General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[BlueRocky]

Borucki and Pardinho rehabbing in the GCL joining Merryweather and Maese

[BlueRocky]

When did Cashman say that?

 

In either event it’s just posturing but I know he said he didn’t want to trade Clint for a rental, which Stroman is not.

 

He’s posturing so that Frazier can hopefully, for them, be the entire return for Stroman or a pitcher like him

 

They’ve been downplaying Marcus Stroman as a “rental” and ignoring the fact that he’s from NY and would have a good chance of resigning. I don’t doubt it’s all posturing, Cashman is known for his shenanigans.

 

They obviously want Stroman, but they want Stroman+ for Frazier, we want Frazier+.

I say look elsewhere. If we find better offers from other teams, then do it. And if NY ups their offer and blows away everyone else’s, only then would I consider trading to the Yankees.

 

If this trade goes through, Stroman pitching against us in 2020-2024 is a possible outcome that doesn’t help our postseason chances whatsoever. That’s not a risk I’m comfortable with just merely Clint Frazier as the only return.

 

If Atkins settle for scrap heaps, especially to NY, I would be very disappointed.

Edited June 26, 2019 by BlueRocky

[Spanky99]

Borucki and Pardinho rehabbing in the GCL joining Merryweather and Maese

 

Good, good... *Mr Burns voice*

[Laika]

They’ve been downplaying Marcus Stroman as a “rental”

 

When did they do this? I don't think they have. Perhaps some source misinterpreted his quote or mistakenly thought Stroman only had control through 2019.

[glory]

The Yankees will get a starter in the next month for Frazier. If it's not Stroman (hopefully it won't be) then it will be someone else. The NY media is in classic spin mode trying to portray Cashman as not wanting to trade Frazier without getting a massive haul, when he's probably hoping to make a trade where Frazier is the only real piece he has to move.

 

The Jays can do better than a defensively challenged corner OF whose offensive potential probably isn't as great as projected to be. Hopefully there are better offers out there, and I see no reason why there wouldn't be. That extra year of control makes a big difference. It probably won't be a great deal, as teams now more than ever are reluctant to move good prospects, but it sure as hell should be better than Clint f'n Frazier as the center piece. If not, then hold on to Stro.

[Jonn]

We should have got Frazier in the Happ deal. Even if we had to add. They have an embarrassment of riches.

 

I don’t trust Atkins to trade with Cashman again. Jays need to strike big on the Stroman deal. Padres gotta be the team to target for a franchise changing move. Have to believe even hovering around .500 with all that high priced talent the Padres really want to make the playoffs.

[Spanky99]

We should have got Frazier in the Happ deal. Even if we had to add. They have an embarrassment of riches.

 

I don’t trust Atkins to trade with Cashman again. Jays need to strike big on the Stroman deal. Padres gotta be the team to target for a franchise changing move. Have to believe even hovering around .500 with all that high priced talent the Padres really want to make the playoffs.

 

They best start winning.

[jmomcc]

Yea, the Padres winning the next few games would help us.

[Ray]

They are bottom 10 in payroll now after being nearly top 5 a couple of years ago. The payroll is already super flexible. Doesn't mean much when free agency is full of duds and land mines these days and the only way to build a sustainable winner is to progressively invest in research and player development and farm assets.

 

I could see being a little hesitant to spend this past offseason due to wanting to see what you had in internal options + there were still some bloated contracts on the books, but I do think it makes sense to at least supplement a little bit this offseason. Obviously I'm not saying to go all out and spend $170M on payroll like in years past, but adding 1 long term piece that will help you in your eventual run wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. The Cubs might've been a year away from truly competing in 2015 but still went out and got their guy in Jon Lester. You could still end up spending $25M on a player and come out having less of a payroll than this season.

[Laika]

I could see being a little hesitant to spend this past offseason due to wanting to see what you had in internal options + there were still some bloated contracts on the books, but I do think it makes sense to at least supplement a little bit this offseason. Obviously I'm not saying to go all out and spend $170M on payroll like in years past, but adding 1 long term piece that will help you in your eventual run wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. The Cubs might've been a year away from truly competing in 2015 but still went out and got their guy in Jon Lester. You could still end up spending $25M on a player and come out having less of a payroll than this season.

 

The Cubs won 97 games and made the NLCS their first year with Lester.

 

The example you should have used was probably Machado - San Diego although that's a bloated example from a desperate franchise.

 

I want Toronto to spend money and try to compete in 2020, I just don't really think they will for... reasons. I am expecting another Galvis + Shoemaker + Richard etc. type of offseason, with a couple of trades sprinkled in for controllable assets.

[BTS]

There were a lot of mid-range deals to be had in the market last year for teams willing to spend a bit:

 

Michael Brantley

Avisail Garcia

Jesse Chavez

Nelson Cruz

Charlie Morton

Mike Moustakas

Josh Donalson

Eduardo Escobar

Yasmani Grandal

Marwin Gonzalez

Lance Lynn

Jonathan Schoop

 

 

All of these guys are providing surplus value on FA deals, and several on pace for 4+ win seasons on cheap 1-year deals. And I'm probably missing a bunch. There's no reason why this team shouldn't be aggressive in free agency this offseason.

