General 2018 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[SaskJaysFan_2]

*checks web address* Weird, I could've sworn for a minute that I'd stumbled onto Reddit. Might be time to pack this place in, boys and girls.

 

Oh boy, don't do that. We'd all miss you!

[Jimcanuck]

No, I thought I clearly stated that in this specific situation or outside the box situations..

 

If Atkins was GM in 2014/2015 do we get Donaldson in trade.. I say hell no.

 

Does Atkins get LAA to take Wells contract.. Highly doubt it.

 

Does Atkins sign Vlad, or Martin in the first place.. to Vlad I highly doubt it and to Martin I doubt it.

 

AA had some strong points and tenacity.. He is/was very creative.. They basically changed the rules after AA landed a draft pick out of that crap catcher from Colorado that he then dumped.. Can't recall his name...

 

Atkins has made some good draft picks and decent trades. However, I have so far seen nothing outside the box or even creative from Shakins... Even the way they talk is boring as f*** corporate BS and if we made the word Process into a drinking game I would be drunk and Spanky would just stay passed out..

 

So, having said that. I would be very surprised to see them get rid of both contracts.. Plenty willing to give credit if they surprise me..

 

PS: One more thing ref Shatkins... I doubt Shapiro approves the prospect capitol to get Miller down the stretch in 2016 if he was still there.. Miller was KEY to them getting back to the WS.

 

You are just cherry picking stuff, and not very well. Like any GM, AA made some moves that turned out well, and other moves that turned out terrible. Overall he was OK.

 

A reasonable assessment says Shatkins has the better track record at building a sustainable winning team. Sorry.

[Carlos Danger]

You are just cherry picking stuff, and not very well. Like any GM, AA made some moves that turned out well, and other moves that turned out terrible. Overall he was OK.

 

A reasonable assessment says Shatkins has the better track record at building a sustainable winning team. Sorry.

 

I was not making a comparison as to GMs.. I was stating specifically, that if you have two overpaid guys you want to somehow get rid of, and someone says there is no way.. I would rather have AA for that.. That simple.. Then I gave examples of AA being creative or persistent..

 

It has been a while since Wells, so I Goggled it to refresh my memory.. It wasn't just the Angels GM wanted Wells and AA did nothing.. Look at the return and money transfer AA got.. It was not just I will take him, pay all his salary, and give you Napoli...etc.. (That was bad move by AA) But, we ended up keeping EE, so it took the sting out a bit..

 

Also, while I like the direction we are going on the Jays. A lot of our future is from AA. AND, it is still all hope, we haven't done s*** yet.. We could very well be the Detroit Tigers.. Look at the roster the Tigers had.. I think of the Tigers because Vlad is always compared to Cabrera.... So, I hope, I like what I see, I am optimistic.. but the ultimate evaluation will be results and then we can judge Shatkins vs AA.

[P2F]

Oh boy, don't do that. We'd all miss you!

 

So I can count on your vote for best poster this year?

[Jimcanuck]

I was not making a comparison as to GMs.. I was stating specifically, that if you have two overpaid guys you want to somehow get rid of, and someone says there is no way.. I would rather have AA for that.. That simple.. Then I gave examples of AA being creative or persistent..

 

It has been a while since Wells, so I Goggled it to refresh my memory.. It wasn't just the Angels GM wanted Wells and AA did nothing.. Look at the return and money transfer AA got.. It was not just I will take him, pay all his salary, and give you Napoli...etc.. (That was bad move by AA) But, we ended up keeping EE, so it took the sting out a bit..

 

Also, while I like the direction we are going on the Jays. A lot of our future is from AA. AND, it is still all hope, we haven't done s*** yet.. We could very well be the Detroit Tigers.. Look at the roster the Tigers had.. I think of the Tigers because Vlad is always compared to Cabrera.... So, I hope, I like what I see, I am optimistic.. but the ultimate evaluation will be results and then we can judge Shatkins vs AA.

 

We cannot use the Cleveland results to judge Shatkins?

 

Also, to think that because AA once fleeced a dumb Angels GM he could do it again with Martin and Tulo is ludicrous.

[Spanky99]

Jim Canuck.... Thank you.

[Spanky99]

Jim Canuck.... Thank you.

 

[Carlos Danger]

We cannot use the Cleveland results to judge Shatkins?

