General 2018 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[MarcoSanchez]

Is Tulo still on the team? Ages since I heard anything

[Olerud363]

In his defence, he did put together some really good teams that would have won at least one title in the other five divisions. The one that hurts the most was 2006, they let Josh f***ing towers go out there start after start and getting destroyed. That team would have challenged for the division and WC if they pulled him early, I never understood why they didn't pull the plug on him. Dude was throwing meat ball after meat ball.

 

1998 - .280 .352 .457 883 runs

2003 - .279 .349 .455 894 runs

2006 - .284 .348 .463 809 runs

2015 - .269 .340 .457 891 runs

 

I always thought the 2006 team was one of the better teams we had -- except 80 runs went missing. I don't remember it talked about at the time, but if you look at the individual stats they were awesome. Alex Rios breakout, good Vernon Wells, Troy Glauss prime year, Lyle Overbay best year.

 

Reed Johnson hitting like April Kevin Pillar all year. Greg Zaun, probably all roided up but hitting well, Benjie Molonie... Frank Cat.

 

hmm...

 

1. 80 runs just gone missing - stats close to 99, 03, and 15 but runs disapeared into the ether

2. Johny Mac/Russ Adams - Russ Adams awful, John Mac not that good despite perception

3. Josh Towers as you mention.

[Olerud363]

In his defence, he did put together some really good teams that would have won at least one title in the other five divisions. The one that hurts the most was 2006, they let Josh f***ing towers go out there start after start and getting destroyed. That team would have challenged for the division and WC if they pulled him early, I never understood why they didn't pull the plug on him. Dude was throwing meat ball after meat ball.

 

Alternative Universe - Koskie 3b, Glauss ss - does it work?? Do Jays win??

 

Yes - a) Koskie Glauss left side of infield > Glauss Adams/Mac

Koskie doesn't bump his head as he's not in the national league that day

c) Whatever weird randomness stole the 80 runs is disrupted because everything is just a bit differnt

d) Koskie add 50 more runs > Adams/Mac (2006 Jays score 900+)

[Olerud363]

Alternative Universe - Koskie 3b, Glauss ss - does it work?? Do Jays win??

 

Yes - a) Koskie Glauss left side of infield > Glauss Adams/Mac

Koskie doesn't bump his head as he's not in the national league that day

c) Whatever weird randomness stole the 80 runs is disrupted because everything is just a bit differnt

d) Koskie add 50 more runs > Adams/Mac (2006 Jays score 900+)

Alternative Universe 2

 

No Lyle Overbay Trade

 

a) Koskie/Glauss play first (again Koskie doesn't bump head, so plays 130 games or whatever he would ussually play without concussion)

David Bush replaces Josh towers

 

Do Jays win in 2006??

[King]

Yeah thats not an updated list bro lol. Read any one of the reports and it says where they expect the players to start in 2018. Connor Greene is on the list too and he isnt even in the organization anymore.

 

The list is dated July 2, 2018 and these team lists are BA front page. In other words, BA sucks.

Jim is a dumbass. It's pretty obvious that list is from November or December. "He should head to _____ in 2018." at the end of every writeup is a dead giveaway. It has Edward Olivares and Conner Greene on it, both traded.

 

Some people shouldn't be allowed to use the internet.

[MarcoSanchez]

Alternative Universe - Koskie 3b, Glauss ss - does it work?? Do Jays win??

 

Yes - a) Koskie Glauss left side of infield > Glauss Adams/Mac

Koskie doesn't bump his head as he's not in the national league that day

c) Whatever weird randomness stole the 80 runs is disrupted because everything is just a bit differnt

d) Koskie add 50 more runs > Adams/Mac (2006 Jays score 900+)

 

JP's biggest problem was depth. He didn't understand it, and didn't accumulate it. The lineup was good enough to carry Jmac,

 

Towers killed this team that year, i remmeber at one poin he was 0-7 with an era above 10. Rest of the starters were no better, even Doc did not have his typical Cy Young year. AJ was hurt a third of his starts, and on the backend we had Gustavo Chacin and Shaun Marcum. 2006 was the year we could have gotten 90 wins. It just didn't fall in our favor, but no way Towers should have been allowed to go out there start after start and get his balls handed to him.

