General 2020 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[bronson44]

Did anyone read the athletic article on the Jays alternate training site.

 

Sounds like Manoah is coming back from some kind of arm injury. They said he and Luciano are ramping up on a throwing program

 

Also sounds like Groshans and Martin are struggling to keep up with the more advanced pitching

 

Groshans did look pretty over matched in his spring/summer training ABs.

[BlueRocky]

Groshans did look pretty over matched in his spring/summer training ABs.

 

What about Alejandro Kirk?

He raked during summer camp and even took Roark deep at the Rogers Centre.

He's always had a great approach too and OBP machine, certainty he could do better than McGuire's .107 OBP.

[Ray]

Would you mind posting it? Sounds like a great read?

 

At the Blue Jays’ alternate site in Rochester, N.Y., the team staff is trying to strike a balance.

 

After the pandemic wiped out the minor-league seasons, teams no longer had a place for their prospects to develop or for older depth players to keep playing. The solution was team-run camps for the surplus of players in their 60-player pool. That means Blue Jays coaches must juggle dual priorities for a diverse group of players who would not be sharing the same field under normal circumstances. For the veterans, the focus is on remaining sharp in case they’re called upon by the MLB club. For the team’s prized prospects, there’s a concentration on instruction and drills.

 

And, of course, for everyone’s benefit, there’s also an emphasis on keeping things fun, especially given the strange circumstances that landed them all there.

 

“They’ve been handling it really, really well,” said Ken Huckaby, who was slated to be the Buffalo Bisons manager this year but is instead in charge of running the team’s alternate site camp. “The attitude is upbeat, the focus, the engagement. The fun that they’re having when they’re not doing their work has been really, really at a high level. I think they’re just happy to be out of the house and away from home and playing right now.”

 

The team is operating out of Frontier Field, usually home to the Rochester Red Wings, the Triple-A affiliate of the Minnesota Twins. With the Blue Jays stationed just an hour away in Buffalo, it cuts down on travel for the players shuttling between the locations.

 

About 30 players are stationed in Rochester, although that number fluctuates when the Blue Jays are on the road and the five-man taxi squad is with them. Led by Huckaby, there is an 11-person staff, including pitching coaches, infield instructors and a mental-performance coach.

 

Days at the site attempt to mirror what a baseball season looks like. Daily, players report to the field and go through their typical strength-and-conditioning workout. Then they take batting practice before playing a simulated game. Twice a week, games take place at night to keep players acclimated to playing under stadium lights.

 

The young starting pitchers, such as T.J. Zeuch, Simeon Woods Richardson and Joey Murray, use those games to get in their five innings of work, while hitters can get about five to seven live at-bats per game, Huckaby said.

 

About three or four days a week, the younger players, such as top prospects Jordan Groshans, Austin Martin and Alejandro Kirk, will participate in position drills, either in small groups or individually. Coaches offer guidance and instruction, but according to Huckaby, the veterans have also been helpful in teaching the younger players about pro baseball.

 

“We’ve taken every opportunity of using guys like Rubén Tejada and Andy Burns and (Jonathan) Davis and now that we have (Derek) Fisher down here, letting them work side by side with the younger players, and they’ve done a great job of passing on knowledge to these guys as they’re doing their work,” Huckaby said last week.

 

Tejada, in particular, has helped Groshans and Martin on the defensive end. And Davis and Burns have been sharing insights on hitting.

 

“It’s been fun to watch,” Huckaby said.

 

When it comes to the intrasquad games, the staff tries to make them feel more authentic by announcing players as they come to the plate. Walk-up music also accompanies them.

 

But because playing against the same teammates night after night in scrimmages can get tedious, the staff has deployed a few methods to keep players engaged. They’ve blasted music during play, from ’80s rock to heavy metal. They’ve also cranked up the volume on the fake crowd noise, just to see if players can stay focussed.

 

“We’ve experimented with a little bit of everything seeing what kind of knocks the player off focus. And see if they can gather up their focus again,” Huckaby said.

