Spring Training OpenerM JFL GDT: Jays vs Tigers. 1.07pm. Sportsnet

[King]

So...just like Buehrle throughout his entire career LOL?

 

I'm just finding this whole argument silly. He did what Buehrle did for virtually his entire career last year, but, "he cant be Buehrle"? His 97 IP sample is pointless to conclude anything on either way; but lets not kid ourselves here: the main difference between the two is that Borucki throws 5+ MPH harder and therefore should have much more leeway to get away with sub-optimal rates than Buehrle had, so its obviously entirely attainable. I'm just looking at this from a pure face-value approach: a LHP with above average velocity, an above average to plus secondary pitch, and good pitchability OBVIOUSLY has a much higher ceiling than "fringy 5th starter". Like, not even close.

You find the discussion that Borucki isn't as good as you think he is silly?

[metafour]

He literally projects as a 4.5-5.0 ERA this season. I'm not sure if he has "obviously above average stuff", his swinging strike rate was a below average 7.8% with a groundball rate that was above average but not elite. His K and BB rates literally matched what he had done the rest of the year at AAA, the MLB is a different animal so expecting him to maintain his MiLB rates from the lower minors when he wasn't always young for the level is shortsighted. I like Borucki, I think he can and will be a serviceable #4/5 starter for us, but you might experience disappointment if you expect him to be consistently a sub 4 FIP pitcher.

 

His sample sizes are all tiny across ALL levels because of his injury history. That AAA sample was 77 IP over 13 starts. The year before that he was 8.16 K/9 and 1.55 BB/9 in AA (yes, I'm aware that it was at a lower level).

 

The actual scouting looks on him have always been better than his small sample sizes indicate. As in: his overall stuff is above average, and he knows how to throw strikes.

[Deadpool]

Pillar with a walk in his first PA. HE'S TURNED IT AROUND GUYS! THIS IS THE YEAR PILLAR WILL BE GOOD!

[metafour]

You find the discussion that Borucki isn't as good as you think he is silly?

 

No, I find the discussion that you guys clearly don't know what a "fringy 5th starter" is silly. Mark Buehrle had multiple entire seasons worth of performance that were as "unimpressive" if not moreso from a rates-standpoint, and he obviously wasn't a "fringy 5th starter". A fringy 5th starter by definition has no redeeming qualities, hence the title. I don't care what Borucki's rates are over 70 IP sample sizes; his arm is clearly superior to that of a "fringy 5th starter", he throws from the left side, and he keeps the ball in the strike zone.

[King]

No, I find the discussion that you guys clearly don't know what a "fringy 5th starter" is silly. Mark Buehrle had multiple entire seasons worth of performance that were as "unimpressive" if not moreso from a rates-standpoint, and he obviously wasn't a "fringy 5th starter". A fringy 5th starter by definition has no redeeming qualities, hence the title. I don't care what Borucki's rates are over 70 IP sample sizes; his arm is clearly superior to that of a "fringy 5th starter", he throws from the left side, and he keeps the ball in the strike zone.

I feel pretty comfortable considering a pitcher who projects for a sub 2 K/BB and 4.8 FIP a "fringy 5th starter".

[Orgfiller]

If you expect any pitcher with average or below-average stuff to become Mark Buehrle, you're gonna have a bad time.

[Abomination]

I personally see Borucki as a #3 starter if he stays healthy enough to make most of his starts every year. I think we'll see his stuff play up as he settles into the league. He's not Buehrle though.

[Boxcar]

Pillar with a walk in his first PA. HE'S TURNED IT AROUND GUYS! THIS IS THE YEAR PILLAR WILL BE GOOD!

 

Watch and learn, folks

[metafour]

If you expect any pitcher with average or below-average stuff to become Mark Buehrle, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

55 future FB, 60 CH, throws from the left side with at least average command. Those are from actual scouting reports. "Average to below average" stuff on what planet, exactly?

 

Mark Buehrle threw 85-87 for most of his career, Borucki has hit 94/95 and safely sits in the low 90's. I'm not making any comparisons; my stance here is pretty simple: a LHP with two above average pitches by definition has a higher ceiling than whatever the hell you want to quantify a "fringy 5th starter" as. His changeup has the upside to be among the top-percentile in the majors, hence why they literally wrote an article about it on Fangraphs. Again, simple question: do you seriously believe that a "fringy 5th starter" is going to possess a league-defining pitch? The answer is pretty obviously no.

[King]

55 future FB, 60 CH, throws from the left side with at least average command. Those are from actual scouting reports. "Average to below average" stuff on what planet, exactly?

 

Mark Buehrle threw 85-87 for most of his career, Borucki has hit 94/95 and safely sits in the low 90's. I'm not making any comparisons; my stance here is pretty simple: a LHP with two above average pitches by definition has a higher ceiling than whatever the hell you want to quantify a "fringy 5th starter" as. His changeup has the upside to be among the top-percentile in the majors, hence why they literally wrote an article about it on Fangraphs. Again, simple question: do you seriously believe that a "fringy 5th starter" is going to possess a league-defining pitch? The answer is pretty obviously no.