 

Also, to think that because AA once fleeced a dumb Angels GM he could do it again with Martin and Tulo is ludicrous.

 

We were all talking about Martin and Morales.. I was not discussing Tulo. They didn't call AA the Ninja for nothing. Hence I gave more than one example.

 

The Indians were a sustainable team until Shatkins left and it was after they left they made the moves that put them in the WS.. We cant't say if those key moves would have been made under Shatkins.. Not arguing they had a good base, but it wasn't Shatkins that made the key moves that finally got them to the WS.

[Captain Adama]

We were all talking about Martin and Morales.. I was not discussing Tulo. They didn't call AA the Ninja for nothing. Hence I gave more than one example.

 

The Indians were a sustainable team until Shatkins left and it was after they left they made the moves that put them in the WS.. We cant't say if those key moves would have been made under Shatkins.. Not arguing they had a good base, but it wasn't Shatkins that made the key moves that finally got them to the WS.

 

So the management that was picked by and worked with Shapiro for years decided to put pieces in when they had a good core in place.

 

Yup, no way the current Jays' FO is even capable of that.

[Carlos Danger]

So the management that was picked by and worked with Shapiro for years decided to put pieces in when they had a good core in place.

 

Yup, no way the current Jays' FO is even capable of that.

 

Pretty sure I said things look optimistic, but we have zero sustained successful major league results so far from this regime.

 

So to say that the curent regime is better then AA is a false narrative because is so far it is only in theory and farm system rankings.

 

I also have said repeatedly I dont think Shapiro gives up the prospect capital to get Miller down the stretch and IMO Indians dont advance to WS game 7 without Miller.

[Bobthe4th]

It seems most people on here are advocating for trading for Martin for 40 man roster space. If you do want to eat a substantial amount of money to clear a 40-man spot, why not eat $8M of Morales' salary? I'm sure some team will take him for ~$4M

 

No one will want to spend even $4m on Morales for the same reason we want to move him. He’s not good enough to justify sacrificing roster flexibility when he can only realistically play DH. Martin would actually have value to a team like the Astros or Angels who need a catcher.

[glory]

Morales will have to be DFA’d and no team is going to take even part of his salary. Some team will sign him to the minimum once he’s released but anything more is asking for too much. He’s a replacement level league average bat who can’t play a position or run.

 

Martin will def have value somewhere but the Jays will have to eat up a large chunk. The Yanks traded McCann and ate up a small part of his remaining money when Sanchez was ready so it’s not like smart GMs haven’t done it.

[Bobthe4th]

Morales will have to be DFA’d and no team is going to take even part of his salary. Some team will sign him to the minimum once he’s released but anything more is asking for too much. He’s a replacement level league average bat who can’t play a position or run.

 

Martin will def have value somewhere but the Jays will have to eat up a large chunk. The Yanks traded McCann and ate up a small part of his remaining money when Sanchez was ready so it’s not like smart GMs haven’t done it.

 

Yeah, although TBF the Yankees have a much bigger budget.

[abola2121]

Is anyone here even slightly interested in Gibbons' successor?

[Abomination]

Is anyone here even slightly interested in Gibbons' successor?

 

There's several hundred posts in Gibby replacement related threads, ones that you likely had to skip over to post in this one.

[Spanky99]

Oh boy, don't do that. We'd all miss you!

 

We would though???

[SaskJaysFan_2]

So I can count on your vote for best poster this year?

 

Oh for sure. But only if you promise not to leave. Can't even handle the thought.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

100% of us are.

 

If you had a test to measure this percentage, it'd be really cool.

[P2F]

Oh for sure. But only if you promise not to leave. Can't even handle the thought.

 

Thanks, man. I'm not sure what I ever did to you, but I'm glad to know where I stand.

[Dick_Pole]

Cleveland is a 4th place team in the A.L. East. The biggest contributor to the Indians being a sustained winner and the Jays being considered also-rans is Cleveland being located two degrees in longitude west of Toronto. That being said, Shapiro did a fine job in turning that s***** organization into something reasonable while he was there. I'm optimistic that he can do a lot more now that he is not working in America's garbage dump.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Thanks, man. I'm not sure what I ever did to you, but I'm glad to know where I stand.

 

We stand together as Jays fans. Sometimes you won't agree with what everyone posts I'm sure. But keep in mind, with the exception of trolls, we may all have things to bring to the table.