 

The staff will also mix things up to keep the games as competitive as they can be. For instance, while they’ll let starters come in with clean innings, when a reliever takes over, a runner might start on second base to simulate the extra-innings rule that’s been used in the minors since 2018 and has now been introduced to the majors. They might also create in-game situations, such as starting an at-bat with a full count, to see how the pitcher and the hitter react.

 

There is no tracking of traditional stats, such as average or RBIs, but TrackMan technology is set up at the stadium so the organization can collect pitching and hitting data.

 

“We just keep track more of the data that we can collect on their exit velocities or whatever (hitting coordinator) Hunter Mense is wanting to collect on the hitters and whatever (pitching coaches) Matt Tracy and Jeff Ware want to collect on the pitchers,” Huckaby said.

 

Rochester is also where some of the injured Blue Jays players go to complete a pseudo rehab assignment, where they can get in some live action before they’re ready to return. As Huckaby mentioned, Fisher, who is sidelined by a left quad strain, has been getting in his work there. When Bo Bichette nears a return from his right knee sprain, he could also spend time in Rochester.

 

And besides running the camp, the staff’s other major responsibility is communicating with Blue Jays coaches and management about how the players look. Huckaby and his staff keep a list of position players and pitchers they believe could step in to help the major-league club, so if an injury occurs, they can easily recommend who should be called up.

 

For instance, after Julian Merryweather was dealing in Rochester, Huckaby reported that he was major-league ready. The team called him up last week, and so far he’s recorded six strikeouts in 3 1/3 innings.

 

Ultimately, though, the final decision is up to Blue Jays management and coaching staff.

 

“All we can do is just give them the best information that we have, by being the boots on the ground, and let them make the decision they want to make,” Huckaby said.

 

It’s unlikely any of the team’s top prospects will receive a call-up this year. But because they’re some of the best players in the system, they’re in Rochester so they don’t lose an entire year of precious development.

 

Huckaby offered his scouting report on a few of them:

 

Alejandro Kirk, 21, catcher

 

“I’ve seen a shift in his focus here, which has been really good. He’s really taking ownership more of his job behind the plate, which is what we really wanted to see. Obviously, we know he can hit, we know he can catch, we know he can block, we know he can throw.

 

“We really need to see some growth out of him in his mental preparation for the game with his pitching staff, and we’ve seen minor growths in that area, using the pitch recs and the data and then formulating a game plan and then reviewing it with the pitchers when the game’s over. And we’ve seen some good steps towards that growth.”

 

Jordan Groshans, 20, infielder

 

“I’ve seen Jordan make huge progress in his defence and his offence. He’s really, really engaged in his work on both of those. He still gets a little frustrated at times, but that’s expected because he’s so young and he has high expectations for himself, which we like. And, defensively, he’s making great strides. Offensively, he’s facing guys he normally wouldn’t face for another year or two up here, so hitting’s not real easy here right now with the pitching that we have here. He’s still got some growth to do.”

 

Austin Martin, 21, infielder

 

“Austin has been everything that he was built up to be, makeup-wise, work ethic, attitude, everything has been off the books great with him. He’s obviously got a lot to learn on both sides of the ball, but he’s probably a player that’s never really failed in his career up to now, and failure will create change and his willingness to start playing with different things. He’s in that beginning stage right now, but the way he works and the way he goes about his work, there’s a definite big-league maturity to that.”

 

Simeon Woods Richardson, 19, and Joey Murray, 23, starting pitchers

 

“Simeon’s a special talent, to where he has big-league-ready stuff right now. But it’s just a matter of him harnessing and getting to know his body, getting to know his mind a little bit more with that mental maturity, but he’s a special player.

 

“He throws 97, which is always good, and then his changeup is filthy and his offspeed, his breaking balls are really, really good, too. So, he’s in the process of learning how to use his stuff. … It’s tough just to have great stuff in the big league and not have an idea on how to use it, so he’s in the process of learning that. And he’s only 19 years old.