I didn't realize a 60 changeup was a "league-defining pitch". LOL!

[King]

Elvis Luciano is warming up in the bullpen per Keegs.

[BTS]

55 future FB, 60 CH, throws from the left side with at least average command. Those are from actual scouting reports. "Average to below average" stuff on what planet, exactly?

 

Mark Buehrle threw 85-87 for most of his career, Borucki has hit 94/95 and safely sits in the low 90's. I'm not making any comparisons; my stance here is pretty simple: a LHP with two above average pitches by definition has a higher ceiling than whatever the hell you want to quantify a "fringy 5th starter" as. His changeup has the upside to be among the top-percentile in the majors, hence why they literally wrote an article about it on Fangraphs. Again, simple question: do you seriously believe that a "fringy 5th starter" is going to possess a league-defining pitch? The answer is pretty obviously no.

 

92 is not a 55 fastball

[jays4life19]

Scouting Report: Borucki locates his fastball, gets ground balls and changes speeds effectively to keep hitters off balance. He’s a strike-thrower who walked 2.2 per nine innings in 2017, with good command of a fastball that sits in the low 90s and scrapes 96 mph. He catches hitters leaning out front or swinging through his changeup, a plus pitch that he disguises well to look like a fastball out of his hand. Borucki’s slider is a fringe-average pitch, so he mostly relies on his fastball/changeup combination. While arm problems have hampered him in the past, Borucki showed durability by throwing 150 innings in 2017.

 

The Future: Borucki’s big leap forward put him in contention to compete for a rotation spot in Toronto in 2018, though most likely he begins back in Triple-A. He has the profile of a back-end starter

[metafour]

92 is not a 55 fastball

 

Its 92 with sink, and he's hit higher than that as well....again from the left side. That isn't my grade, its what Kiley McDaniel wrote just last year. The scouting grades on him have been pretty consistent across all platforms: above average FB that may not be there yet, and a plus changeup. Again, I'm not sure what fringe 5th starters you guys are watching, but a LHP who features two above average pitches with at least average MLB command is pretty safely out of that "category" from a simple upside analysis.

[Maico450]

Highlights. Jays actually had a chance to score in bottom of 9th. Triple and walk had 1st and 3rd, 1 out. 2 more outs game over.

Elvis is alive. Consistent 95 mph FB. Line drive to center field and walk, sandwiched around by infield popup and 2 infield groundouts.

Gal that sits behind Jays dugout, back again with her Red strapless, lowcut top. Nice to see some things never change.

You guys did not miss much. Tigers totally out played Jays. 4- 0 Tigers.

[Maico450]

Lowlights. No Vlad Jr., Not at game.

[Carlos Danger]

Actually, not too bad by the Jays pitching staff, all four runs were off one pitcher.

[Carlos Danger]

It's hard to even think of a worse comp for Biggio

 

Actually to be honest and serious, I have already gone on the record repeatedly comparing

him to Ben Zobrist😜

[Laika]

Actually to be honest and serious, I have already gone on the record repeatedly comparing

him to Ben Zobrist

 

Okay, that might be worse

[BTS]

Isn't Biggio a Dan Uggla type?

[King]

Isn't Biggio a Kelly Johnson type?

ftfy

[Abomination]

Isn't Biggio a Dan Uggla type?

 

I'd be pretty happy with that result.

[BTS]

Anyone read any reports on how Luciano looked? I’ve seen a few places that he was sitting 95 or so, but not much else in terms of command or secondaries.

[43211234]

Anyone read any reports on how Luciano looked? I’ve seen a few places that he was sitting 95 or so, but not much else in terms of command or secondaries.

 

Well the gun was saying Borucki was sitting 95 too. Sounds like it was hot.

[Carlos Danger]

Well the gun was saying Borucki was sitting 95 too. Sounds like it was hot.

 

Borucki’s scouting report says he hits 96, Elvis is a supposed flame thrower, so I woulnd’t assume the gun is hot.

[Spanky99]

Well the gun was saying Borucki was sitting 95 too. Sounds like it was hot.

 

He likely let it loose as he was only going an inning or two. He is vying for a job after all.

[Abomination]

He likely let it loose as he was only going an inning or two. He is vying for a job after all.

 

We also only saw him last year in the second half, and his innings count jumped by a decent amount. He may have been a bit fatigued towards the end.

[Spanky99]

We also only saw him last year in the second half, and his innings count jumped by a decent amount. He may have been a bit fatigued towards the end.

 

Yeah, I don't see him as garbage or anything, as have people have suggested. He could be anywhere from a number 3 like Key, or a backend guy, definitely think he's a SP rotation main keep.

[Spanky99]

He likely let it loose as he was only going an inning or two. He is vying for a job after all.

 

This was true... I called it.

[King]

Vlad in todays lineup, but no video feed.