[BlueRocky]

I want Toronto to spend money and try to compete in 2020, I just don't really think they will for... reasons. I am expecting another Galvis + Shoemaker + Richard etc. type of offseason, with a couple of trades sprinkled in for controllable assets.

 

I don’t think they will lose a second straight year of 100 games. With Atkins & Shapiro contract ending 2020, they would want to build a case for an extension. I’m pretty sure Atkins would want to remain general manager. Bargain bin deals are nice, but they will eventually have to stop operating like Cleveland/Oakland. That isn’t going to work in the AL East.

 

There’s a ton of payroll room to sign guys, we have close to 50-70M to spend (if they wanted to). The current pitching situation is abysmal and they can easily add a frontline starter.

 

They have Vlad, Bichette, Biggio, and Gurriel on peanut contracts the next 3 years and can’t waste that window. If we enter a wildcard game against the Yankees, Rays, Red Sox, Cleveland, who’s our current answer to their best starter?

 

Matt Shoemaker? Trent Thornton?

Are we putting all our hopes on Nate Pearson during his rookie year?

[Ray]

The Cubs won 97 games and made the NLCS their first year with Lester.

 

The example you should have used was probably Machado - San Diego although that's a bloated example from a desperate franchise.

 

I want Toronto to spend money and try to compete in 2020, I just don't really think they will for... reasons.

 

I wanted to use an instance of an actual semi-competent front office doing it, but yeah that would be an example. Anther example would be Aroldis Chapman to the Yankees pre-2017.

 

Again, we could end up spending $25M-$30M on an actual elite player (i.e. Gerrit Cole or Anthony Rendon) and still be hovering around a ~$75M payroll. It's very likely not going to happen, but it's what some teams have done in the past to varying degrees of success.

[BTS]

I wanted to use an instance of an actual semi-competent front office doing it, but yeah that would be an example. Anther example would be Aroldis Chapman to the Yankees pre-2017.

 

Again, we could end up spending $25M-$30M on an actual elite player (i.e. Gerrit Cole or Anthony Rendon) and still be hovering around a ~$75M payroll. It's very likely not going to happen, but it's what some teams have done in the past to varying degrees of success.

 

Even if guys like Cole, Strasburg, and Rendon aren't in play, there are a bunch of second-tier guys that a team in this market should be ashamed to not be able to afford:

 

Grandal (if Jansen continues to hit half as well as Ryan Goins)

Gennett

Kendrick

Moustakas

JD Martinez

Ozuna

Edwin

 

 

MadBum

Gibson

Hamels

Hill

Porcello

Roark

Odorizzi

Ryu

Wheeler

Wood

Betances

 

I don't think it will (or should be) another offseason of Freddy Galvises and Clayton Richardses.

[Bobthe4th]

Even if guys like Cole, Strasburg, and Rendon aren't in play, there are a bunch of second-tier guys that a team in this market should be ashamed to not be able to afford:

 

Grandal (if Jansen continues to hit half as well as Ryan Goins)

Gennett

Kendrick

Moustakas

JD Martinez

Ozuna

Edwin

 

 

MadBum

Gibson

Hamels

Hill

Porcello

Roark

Odorizzi

Ryu

Wheeler

Wood

Betances

 

I don't think it will (or should be) another offseason of Freddy Galvises and Clayton Richardses.

 

You’re going to be disappointed when the biggest signing we make is Wade LeBlanc.

[Abomination]

Even if guys like Cole, Strasburg, and Rendon aren't in play, there are a bunch of second-tier guys that a team in this market should be ashamed to not be able to afford:

 

Grandal (if Jansen continues to hit half as well as Ryan Goins)

Gennett

Kendrick

Moustakas

JD Martinez

Ozuna

Edwin

 

 

MadBum

Gibson

Hamels

Hill

Porcello

Roark

Odorizzi

Ryu

Wheeler

Wood

Betances

 

I don't think it will (or should be) another offseason of Freddy Galvises and Clayton Richardses.

 

I like Ozuna on that list of bats. Pitchers are more difficult, but if we're not competing next year we probably don't want someone like Hamels who will be 37 before our window starts to open (hopefully). We probably don't want another blister pitcher like Hill either. Bumgarner will be interesting. He hasn't been great the last two years with a number of injuries. However, his velocity is up this year, which is nice. If he gets a 7 year deal at 25M / year or something, you probably want to avoid him. If teams are a little apprehensive, he could come in the 5/100 range, which would be something worth seriously considering. Gibson is kind of interesting. He feels like a guy who will likely provide surplus value.