 

“Joey Murray has had some really, really good outings, and he’s had some outings where he struggled a little bit, but then he’s found it later on and that’s been a good sign that he’s learning how to come out of when he doesn’t feel right.

 

“They both have had good nights. They both have had nights where they’ve struggled with their command, and that’s a good thing. It creates more learning opportunities for them. They’ve both been showing a high quality of maturity on the mound when they’ve pitched.”

 

Alek Manoah, 22, Elvis Luciano, 20, starting pitchers

(Note: Both players arrived in Rochester only last week.)

 

“They’re on a throwing program, so we’re going to ease them in and then eventually start building them up into starters. Hopefully, within the next three or four weeks, we get them built up to where they’re throwing three, four, five innings in their outings.”

 

The above names are some of the team’s most exciting young players, but Huckaby stressed that all of the players who have been in Rochester this year have impressed him so far. If we had the time, he might have given a scouting report on every one of them.

 

“It’s just all of them,” he said. “They’ve all been great.”

 

But he did mention two other players who have stood out.

 

“(Jonathan) Davis is here, who we’re trying to keep major-league ready and is doing a great job and we know his character’s off the charts,” he said. “Josh Palacios, a young player who’s shining big here right now. Just having great at-bats, one of the surprise leaders in the clubhouse.”

 

Overall, all the players and staff are making the best of a make-do situation.

 

“The engagement has stayed high,” Huckaby said. “Everyone has a positive outlook on everything right now.”

[BlueRocky]

Groshan, Martin, and Kirk are seeing some really advanced pitching for their level if they’re facing Merryweather, Simeon, and Murray daily. Even MLB hitters have trouble squaring up on Merryweather, for good reason.

 

Sounds like Manoah and Luciano are joining into the fun. Groshans should be learning a lot and making leaps of progress compared to your typical A-ball prospect.

[Ray]

It's kind of funny that almost a year ago today, Keith Law did this:

 

 

Since that point, Biggio leads all major league 2B in fWAR and has posted a 166 wRC+

[max silver]

It's kind of funny that almost a year ago today, Keith Law did this:

 

 

Since that point, Biggio leads all major league 2B in fWAR and has posted a 166 wRC+

 

No surprise Law hasn't been able to get another front office job when he doubles down on terrible opinions like this one.

[Abomination]

No surprise Law hasn't been able to get another front office job when he doubles down on terrible opinions like this one.

 

Law has a very specific type of prospect that he likes, and anything else is trash. His inflexibility would likely make him a liability in a front office, but it never hurts to read alternative views in prospect lists and things like that.

[jerb]

[jerb]

 

 

Scott Mitchell

@ScottyMitchTSN

 

#BlueJays injury updates:

 

-Ken Giles (forearm) will throw first bullpen today.

-Bo Bichette (knee) could begin baseball activities this weekend.

-Nate Pearson diagnosed with a flexor strain and hopes to play catch this weekend.

-Trent Thornton (elbow) going to see Dr. Andrews.

[wilko]

 

 

Scott Mitchell

@ScottyMitchTSN

 

#BlueJays injury updates:

 

-Ken Giles (forearm) will throw first bullpen today.

-Bo Bichette (knee) could begin baseball activities this weekend.

-Nate Pearson diagnosed with a flexor strain and hopes to play catch this weekend.

-Trent Thornton (elbow) going to see Dr. Andrews.

 

Looks like relatively good news except for Thornton. A Dr. Andrews visit is usually bad news.

[Krylian]

Looks like relatively good news except for Thornton. A Dr. Andrews visit is usually bad news.

 

He'll be back in 2022 throwing 100.

[THANOS]

They've blasted music during play, from '80s rock to heavy metal. They've also cranked up the volume on the fake crowd noise, just to see if players can stay focussed.

 

They've experimented with a little bit of everything seeing what kind of knocks the player off focus. And see if they can gather up their focus again; Huckaby said.

