General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Ray]

It’s an exciting time to be a Jays fan, lots to be optimistic about. But before we all get carried away, a dose of realism is needed. We’re one injury to Gurriel away from having one of the worst outfields in the league. The young players (especially the infield) are still mainly potential. The pitching needs additions from external sources and internal development.

 

By quite good, I mostly meant that I can pretty easily envision them having a team wRC+ of at least 100. Which may seem unimpressive on paper, except when you consider that contenders like the Rays, A's, Cubs, and Nat's are also hovering around that mark and the majority of teams end up below that during the course of a full season. It's obviously a tremendous stretch to assume they'll be a Red Sox/Yankees/Dodgers/Astros level of offense, but I do see a team wRC+ of 100 as a floor for them. Am I being optimistic and betting on a few breakouts? Absolutely. But most teams that have turned a corner in recent years usually rely on a couple breakout performances from their younger players.

 

This still shouldn't prohibit us from being aggressive this offseason. I see no reason to play sitting duck and waste a year of Bo/Vladdy and others in their prime. Go out and be aggressive like the Reds were last offseason, who quite frankly, we're in a MUCH better position than entering this offseason given our financial flexibility.

[Deadpool]

c) Without Galvis/Sogard, our position player WAR is 5.4 which is 4th worst in baseball, below CWS and ahead of BAL.

 

It is not quite good. It might be quite good if you project a substantial improvement for every single guy. I'm optimistic as well but the possibility exists that not all of them will make the improvements we expect.

 

I would definitely be actively trying to upgrade it. There are a lot of teams in the AL with multiple elite position players (HOU, BOS, NYY, MIN, OAK for example).

 

Where are you upgrading? Which players are you removing from the team in order to upgrade? I'm not asking who you add, that's a silly exercise and we don't really have the info needed to do that, I'm asking who you subtract.

 

My position is that our infield is set other than 1B, and our outfield is solid/strong with upside across the board. If a superstar falls into our laps, absolutely make an upgrade in the OF, but Vladdy/Bo/Biggio/Jansen is set and good for the foreseeable future.

[Spanky99]

Well we hope Biggio will be better than Sogard. Although the easy counter is that Bichette is pacing to match Galvis/Sogard combined lol.

 

I'm all in on Bichette but I think some of the "core" gets lumped in with him and Vlad when they don't necessarily warrant that level of optimism. There are 44 current players who are 24 and younger, matching or exceeding Biggio's output. So while it's nice to have him, it's not crazy to say that most teams have a Biggio. Certainly most teams have a Teoscar, Grichuk, Fisher, Tellez, Drury, McKinney (lol) type. I wouldn't laugh at you if you said Reese McGuire is better than some of those guys.

 

My slam dunk core is really only Bo, Vlad and Jansen (catchers his age are not even in the majors). But when I think "core", I think of Judge, Devers, Lindor, Bregman, Chapman, Kepler etc. So I might be setting the bar too high. I think Gurriel and Biggio are on the periphery. I would definitely be looking at position player signings or trades.

 

SP first please, we can sink or swim on Biggio and Gurriel, I see both of those guys as our core though, Biggio's approach is one of a savvy veteran. Especially after seeing the following year's SP FA's. This winter is the time.

[Jimcanuck]

Lol f***ing anthropology lectures from Jim

 

Not a lesson, an opinion.

 

Based on the knowledge that genes adapt to its environment over time.

[Jimcanuck]

Well we hope Biggio will be better than Sogard. Although the easy counter is that Bichette is pacing to match Galvis/Sogard combined lol.

 

I'm all in on Bichette but I think some of the "core" gets lumped in with him and Vlad when they don't necessarily warrant that level of optimism. There are 44 current players who are 24 and younger, matching or exceeding Biggio's output. So while it's nice to have him, it's not crazy to say that most teams have a Biggio. Certainly most teams have a Teoscar, Grichuk, Fisher, Tellez, Drury, McKinney (lol) type. I wouldn't laugh at you if you said Reese McGuire is better than some of those guys.

 

My slam dunk core is really only Bo, Vlad and Jansen (catchers his age are not even in the majors). But when I think "core", I think of Judge, Devers, Lindor, Bregman, Chapman, Kepler etc. So I might be setting the bar too high. I think Gurriel and Biggio are on the periphery. I would definitely be looking at position player signings or trades.

 

Agree with the bolded. Cashman says if you aren't making changes, you are getting worse.

 

Jays are starting some position players that have upside, but realistically project to be bench calibre guys on championship teams.

[Abomination]

Will Smith, who has played a grand total of 28 games, is 10th overall in catcher WAR this year!

[Ex Player]

Will Smith, who has played a grand total of 28 games, is 10th overall in catcher WAR this year!

I liked his movies better

[Spanky99]

Will Smith, who has played a grand total of 28 games, is 10th overall in catcher WAR this year!

 

He's a monster!

[Dick_Pole]

Thanks for somewhat proving my point, but my posts have nothing to do with race. Any part of the world where people have been poor, eating marginal diets for hundreds of years, if you suddenly stick one of them in N.A. culture with a rich family will likely blow up to be obese.

 

The discussion was whether Vlad will get leaner, I'm saying with his family background and his childhood, not bloody likely. Which is why i voted 10+ lbs heavier in the Vlad spring training weight poll.

