?

[Deadpool]

how else does Gio Urshela become David Wright over night?

 

Yep, that right there is the PERFECT example.

[BlueBaller]

Screw the Asstros! Bunch of high fivin' MF'ers!

[TheHurl]

Every position player the Yankees touch turns into a great hitter for some reason. Literally every single season. Wouldn't surprise me if something was up with them. And the Rays.

 

They would likely be doing something very different then...the Yankees had a 120 wRC+ on the road. 112 at home. Rays were identical at home and on the road as well.

 

The teams with the biggest wRC+ differences between home and away

 

Rockies 23

Astros 22

Nats 17

Phillies 17

Marlins 15

Cubs 14

Braves 11

[EMK19]

Definitely enjoyed all the sports talk shows essentially cutting a wrestling promo bashing the Astros interviews today, lol.

[RobinThicc]

Anybody read the latest on this from The Athletic?

 

Apparently Carlos Beltran was the "Godfather" in the sign-stealing campaign.

 

When Beltran joined the team in 2017 after three seasons with the Yankees, he told the organization its sign-stealing methods were "behind the times."

When Astros players tried to put a stop to the cheating, Beltran steamrolled everybody, according to an anonymous team member. "Where do you go if you're a young, impressionable player with the Astros and this guy says, 'We're doing this'? What do you do?"

 

When the Yankees also get exposed for cheating

 

[Boxcar]

how else does Gio Urshela become David Wright over night?

 

How did Jose Bautista become Sammy Sosa overnight?

[Brownie19]

How did Jose Bautista become Sammy Sosa overnight?

 

I was joking - but in this case, PED's and the man in white are the obvious answers Boxy.

[wilko]

How did Jose Bautista become Sammy Sosa overnight?

 

[DigitalRock]

The Astros owner and press conference was an embarassment.