 

The staff will also mix things up to keep the games as competitive as they can be. For instance, while they'll let starters come in with clean innings, when a reliever takes over, a runner might start on second base to simulate the extra-innings rule that's been used in the minors since 2018 and has now been introduced to the majors. They might also create in-game situations, such as starting an at-bat with a full count, to see how the pitcher and the hitter react.

 

There is no tracking of traditional stats, such as average or RBIs, but TrackMan technology is set up at the stadium so the organization can collect pitching and hitting data.

 

"We just keep track more of the data that we can collect on their exit velocities or whatever (hitting coordinator) Hunter Mense is wanting to collect on the hitters and whatever (pitching coaches) Matt Tracy and Tracy and Jeff Ware want to collect on the pitchers,” Huckaby said.

 

Huckaby offered his scouting report on a few of them:

 

Alejandro Kirk, 21, catcher

 

They've seen a shift in his focus here, which has been really good. He's really taking ownership more of his job behind the plate, which is what we really wanted to see. Obviously, we know he can hit, we know he can catch, we know he can block, we know he can throw.

 

We really need to see some growth out of him in his mental preparation for the game with his pitching staff, and we've seen minor growths in that area, using the pitch recs and the data and then formulating a game plan and then reviewing it with the pitchers when the game's over. And we've seen some good steps towards that growth.

 

Jordan Groshans, 20, infielder

 

We've seen Jordan make huge progress in his defence and his offence. He's really, really engaged in his work on both of those. He still gets a little frustrated at times, but that's expected because he's so young and he has high expectations for himself, which we like. And, defensively, he's making great strides. Offensively, he's facing guys he normally wouldn't face for another year or two up here, so hitting's not real easy here right now with the pitching that we have here. He's still got some growth to do.

 

Austin Martin, 21, infielder

 

Austin has been everything that he was built up to be, makeup-wise, work ethic, attitude, everything has been off the books great with him. He's obviously got a lot to learn on both sides of the ball, but he's probably a player that's never really failed in his career up to now, and failure will create change and his willingness to start playing with different things. He's in that beginning stage right now, but the way he works and the way he goes about his work, there's a definite big-league maturity to that.

 

Simeon Woods Richardson, 19, and Joey Murray, 23, starting pitchers

 

Simeon's a special talent, to where he has big-league-ready stuff right now. But it's just a matter of him harnessing and getting to know his body, getting to know his mind a little bit more with that mental maturity, but he's a special player.

 

He throws 97, which is always good, and then his changeup is filthy and his offspeed, his breaking balls are really, really good, too. So, he's in the process of learning how to use his stuff. It's tough just to have great stuff in the big league and not have an idea on how to use it, so he's in the process of learning that. And he's only 19 years old.

 

Joey Murray has had some really, really good outings, and he's had some outings where he struggled a little bit, but then he's found it later on and that's been a good sign that he's learning how to come out of when he doesn't feel right.

 

They both have had good nights. They both have had nights where they've struggled with their command, and that's a good thing. It creates more learning opportunities for them. They've both been showing a high quality of maturity on the mound when they've pitched

 

Alek Manoah, 22, Elvis Luciano, 20, starting pitchers

(Note: Both players arrived in Rochester only last week.)

 

They're on a throwing program, so we're going to ease them in and then eventually start building them up into starters. Hopefully, within the next three or four weeks, we get them built up to where they're throwing three, four, five innings in their outings.

 

Thanks. The above is the juiciest stuff in there.

[THANOS]

Law has a very specific type of prospect that he likes, and anything else is trash. His inflexibility would likely make him a liability in a front office, but it never hurts to read alternative views in prospect lists and things like that.

 

He liked athleticism, great defense, and batting average it seems. The 1st, debatabley, and the 2nd Biggio has though, so I think it's stubbornness.

[King]

He liked athleticism, great defense, and batting average it seems. The 1st, debatabley, and the 2nd Biggio has though, so I think it's stubbornness.

 

I cant blame anyone for missing on Biggio although Law saying he wasnt worthy of a roster spot was just stupid.