 

Dammit Jim, even when we conceptually agree on something you have to add in your nonsense. It has nothing to do with genetics, but behaviour. Vlad's granny feeds him to death because she remembers a time when her family didn't eat. You don't need to say anything beyond that.

[Dick_Pole]

Where are you upgrading? Which players are you removing from the team in order to upgrade? I'm not asking who you add, that's a silly exercise and we don't really have the info needed to do that, I'm asking who you subtract.

 

My position is that our infield is set other than 1B, and our outfield is solid/strong with upside across the board. If a superstar falls into our laps, absolutely make an upgrade in the OF, but Vladdy/Bo/Biggio/Jansen is set and good for the foreseeable future.

 

I think you have a fantasy pool mindset on this one. The lineup looks good. The defense does not. That's why the Jays aren't doing so great on positional WAR. If Vlad is on 3B next year and there are no upgrades to the OF, this is a bottom 10 defense in the MLB. Jansen can't do it all by himself.

[kenadiens1]

Why the hell did they pitch to Seager?!?!? This one is all on Montoya!!! Rookie move!!

 

 

 

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[Jimcanuck]

Dammit Jim, even when we conceptually agree on something you have to add in your nonsense. It has nothing to do with genetics, but behaviour. Vlad's granny feeds him to death because she remembers a time when her family didn't eat. You don't need to say anything beyond that.

 

Nah, you wrong. Genetics do play a role in propensity for obesity, along with behaviour and grandma's cooking (which I previously mentioned). Vlad has the wrong genes, and has been well fed since birth. Any discussion of potential weight loss needs to consider these realities.

[Barkerfan23]

Why the hell did they pitch to Seager?!?!? This one is all on Montoya!!! Rookie move!!

 

 

 

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Hahahahaha

[Ex Player]

I didnt watch the game, but looking at the boxscore this morning it appears Wackpack just proved himself

[BTS]

I didnt watch the game, but looking at the boxscore this morning it appears Wackpack just proved himself

 

Waguespack's utility to the team is going to be as a SP who has two years of options and can serve as a 7th starter who gets the call in case of injury. If Atkins does his job this offseason he's not going to be on the team to start 2020, and he definitely won't be relied on to start by the time this team is good.

[Brownie19]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/bo-bichette-is-walloping-the-baseball/

 

gotta love this kid.

[THANOS]

Waguespack's utility to the team is going to be as a SP who has two years of options and can serve as a 7th starter who gets the call in case of injury. If Atkins does his job this offseason he's not going to be on the team to start 2020, and he definitely won't be relied on to start by the time this team is good.

 

I hope you're right. I haven't seen Atkins splurge yet in FA, and this should be the offseason to do it, given the weak SP class in 2020/2021.

 

No reason we shouldn't be seriously in on the likes of Odorizzi, Wheeler, and/or even Gerrit Cole. We have more than enough payroll room.

 

I'm still worried that Atkins won't spend on the right SPs and will, instead spread it around on mediocre arms, which would be a mistake imo.

[Barkerfan23]

Waguespack is better than scrubs like SRF Pannone Diaz etc

[Boxcar]

A projection system claiming Jansen will be very good from now until the season isn't showing all potential, it means that it evaluates him as presently being very good.

 

Get Bob'd, son

[Boxcar]

Old money refers to families that have been rich for hundreds of years. Sufficient time for a genetic difference from the peasant class, and less susceptibility for weight gain from a sedentary lifestyle.

 

I am dying of laughter

 

Holy f*** what a retard

[Boxcar]

This is complete and utter ********! Yes, people of African descent have a somewhat greater propensity towards obesity in N. America (and likely rest of developed world). But there are also multiple confounding factors, such as these black people are disproportionately poor and we know poor people tend to eat high calorie / unhealthy diets. Take a look at Appalachia in the US (which is overwhelmingly white) where obesity rates are sky high. Jimbo - seriously stick to construction or whatever your specialty is. You are making a total f***ing fool of yourself on this one.

 

Well, lucky for Jim, he doesn't have an ounce of self awareness

[Boxcar]

Guys, I'm not having kids unless I win the lottery so I can pass down better genetics.

[Todd Van Anus]

Waguespack probably projects as a 3-4 SP long term.

[Ex Player]

Waguespack's utility to the team is going to be as a SP who has two years of options and can serve as a 7th starter who gets the call in case of injury. If Atkins does his job this offseason he's not going to be on the team to start 2020, and he definitely won't be relied on to start by the time this team is good

I think the sample size is too small to be determined either way.

 

I also originally thought he wouldnt stick, but I'm starting to have second thoughts

 

Waguespack probably projects as a 3-4 SP long term

I think realistically more a 5th starter

[Todd Van Anus]

I think the sample size is too small to be determined either way.

 

I also originally thought he wouldnt stick, but I'm starting to have second thoughts

 

 

I think realistically more a 5th starter

I see Trent Thornton as a 5th and I believe the Wag-man is better.

[Ziggyy108]

Will Grichuk have any trade value this offseason?

[Todd Van Anus]

Will Grichuk have any trade value this offseason?

 

I think he's in the Jays long term plans.

[Laika]

Will Grichuk have any trade value this offseason?

 

No. I can’t see how he would.

[Ex Player]

I see Trent Thornton as a 5th and I believe the Wag-man is better

I will say if he does end up as a 4th starter, then thats excellent scouting by the Jays

[Slade]

Will Grichuk have any trade value this offseason?

 

He would of if they didn't give him such a dumb contract.