[Boxcar]

This is a silly discussion. If you can move one or both of Martin and Tulo by eating most of their contract, you do it. They are a liability, if we can move some of it then great. But if you have to start adding assets to move them then you don't. They can rot on the bench and run out their contracts, worst case scenario they sulk and we send them home.

 

Oh yes, paying up to what, 15 million? for Martin to play for a different team in lieu of having a really strong backup that can cover C, 3B, 1B and in a pinch, SS and 2B while mentoring our very promising rookie catcher is definitely NOT the laughably silly position in this scenario.

[BTS]

I kinda think people are being too hard on the idea of moving Martin and eating, say, $15M to pick up a couple of prospects.

 

Let's say Houston offers to pay $5M of his salary while offering a couple of 21-year olds who would rank 20 and 30 in our system. I don't think it's an obvious "no", though I'd lean towards keeping him. It's at least a good enough offer to warrant a serious conversation with Martin about where he'd prefer to spend what might be his final year.

[L54]

If Martin asks to be moved to a contender that’s fine. He’s paid his dues and I wouldn’t blame him if he said he wanted to go and try to win. But wanting to move him for the sake of saving 5M and getting a C prospect is just a lazy way to arm chair GM.

[glory]

If Martin asks to be moved to a contender that’s fine. He’s paid his dues and I wouldn’t blame him if he said he wanted to go and try to win. But wanting to move him for the sake of saving 5M and getting a C prospect is just a lazy way to arm chair GM.

 

If you're moving him, it's entirely to a) free up the starting catcher spot for Jansen, get any assets you can for someone who isn't going to yield draft compensation after the year, and c) do a veteran player a favor by trading him to a contender where he could start (rather than back up a rookie on a rebuilding team).

 

If Houston offers a couple of low minors types who would rank 20-30 in our system and we have to eat up $15m, then do it. Why wouldn't you? Keeping Martin isn't going to help us get to the playoffs, and using him as a backup is a slap in the face to him. Not sure why people are so defensive about a trade like that. Don't give him away for s***, but a trade while eating some money is not a bad thing.

Edited October 20, 2018 by glory

[L54]

If you're moving him, it's entirely to a) free up the starting catcher spot for Jansen, get any assets you can for someone who isn't going to yield draft compensation after the year, and c) do a veteran player a favor by trading him to a contender where he could start (rather than back up a rookie on a rebuilding team).

 

If Houston offers a couple of low minors types who would rank 20-30 in our system and we have to eat up $15m, then do it. Why wouldn't you? Keeping Martin isn't going to help us get to the playoffs, and using him as a backup is a slap in the face to him. Not sure why people are so defensive about a trade like that. Don't give him away for s***, but a trade while eating some money is not a bad thing.

 

Martin has openly expressed a willingness to play in a super utility role

 

And, with one year left to go in his contract, Martin said versatility might be his best chance to prolong his career.

 

“I can play just about any position out there,” Martin said. “It gives me an opportunity to get on the field and give somebody a breather somewhere. So kind of being a super utility, it can be in my back pocket if I need it.

 

“I’m not getting any younger, that’s for sure. I still feel great, I still feel athletic and can move around and stuff. But there’s definitely kids knocking at the door that definitely have a lot of upside and potential. I definitely realize that.”

 

There's also a point of diminishing returns trying to milk every last asset whenever someone is a pending FA. As I've stated before, there's value in putting a decent team and leadership around your franchise prospect. I refuse to fap to the idea of paying 15M for a couple of Forrest Wall types at the expense of Russell Martin.

Edited October 20, 2018 by L54

[Brenner]

Martin has openly expressed a willingness to play in a super utility role

 

I am also willing to play a super utility role for the Blue Jays. They don't even have to pay me $20,000,000.

[Jimcanuck]

Ridiculous train of discussion. Martin is not an untouchable lol

[BTS]

Ridiculous train of discussion. Martin is not an untouchable lol

 

I don’t really understand it either. A lot of good posters are weirdly hostile to the idea.

[Jimcanuck]

I don’t really understand it either. A lot of good posters are weirdly hostile to the idea.

 

Can only suppose they are skeptical of getting a return exceeding the value to the Jays. Like, the 'stro's can just sign Ramos rather than give up assets to get an old catcher.