 

He was drafted and spent the first two seasons of his career as a slap hitting defense first 2B lol. Only Carlos Danger saw this coming

[BlueRocky]

I cant blame anyone for missing on Biggio although Law saying he wasnt worthy of a roster spot was just stupid.

 

He was drafted and spent the first two seasons of his career as a slap hitting defense first 2B lol. Only Carlos Danger saw this coming

 

I wrote about him 13 months ago, while being one of the first guys voicing to call him up last year:

 

https://www.radioscouts.com/daydreaming-on-cavan-biggio/

[Slade]

 

 

[BlueRocky]

Does occasional Vlad to 3B and Rowdy to 1B mean no more Joe Panik? I'm weighing my options.

[Spanky99]

Vlad's wRC+ 112 and rising!

[Spanky99]

[Thaddeus Malice]

According to bWAR Brandon Drury has played 148 games for the Jays and has put up the remarkable number of -2.3.

 

Easily one of the worst Blue Jays I've ever seen get extended time.

[Ex Player]

No Eovaldi tomorrow. Brewer starts

[Stangstag]

According to bWAR Brandon Drury has played 148 games for the Jays and has put up the remarkable number of -2.3.

 

Easily one of the worst Blue Jays I've ever seen get extended time.

 

Yowch

[WILLIEUPSHAW]

According to bWAR Brandon Drury has played 148 games for the Jays and has put up the remarkable number of -2.3.

 

Easily one of the worst Blue Jays I've ever seen get extended time.

 

Even Ryan Goins managed -0.2 fWAR in his tenure with the Jays from '13-'17.

[bronson44]

Just dfa Drury and call up Andy Burns for now.

[BlueRocky]

 

Starting to be doubtful Pearson will return to make an impact this season.

[max silver]

 

Starting to be doubtful Pearson will return to make an impact this season.

 

Yeah pretty discouraging news, from my limited research recovery times can range from anywhere from 2 weeks up to 6 to 8 weeks depending on the severity of the injury.

 

The following article had some interesting tidbits that may help to explain why Pearson's command was off so much this season.

 

With flexor mass strains, pitchers usually don’t feel pain until the follow-through phase of the pitch. That’s when you need the flexor mass to snap the wrist to get the ball in the strike zone. When the flexor mass is injured, the ball often ends high and pitchers can have problems locating their pitch.

 

https://www.inovanewsroom.org/expert-commentary/2016/09/outside-the-strike-zone-what-is-a-flexor-mass-strain/

[WILLIEUPSHAW]

Yeah pretty discouraging news, from my limited research recovery times can range from anywhere from 2 weeks up to 6 to 8 weeks depending on the severity of the injury.

 

The following article had some interesting tidbits that may help to explain why Pearson's command was off so much this season.

 

 

 

https://www.inovanewsroom.org/expert-commentary/2016/09/outside-the-strike-zone-what-is-a-flexor-mass-strain/

 

should have just scrubbed the whole thing for 2020!!!!!!!

 

ETA: pitchers DID NOT have their usual 'build up ' time to enter the 'regular season'. This was malpractice by the MLB brass and the teams!

[Brownie19]

See you next year Nate. Let's hope he doesn't become a band-aid.

[glory]

Anyone who throws 100 mph is a perpetual injury risk. Hopefully, Pearson only has to miss this season and not anything beyond. Would have loved to seen Ryu/Pearson in a three game series but 2020 isn’t a serious contending season for this squad so no sense rushing him back for this year.

[WILLIEUPSHAW]

Anyone who throws 100 mph is an injury risk. Hopefully, Pearson only has to miss this season and not anything beyond. Would have loved to seen Ryu/Pearson in a five game series but 2020 isn’t a serious contending season for this squad so no sense rushing him back for this year.

 

I think a bigger (taller) pitcher like Big Nate with 'good' mechanics at 100 mph is not necessarily a bigger injury risk. I mean consider 5'8" Stroman throwing 95 - now that is the one you have to figure can't last......