We are in year 4 of the Shatkins era. How much time do you give them?

[glory]

I'm on Team Shatkins, but even I'm not that impressed with what they've done, especially from 2018-present. Their peak so far was probably 2016 with their small incremental improvements that helped push that team back into contention, although a giant part of that was 'Shacava' (Estrada, Happ).

 

The rebuild is supposed to be the easy part but they are routinely selling low and targeting lower upside players closer to the bigs. I'm trying very, very hard to see upside in some of these players (Drury, Teoscar, McKinney, Thornton, Paulino, Perez, etc), waiting for the player development side to fix some of these guys and turn them into solid big leaguers or fix them in the minors, but I'm just not seeing it. Too early? Maybe. But I need to see something that makes me optimistic about future moves.

[jmomcc]

I'm on Team Shatkins, but even I'm not that impressed with what they've done, especially from 2018-present. Their peak so far was probably 2016 with their small incremental improvements that helped push that team back into contention, although a giant part of that was 'Shacava' (Estrada, Happ).

 

The rebuild is supposed to be the easy part but they are routinely selling low and targeting lower upside players closer to the bigs. I'm trying very, very hard to see upside in some of these players (Drury, Teoscar, McKinney, Thornton, Paulino, Perez, etc), waiting for the player development side to fix some of these guys and turn them into solid big leaguers or fix them in the minors, but I'm just not seeing it. Too early? Maybe. But I need to see something that makes me optimistic about future moves.

 

I can't remember where I read it but it was somewhere on fangraphs, but they said that the jays were basically shooting for average everyday players (50 FV) guys on the cheap and then they would try to supplement that with high end prospects... and then finally free agents. So, they aren't actually looking for high upside guys. Like you, I see how the theory makes sense.. but so far not looking great. But, it only takes a few and we are in business.

[FrozenRopes]

2 more

[Spanky99]

Ehhh, I think all things considered, it's fair to say that Shapiro and Atkins haven't exactly been knocking it out of the park. I know a lot fans will roast me on this, but I think they've been simply fairly decent.

 

A lot of folks on Reddit will defend this regime at all costs, but I'm just not seeing anything overly impressive with them. They're taking a pretty standard and by the book approach, which is fine, but I think most people would've hoped that when they came on board that the team would be a little further along by 2019.

 

LMFaO

[Spanky99]

Shut up losers, I'll take Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins over you stiff's, bar none. You have no clue!

[Krylian]

Shut up losers, I'll take Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins over you stiff's, bar none. You have no clue!

 

Why do you act like a 4 year old so often.

 

Name calling because some people don't like the same dude wearing a suit that you do.

[Spanky99]

Why do you act like a 4 year old so often

 

Why do you act like my dad, so often?

 

[Krylian]

Why do you act like my dad, so often?

 

You should show more respect to your dad.

[Bobthe4th]

Why do you act like a 4 year old so often.

 

Name calling because some people don't like the same dude wearing a suit that you do.

 

Alcohol.

[Spanky99]

You should show more respect to your dad.

 

 

 

[Spanky99]

Alcohol.

 

You want to wear his f***ing suit too, bitch?

[Spanky99]

It's still the same answer... *fysmc* and you toerags have no clue? Period.

[Spanky99]

lol... quiet now. Pussies!

[FrozenRopes]

lol... quiet now. Pussies!

 

Musings of an alcoholic ^

[gruber92]

Shut up losers, I'll take Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins over you stiff's, bar none. You have no clue!

 

lol... quiet now. Pussies!

 

Nice contributions to the board.

[Jimcanuck]

Nice contributions to the board.

 

I expect Spanky is embarrassed when he sobers up and reads his drunk postings

[gruber92]

Why do you act like a 4 year old so often.

 

Name calling because some people don't like the same dude wearing a suit that you do.

 

This is what Spanky contributes, along with wiping the s*** off the hives *******s with his nose.

 

Ross Atkins is not a capable MLB GM, period. Shapiro I'd give more rope, but he better recognize quick that Atkins is not the answer.

[CrackerJack]

Interesting that the poll results (right now) are evenly split at the 2 additional seasons mark, with half giving Shatkins more rope. What for you is "contending?" Battling for the division? Meaningful games in Sept? In the wildcard hunt till the last weekend of the season? Playing above .500?

[Deadpool]

This is what Spanky contributes, along with wiping the s*** off the hives *******s with his nose.

 

Ross Atkins is not a capable MLB GM, period. Shapiro I'd give more rope, but he better recognize quick that Atkins is not the answer.

 

Come the f*** on man. Seriously?

[gruber92]

Come the f*** on man. Seriously?

 

What have you seen so far to make you think differently?

[Deadpool]

What have you seen so far to make you think differently?

 

Picking up excellent complementary pieces while drafting well and creating a very, very solid foundation without sacrificing the future, or striking too quickly. I mean, they have a consensus (other than Law, but lol) top 5 farm, and some useful, if unspectacular, young MLB pieces to fill the gaps when the guys in the minors are ready for the show.

[gruber92]

Picking up excellent complementary pieces while drafting well and creating a very, very solid foundation without sacrificing the future, or striking too quickly. I mean, they have a consensus (other than Law, but lol) top 5 farm, and some useful, if unspectacular, young MLB pieces to fill the gaps when the guys in the minors are ready for the show.

 

C'mon.. He hasn't done anything that any below average cellar dwelling GM could have done. Galvis is his best addition in shoring up SS defensively. How else has he improved the big club? Shoemaker was a decent pick up but what else? If your relying on the the big club being suddenly transformed into a contender based on when the MiLB players are up, your'e dreaming.