[BTS]

I like Ozuna on that list of bats. Pitchers are more difficult, but if we're not competing next year we probably don't want someone like Hamels who will be 37 before our window starts to open (hopefully). We probably don't want another blister pitcher like Hill either. Bumgarner will be interesting. He hasn't been great the last two years with a number of injuries. However, his velocity is up this year, which is nice. If he gets a 7 year deal at 25M / year or something, you probably want to avoid him. If teams are a little apprehensive, he could come in the 5/100 range, which would be something worth seriously considering. Gibson is kind of interesting. He feels like a guy who will likely provide surplus value.

 

Gibson seems like a guy who might be a Morton-esque bargain. He seems to fly under the radar, but he's turned himself into a 3-win arm and he's been healthy for most of his career. He'd really stabilize the rotation.

[Spanky99]

The Cubs won 97 games and made the NLCS their first year with Lester.

 

The example you should have used was probably Machado - San Diego although that's a bloated example from a desperate franchise.

 

I want Toronto to spend money and try to compete in 2020, I just don't really think they will for... reasons. I am expecting another Galvis + Shoemaker + Richard etc. type of offseason, with a couple of trades sprinkled in for controllable assets.

 

So to something more of what Jimmyc suggested?

[Ex Player]

Smart try by Gurriel, if he wouldve gotten the runner at 3rd before the Yank crossed homeplate the score would still be 6-6. IMO he wouldnt have gotten the runner at the plate

[Spanky99]

Smart try by Gurriel, if he wouldve gotten the runner at 3rd before the Yank crossed homeplate the score would still be 6-6. IMO he wouldnt have gotten the runner at the plate

 

Dude?!

[Ex Player]

Dude?!

Where's my car??

[Ex Player]

f***, wrong thread

[Terminator]

The Cubs won 97 games and made the NLCS their first year with Lester.

 

The example you should have used was probably Machado - San Diego although that's a bloated example from a desperate franchise.

 

I want Toronto to spend money and try to compete in 2020, I just don't really think they will for... reasons. I am expecting another Galvis + Shoemaker + Richard etc. type of offseason, with a couple of trades sprinkled in for controllable assets.

 

I could see that but it depends on if Shatkins' seat is hot or not. If it is they will try to do more to win next year. If it were completely up to them though I could definitely see them dumpster diving again.

[Jimcanuck]

are you drunk?

 

Haven't been drunk in quite some time. Why? Don't you like Liriano type deals?

[BlueRocky]

When did they do this? I don't think they have. Perhaps some source misinterpreted his quote or mistakenly thought Stroman only had control through 2019.

 

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1789578/report-yankees-only-dealing-frazier-for-pitchers-controlled-beyond-2020

 

 

Ken Rosenthal is reliable. Also confirmed by another reporter on radio interviewed by Jeff Blair last week, don't remember if it was baseball central or another one.

 

"Yankees plan to trade OF Clint Frazier ONLY for a starting pitcher with multiple years of control. They do not intend to give up 4 more years of Frazier for Rentals such as Madison Bumgarner, or even one-plus years they would get for Marcus Stroman or Trevor Bauer."

Edited June 26, 2019 by BlueRocky

[Slade]

Cashman trying to set the market. Atkins would be dumb to trade with him again.

 

Last season everyone was dealt at a position of weakness, we're not in that situation this year. If we can't get a good return on Stroman just hold him and try to extend him, he wants to be here.

[Krylian]

Cashman trying to set the market. Atkins would be dumb to trade with him again.

 

Last season everyone was dealt at a position of weakness, we're not in that situation this year. If we can't get a good return on Stroman just hold him and try to extend him, he wants to be here.

 

He wants to be here if they'll overpay for him. What he really wants is to win. He doesn't want to wait 2-3 years for this team to start looking decent again. It's not like he's a kid anymore. He'll be 30 by then.

[gruber92]

Sorry if already posted, but does anyone know why Giles wasn't used today?

[Abomination]

Sorry if already posted, but does anyone know why Giles wasn't used today?

 

Apparently they were keeping him for the save. He would have come in if we hadn't botched up the second gift the Yankees gave us.

[glory]

Cashman trying to set the market. Atkins would be dumb to trade with him again.

 

Yeah trading with Cashman would be suicide. Atkins is not on his level. It will be bad. Better than the Happ return, but still bad.

 

The key is to find a team that is desperate to make the playoffs due to either a long playoff drought or a GM with his job on the line. The Padres would be a great trading partner if they stay in it. The Phillies will be desperate after signing Harper as they are falling off now after a good start. The Twins might be willing to trade prospects to capitalize on their window this year. I'm sure there are more that I'm missing.

 

The two teams Atkins seems to do ok with in trades is the Cardinals (Woodman for Diaz, Greene/Leone for Grichuk) and Astros (Liriano for Teoscar, Osuna for Giles/Paulino/Perez, Diaz for Thornton). No major wins there but solid trades overall. Both those teams, unlike Cashman, don't mind trading good prospects in trades.

 

Long story short, there are enough teams not named the Yankees to make trades with.