[BTS]

I still think JPR did a good job with what he had to work with. He assembled some legitimately good teams under a payroll that was completely dwarfed by Boston and New York, and was asked to compete in an environment with only one WC. Those same teams in the NL would have probably won multiple division titles.

 

He wasn't given any money to spend on the draft or international free agency.

[Laika]

I still think JPR did a good job with what he had to work with. He assembled some legitimately good teams under a payroll that was completely dwarfed by Boston and New York, and was asked to compete in an environment with only one WC. Those same teams in the NL would have probably won multiple division titles.

 

He wasn't given any money to spend on the draft or international free agency.

 

He would have been complicit in that though, at least to some extent.

 

You could argue that it's any GM's job to advocate up the chain for appropriate types of funding.

[Krylian]

He would have been complicit in that though, at least to some extent.

 

You could argue that it's any GM's job to advocate up the chain for appropriate types of funding.

 

Agreed. His drafts were also extremely College heavy so it seems like he wasn't big on committing big dollars to teenagers.

[burlingtonbandit]

I still think JPR did a good job with what he had to work with. He assembled some legitimately good teams under a payroll that was completely dwarfed by Boston and New York, and was asked to compete in an environment with only one WC. Those same teams in the NL would have probably won multiple division titles.

 

He wasn't given any money to spend on the draft or international free agency.

 

Should have presented to ownership/president why they needed to spend in the draft and in IFA. Part of what makes a GM good is communication.

[Krylian]

Jossephang Bernhardt wasn't the home run JPR thought he was going to be?

[glory]

Agreed. His drafts were also extremely College heavy so it seems like he wasn't big on committing big dollars to teenagers.

 

Wasn’t there a story that Godfrey was against going overslot? I don’t think JP had much of a choice, especially before the draft pools we see now.

[BTS]

Should have presented to ownership/president why they needed to spend in the draft and in IFA. Part of what makes a GM good is communication.

 

I'm sure he oversold his ability to compete on a small budget in order to get the job. Reality is that we could have done a lot worse during those years than the JPR front office, especially if you don't speculate about how much more some generic replacement would have convinced ownership to spend on prospects.

[Laika]

I'm sure he oversold his ability to compete on a small budget in order to get the job. Reality is that we could have done a lot worse during those years than the JPR front office, especially if you don't speculate about how much more some generic replacement would have convinced ownership to spend on prospects.

 

JPR was a replacement level GM. It's so obvious.

 

To say that the team could have done a lot worse is not a compliment. You can also do a lot worse than Ryan Goins on the field and at any given moment he could be one of the absolute worst active position players in the league.

 

You can also, I'll add, argue that it's not even appropriate to just look at their year-to-year win total. The team probably needed a nuclear winter type blow-up during his tenure and he didn't do it. Winning 82 games and finishing 15 back for 9 seasons in a row is arguably one of the worst possible things you can do in this league.

[Dr. Dinger]

JPR was a replacement level GM. It's so obvious.

 

To say that the team could have done a lot worse is not a compliment. You can also do a lot worse than Ryan Goins on the field and at any given moment he could be one of the absolute worst active position players in the league.

 

You can also, I'll add, argue that it's not even appropriate to just look at their year-to-year win total. The team probably needed a nuclear winter type blow-up during his tenure and he didn't do it. Winning 82 games and finishing 15 back for 9 seasons in a row is arguably one of the worst possible things you can do in this league.

 

But I think you have to admit he's pretty good-looking for a bald guy.

[BTS]

JPR was a replacement level GM. It's so obvious.

 

To say that the team could have done a lot worse is not a compliment. You can also do a lot worse than Ryan Goins on the field and at any given moment he could be one of the absolute worst active position players in the league.

 

I meant it in the sense that I think there's a good chance his replacement would have been worse at the job than he was. He certainly had his warts, but I think he was mostly competent at a time when there weren't many GMs who would have had even the modest success he did given his constraints.