[TheHurl]

If Rogers honestly didn't believe in Atkins next off season would be the time to move them (unfairly in my mind). There are assets ready to help and there is minimal payroll. A GM could do whatever they want pretty much. It's also the off-season we all should judge Atkins on. What does he do with Smoak, Stroman and Sanchez (and if he does trade them where are the players they trade for at (Will they be ready to help in majors now or does this season push it back again)? Does he add anything to compliment Vladdy, either via trade or free agency? Does he extend anyone???

[Bobthe4th]

If Rogers honestly didn't believe in Atkins next off season would be the time to move them (unfairly in my mind). There are assets ready to help and there is minimal payroll. A GM could do whatever they want pretty much. It's also the off-season we all should judge Atkins on. What does he do with Smoak, Stroman and Sanchez (and if he does trade them where are the players they trade for at (Will they be ready to help in majors now or does this season push it back again)? Does he add anything to compliment Vladdy, either via trade or free agency? Does he extend anyone???

 

Yeah lots of important decisions to be made this offseason.

[TheHurl]

C'mon.. He hasn't done anything that any below average cellar dwelling GM could have done. Galvis is his best addition in shoring up SS defensively. How else has he improved the big club? Shoemaker was a decent pick up but what else? If your relying on the the big club being suddenly transformed into a contender based on when the MiLB players are up, your'e dreaming.

 

It's more what he didn't do for me. He didn't panic from the plan. He took projections of revenue and made sure that there will be profits this year. What would adding players and payroll have done for this year...absolutely nothing.

[gruber92]

It's more what he didn't do for me. He didn't panic from the plan. He took projections of revenue and made sure that there will be profits this year. What would adding players and payroll have done for this year...absolutely nothing.

 

How did you decipher my quote into adding payroll to this year? That's not my issue with him.

 

The handling of JD, got nothing for him knowing we were entering a rebuilding process.

The handling of the EE free agency scenario, then totally misreading the market and knee jerked a horrible albatross of a signing in Morales that we are still paying for this year, Helping profits?

JA Happ for Drury and McKinney is looking like a horrible trade

Making it publicly known his intentions in trading Stroman,Sanchez and Smoak this early in the season.

Rostering the likes of Brito and Hansen for over a month.

The unloading of Martin and Tulo could have been with a little less financial burden imo.

 

This is just off the top of my head. There have been more negatives than positives. As far as the draft is concerned, it's a collective effort between the scouting team and Shapiro.

 

Question.. Do you think Atkins is capable of making a trade similar to the one for Donaldson? Or unloading the contract of Wells? I'm not comparing him to AA, just saying i don't think he has the clout to pull off something of that magnitude.

[Dick_Pole]

Whenever it gets a little too negative on these guys I like to bring up imagining a regime that laid down $500+ million for Bautista, EE and Donaldson about 5 minutes before the market for those players tanked. Because that's where the conversation was exiting 2015 ALCS when they came aboard. So yeah it CAN get much, much worse.

 

This FO's main strength has been creating flexibility. My main complaint is that they are valuing flexibility too damn much, in that they are putting out a trash heap team on the field in 2019 when they really shouldn't be. But as other posters have alluded to just above, that flexibility can lead to a busy and productive off-season if things are done right.

[Dick_Pole]

How did you decipher my quote into adding payroll to this year? That's not my issue with him.

 

The handling of JD, got nothing for him knowing we were entering a rebuilding process.

The handling of the EE free agency scenario, then totally misreading the market and knee jerked a horrible albatross of a signing in Morales that we are still paying for this year, Helping profits?

JA Happ for Drury and McKinney is looking like a horrible trade

Making it publicly known his intentions in trading Stroman,Sanchez and Smoak this early in the season.

Rostering the likes of Brito and Hansen for over a month.

The unloading of Martin and Tulo could have been with a little less financial burden imo.

 

This is just off the top of my head. There have been more negatives than positives. As far as the draft is concerned, it's a collective effort between the scouting team and Shapiro.

 

Question.. Do you think Atkins is capable of making a trade similar to the one for Donaldson? Or unloading the contract of Wells? I'm not comparing him to AA, just saying i don't think he has the clout to pull off something of that magnitude.

 

Incredible how two people can see things completely differently. I see it as the glass as being 93.4% empty. As in $33 million spent on Morales instead of $500 million spent on Bautista, Encarnacion and Donaldson.

 

You think they misread the market, they could have misread it a hell of a lot worse and received some pressure to extend Bautista although his ridiculous demand may have made it easier on them. We'll never know if AA would have cracked under the pressure.

[gruber92]

Incredible how two people can see things completely differently. I see it as the glass as being 93.4% empty. As in $33 million spent on Morales instead of $500 million spent on Bautista, Encarnacion and Donaldson.

 

You think they misread the market, they could have misread it a hell of a lot worse and received some pressure to extend Bautista although his ridiculous demand may have made it easier on them. We'll never know if AA would have cracked under the pressure.

 

Lol.. Nobody was interested in extending Bautista, stop. Th reality is there were many other options on the free agent market to be had rather than Morales for similar money.

[BTS]

Lol.. Nobody was interested in extending Bautista, stop. Th reality is there were many other options on the free agent market to be had rather than Morales for similar money.

 

I distinctly remember many people on this board wanting to extend Bautista long term because he kept his body in great shape and has great plate discipline. The Ortiz comps were all over the place. And people on this board are smarter than the twitter/reddit community. I’m sure 95% of jays fans would have applauded a 5-year Bautista extension after 2015.