General 2020 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Boxcar]

He's smug in a very different but arguably more annoying (over time) way. At least Stroman is a legitimate quality SP.

 

Yeah. Stroman has the immediate payoff (I'm a victim, you're a racist, let me chop my dog's ears off, Canada loves me) where Grichuk's annoyance is far more subtle and aided by the fact that he kinda sucks.

 

To use a John analogy, it's like a bong hit vs. ingesting cannabinoids.

[Boxcar]

While it was probably still a dump before, I'm pretty sure the "before" picture of the tunnel is with reparations already underway. Same with the destroyed "before" batting cages picture. But I'm no renovations expert.

 

You are correct by my estimation. To me, that sure looks like residual carpet adhesive on the ground and perhaps some kind of adhesive on the walls as well.

 

The batting cages, though, look as they probably were. That's polished concrete, which you wouldn't be covering up. The only thing it looks like they've done is remove some of the turf or carpet runner.

[bones10]

Panik DH tonight lol

[Slade]

[Spanky99]

[Ray]

Bo's 162 game pace: 7 fWAR, 40 HR, 22 stolen bases.

 

He's looking to be an absolute stud. How much would it cost to extend him?

[Corporal Valdal]

Bo's 162 game pace: 7 fWAR, 40 HR, 22 stolen bases.

 

He's looking to be an absolute stud. How much would it cost to extend him?

 

My guess is 6-7 years $100-120 million

[BlueRocky]

Would you sign him to the Acuna contract?

8 year extension, $100 M

[Brownie19]

Would you sign him to the Acuna contract?

8 year extension, $100 M

 

f*** yes. He's the face of this franchise. Vladdy is the face of Arby's.

[Orgfiller]

Would you sign him to the Acuna contract?

8 year extension, $100 M

 

If we use Acuna as the baseline, then no obviously because he's a much better player. However, the way Acuna's contract is set up (I don't remember if he would have been a Super 2), he will be getting $15M, $17M and $17M for his last three years when he would have been arb eligible, where someone of his calibre would have likely earned more for those last two seasons and less his first arb year, then buys out two years of FA at $17M each plus two club options at the same price with him then becoming a FA at 31. Bo I think would be 32/33, and even with the elevated arb prices I still think that same contract would be a steal.

[Ex Player]

Does anyone else think runner on 2nd base in extra innings completely ruins homefield advantage for the home team??

[Brownie19]

If we use Acuna as the baseline, then no obviously because he's a much better player. However, the way Acuna's contract is set up (I don't remember if he would have been a Super 2), he will be getting $15M, $17M and $17M for his last three years when he would have been arb eligible, where someone of his calibre would have likely earned more for those last two seasons and less his first arb year, then buys out two years of FA at $17M each plus two club options at the same price with him then becoming a FA at 31. Bo I think would be 32/33, and even with the elevated arb prices I still think that same contract would be a steal.

 

I mean you're probably right that Acuna is better than Bo, but Bo's career line is pretty sexy

 

269 PAs

15 HRs

.320 / .364 / .588

150 wRC+

2.5 WAR

[Brownie19]

Does anyone else think runner on 2nd base in extra innings completely ruins homefield advantage for the home team??

 

Ex - you need to report to the Department of Redundancy Department

[Laika]

Is Acuna better?

 

Career fWAR per 150 games:

Bo = 6.47

Acuna = 5.21

 

Projected fWAR per 150 games (Depth Charts, i.e. Steamer + ZiPS):

Bo = 4.02

Acuna = 4.29

 

Kind of just comes down to how much you believe in Bo's small sample size MLB career. Projections are so close. Bo is already a top 20 projected position player in baseball.

 

Anyone who feels sad about Vladdy right now should just think of Bo!

[Brownie19]

We had Bautista, who went through god knows how many teams before being a mainstay here. We had Encarnacion, who was claimed and then DFA'd by the A's, who developed guys like Olson, Chapman and turned Marcus Semien's career around (Marcus Semien from the White Sox, who sucked while he played with them, since they are also being praised here).

 

If I were Atkins, I'd be cleaning house right now. Pete Walker sucks, Guillermo Martinez seems to suck, Windmill Rivera sucks (at waving in runners, maybe he can be bench coach) and Montoyo sucks massive dongs. The only coach I actively like is Tim Leiper because he actually stands up for the players, and it always looks like he's ready to throw down with someone.