[Laika]

I meant it in the sense that I think there's a good chance his replacement would have been worse at the job than he was. He certainly had his warts, but I think he was mostly competent at a time when there weren't many GMs who would have had even the modest success he did given his constraints.

 

Literally anybody could have never made the playoffs, shed fans like dandruff for a decade, and then handed off a turd of an organization with catastrophically awful jerseys to their predecessor.

[Dr. Dinger]

Did JPR say "It's not a lie if we know the truth," or am I making things up in my old age? Because that was a f***ing awesome quote.

[Krylian]

Did JPR say "It's not a lie if we know the truth," or am I making things up in my old age? Because that was a f***ing awesome quote.

 

Yes. Can't rememeber who's injury it was regarding...BJ Ryan?

 

He also came out and said that Adam Dunn didn't like baseball.

[BTS]

Literally anybody could have never made the playoffs, shed fans like dandruff for a decade, and then handed off a turd of an organization with catastrophically awful jerseys to their predecessor.

 

Yeah, sure. But I don't think many GMs would have made the playoff in his shoes - he was given the impossible task of winning in the ALE on a small budget without being allowed to tear it down completely to amass talent.

[BTS]

Did JPR say "It's not a lie if we know the truth," or am I making things up in my old age? Because that was a f***ing awesome quote.

 

He most certainly did say that.

[Abomination]

Guilmet designated, Mayza optioned, Santos and Rhiner Cruz have been called up.

[MarcoSanchez]

That offseason when he signed AJ and BJ was f***ing terrible in hindsight. Not only did we overpay, we ended up giving an optout if he was any good. Money could have been better spent, and yet.

[BTS]

The AJ Burnett contract worked out very well. The Ryan deal not so much.

[Dr. Dinger]

He also came out and said that Adam Dunn didn't like baseball.

 

Which was true but not really relevant or professional of him to say publicly. Clearly there was some overture to Dunn that was extended and rejected prior to that.

[Dr. Dinger]

The AJ Burnett contract worked out very well. The Ryan deal not so much.

 

Yeah, A.J. Burnett gave us 10.4 WAR for $28.6M across three years, which is fantastic enough on it's own, but then we also got Noah Syndergaard (via James Paxton) as compensation for his departure. That was an amazing free agent contract for the Blue Jays.

[Dr. Dinger]

B.J. Ryan was outstanding his first year and then got derailed by injuries. Given where the team was on the win curve, the additions of Ryan and Burnett were pretty reasonable, and if Ryan had progressed along a more traditional decline, that contract would have been fine.

[BTS]

B.J. Ryan was outstanding his first year and then got derailed by injuries. Given where the team was on the win curve, the additions of Ryan and Burnett were pretty reasonable, and if Ryan had progressed along a more traditional decline, that contract would have been fine.

 

Looking at the Ryan situation, he was entering his age-30 season and was coming off 3 straight seasons of 2.5+ fWAR. Signed for 5 years, 47M. Would have been analogous to the Indians giving Kenley Jansen 5/80 or something last offseason.

[Brownie19]

Yeah, sure. But I don't think many GMs would have made the playoff in his shoes - he was given the impossible task of winning in the ALE on a small budget without being allowed to tear it down completely to amass talent.

 

My memory probably isn't that good, but didn't JPR have a decent salary to work with? I mean he wasn't the Yanks or Red Sox, who were spending like crazy at that time, but once JPR left, didn't AA come in, clean house, reduce payroll significantly, rebuild the farm system and produce similar results to JPR? Perhaps by that time, baseball had chance some and teams couldn't just spend to buy talent in the draft.

 

I really hated JPR.

[MarcoSanchez]

My memory probably isn't that good, but didn't JPR have a decent salary to work with? I mean he wasn't the Yanks or Red Sox, who were spending like crazy at that time, but once JPR left, didn't AA come in, clean house, reduce payroll significantly, rebuild the farm system and produce similar results to JPR? Perhaps by that time, baseball had chance some and teams couldn't just spend to buy talent in the draft.

 

I really hated JPR.

 

It was pretty low when he came in ~45M. I remember him making a being deal about Delgado making a significant chunk of that. Then in 2006 Rogers committed to spending 210M over the next three years, 70M a year for 3 years