 

My remedy:

Hire Gibby

Hire Ray Searage

Make Dante the third base coach

Hire Barry Bonds as hitting coach (who Christian Yelich credits with turning into a superstar at the plate)

 

 

Can we add Bobby Dickerson to this list so he can teach Vladdy how to play first?

[Orgfiller]

I mean you're probably right that Acuna is better than Bo, but Bo's career line is pretty sexy

 

269 PAs

15 HRs

.320 / .364 / .588

150 wRC+

2.5 WAR

 

Is Acuna better?

 

Career fWAR per 150 games:

Bo = 6.47

Acuna = 5.21

 

Projected fWAR per 150 games (Depth Charts, i.e. Steamer + ZiPS):

Bo = 4.02

Acuna = 4.29

 

Kind of just comes down to how much you believe in Bo's small sample size MLB career. Projections are so close. Bo is already a top 20 projected position player in baseball.

 

Anyone who feels sad about Vladdy right now should just think of Bo!

 

Acuna is the same age as Bo and already has two full seasons of elite level performance to Bo's half a season. I don't think it's a knock on Bo at all to say that Acuna is a tier ahead, he's an incredibly exciting player and by a good amount our best as it stands. Using fWAR/150 is extremely misleading given that the former has played a third of those games to the latter having nearly double that amount. Minor league performance should still somewhat factor into Bo's performance, and he was only decent (age-level considerations bumping his performance higher) compare with Acuna who has been on a tear since 2017.

[Laika]

Acuna is the same age as Bo and already has two full seasons of elite level performance to Bo's half a season. I don't think it's a knock on Bo at all to say that Acuna is a tier ahead, he's an incredibly exciting player and by a good amount our best as it stands. Using fWAR/150 is extremely misleading given that the former has played a third of those games to the latter having nearly double that amount. Minor league performance should still somewhat factor into Bo's performance, and he was only decent (age-level considerations bumping his performance higher) compare with Acuna who has been on a tear since 2017.

 

This is all baked into the projections though, and they’re pretty damn close

[Jonn]

Does anyone else think runner on 2nd base in extra innings completely ruins homefield advantage for the home team??

 

Honestly yes because the road team can set the bar for how many runs need to be scored. You have to factor the demoralizing factor into the equation when looking at it as well because the Blue Jays dugout went from a party to looking like someone died.

 

I don’t think the 10th inning rule should stick at all. Atleast move it to the start of the 12th or something.

 

I don’t think it’s fair for many reasons. What about where you are in the batting order. Its kinda BS if one team is in the middle of the lineup and other team is at the bottom. You should be able to choose the base runner and realign the batting order.

[Ex Player]

Ex - you need to report to the Department of Redundancy Department

I did. They told me to take a number

[Ex Player]

Honestly yes because the road team can set the bar for how many runs need to be scored. You have to factor the demoralizing factor into the equation when looking at it as well because the Blue Jays dugout went from a party to looking like someone died.

 

I don’t think the 10th inning rule should stick at all. Atleast move it to the start of the 12th or something.

 

I don’t think it’s fair for many reasons. What about where you are in the batting order. Its kinda BS if one team is in the middle of the lineup and other team is at the bottom. You should be able to choose the base runner and realign the batting order

I mostly agree with you. The only thing I do like about the new rule is we wont have to sit through 15 inning games anymore and deplete our pen for the next game.

 

Also eventually we will work it to our advantage on road games, so in the end it will all even out

Edited August 13, 2020 by Ex Player

[BlueRocky]

The pitching has exceeded expectations so far in this season. Anything short of Pearson imploding I think the Blue Jays will be just fine.

 

However, the offense has been worrying. They’re getting hits, but not with RISP. They’re getting homers, but have vastly been solo shots.

 

After the offensive outburst in Buffalo, the lineup looks a bit more respectable:

 

 

 

Even Vladdy has turned a corner in August hitting .300/.364/.533, OPS .897 and 143 wRC+

9.1 BB%, 12.1 K%

LD + FB = 42.3% (increased from 31.8% in July).

Edited August 14, 2020 by BlueRocky

[Boxcar]

Here's a guy who played with Puig nearly his entire career, though his good times and bad. Sure sounds like he thought Yasiel was a cancer!

 

[bones10]

Here's a guy who played with Puig nearly his entire career, though his good times and bad. Sure sounds like he thought Yasiel was a cancer!

 

 

At the end of the day its baseball, and baseballs a sport that does not give a f*** about your attitude, political views, or criminal history as long as you get outs or produce runs in this case they're usually offered a team. Not sure whats going on with Puig obviously he isn't really an elite player and the Jays for some reason want more looks at Rowdy.

[dineke]

Is Acuna better?

 

Career fWAR per 150 games:

Bo = 6.47

Acuna = 5.21

 

Projected fWAR per 150 games (Depth Charts, i.e. Steamer + ZiPS):

Bo = 4.02

Acuna = 4.29

 

Kind of just comes down to how much you believe in Bo's small sample size MLB career. Projections are so close. Bo is already a top 20 projected position player in baseball.

 

Anyone who feels sad about Vladdy right now should just think of Bo!

 

Never imagined Bo would be in the same stratosphere as Acuna but this is pretty eye opening. One thing I don't like about Bo though is that his plate disclipline seems to suck so I wonder if pitchers will exploit it eventually.

[BlueRocky]

Never imagined Bo would be in the same stratosphere as Acuna but this is pretty eye opening. One thing I don't like about Bo though is that his plate disclipline seems to suck so I wonder if pitchers will exploit it eventually.

 

His plate discipline does not suck, his approach is designed to swing out of his shoes on anything close to the zone before 2 strikes. He can read pitchers and sits on specific pitches, looking for hangers and never half-ass commits on his swing. His bat-to-ball skills are also elite, Bichette was given a 70-grade hit tool for a reason. You can’t argue with the results:

 

 

Players don’t set a MLB records of 10 extra base hits in first 9 career games with below average plate discipline. You also don’t get 5-hits, with a walk and homer in a game as a 22-year-old. 142 wRC+ in his 2019 debut, currently having a 177 wRC+ season. He also had 2 stolen bases that game. His ability to do damage on the bases are also a plus. These results don’t happen when your plate discipline sucks.

 

Austin Martin is also a 70-hit tool defensive stud with leadoff speed which is very exciting.

Edited August 14, 2020 by BlueRocky

[Ex Player]

Austin Martin is also a 70-hit tool defensive stud with leadoff speed which is very exciting

He's so good they named an entire car after him

[Laika]

Never imagined Bo would be in the same stratosphere as Acuna but this is pretty eye opening. One thing I don't like about Bo though is that his plate disclipline seems to suck so I wonder if pitchers will exploit it eventually.

 

He swings a lot and doesn't walk much but I haven't seen any real holes yet. He can barrel pitches anywhere. I'm not sure how he could be exploited - he does seem to have a decent eye so he doesn't often swing at complete trash. Even if you compare to Vladdy who in theory should be just as good at making contact, Bo looks far superior at putting the bat on borderline pitches everywhere; Vlad has a soft spot low and away and gets cold on borderline pitches low.

 

BO

 

 

VLAD

 

[Laika]

If you want to see something that is simultaneously amazing and depressing, compare Vlad and Bo's isolated slugging per balls in play heat maps.

 

Vlad has a cavernous hole up and in. He appears to this point to be physically incapable of driving a pitch up and in. He also has not learned to at least hit pitches on the outer half or pitches that are generally up with regular authority either.

 

Bo on the other hand murders pitches that he should, pitches up, even pitches out of the zone, and he has the elite contact skills to put the ball in play for hits even in areas where he doesn't drive it.

 

Think about the above Vlad contact heat map in relation to the ISO/BIP heat map. He makes contact with pitches up and in 90+% of the time, almost every time he swings, but he never hits them for power. It's an automatic groundout. He's a f***ing soft groundout machine when you put the ball there. A double play God.

 

 

[BlueRocky]

Just curious how do Bo's numbers and zone charts compare to Acuna?

[Laika]

Acuna is a different type of hitter than Bo. More swing and miss with some contact vulnerability in one quadrant, but huge power in all quadrants (and more walks).