Trade Josh Donaldson?

[Abomination]

True but Chapman isn't just elite, Miller isn't just elite, they're basically the best of the best of the best and have been for years. Jansen and Betances probably round out the top tier of relievers over the past 3 seasons that Osuna has been around.

 

The Chapman and Miller trades both netted a top 30ish prospect and some throw ins. I don't think Washington would then find it agreeable to trade a top 10 prospect who they're probably counting in to fill part of Harpers shoes if he leaves, for more of a package that arguably the best 2 relievers in the game went for.... even if he's under control for three more seasons after this one. His arbitration deals will actually cost them money because he's got dem savez!

 

Chapman was a rental they resigned,, but Miller was under control.

 

For whatever it's worth, Osuna has basically been equal to Miller this year, and may still have more upside than what he's already shown. Miller had what, 2.5 years of control for ~23M? I'm not sure what Osuna makes in his final arbitration year, but it's probably not too different for 3.5 years of control. Plus, Washington doesn't need to add payroll this year to get him, which may allow them to add someone else at the deadline as well.

 

Frazier was in AAA when he was traded (although just promoted), which makes him a little less risky, and Sheffield was a top 100 prospect as well. As good a prospect as Robles is, he is in A+, and probably only has average power potential, although that might play up a bit due to great hand eye.

 

I can certainly understand why the Nats wouldn't want to do the trade, but my point was that I think it's a reasonable and fair one to make, for both teams considering where they are and what their needs are.

[John_Havok]

For whatever it's worth, Osuna has basically been equal to Miller this year, and may still have more upside than what he's already shown. Miller had what, 2.5 years of control for ~23M? I'm not sure what Osuna makes in his final arbitration year, but it's probably not too different for 3.5 years of control. Plus, Washington doesn't need to add payroll this year to get him, which may allow them to add someone else at the deadline as well.

 

Frazier was in AAA when he was traded (although just promoted), which makes him a little less risky, and Sheffield was a top 100 prospect as well. As good a prospect as Robles is, he is in A+, and probably only has average power potential, although that might play up a bit due to great hand eye.

 

I can certainly understand why the Nats wouldn't want to do the trade, but my point was that I think it's a reasonable and fair one to make, for both teams considering where they are and what their needs are.

 

Flip the script. If the Jays were in Washingtons position and needed a closer to help cement a playoff run.

 

Would you want to trade Vlad Guerrero or Bo (assuming both are 19 and 20 and in High A and both are ranked top 10-15 in baseball consensus) ... for .. say...Chris Devenski? .... Corey Knebel?

[Abomination]

Flip the script. If the Jays were in Washingtons position and needed a closer to help cement a playoff run.

 

Would you want to trade Vlad Guerrero or Bo (assuming both are 19 and 20 and in High A and both are ranked top 10-15 in baseball consensus) ... for .. say...Chris Devenski? .... Corey Knebel?

 

Neither of those relievers have quite the same profile (bigger questions about both, either in terms of command or whether they could handle closing), but would I trade a Guerrero or Bo for Osuna in Washington's position? Yes. I wouldn't be happy about it mind you.

[Bobthe4th]

Interesting read

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-seek-immediate-long-term-help-deadline/

 

what i got out of it is that it's on the fly rebuild; if there's an opportunity to get better, whether it's long or short term, you do it

 

the not trading JD part, i don't know if davidi is just reading into it or shapiro actually said it

 

Music to my ears, quotes from Shapiro:

 

"I think there’s still quite a bit of talent here, both veterans and guys in the prime of their careers."

 

"We clearly need to continue to compete, we clearly need to continue to get more talent around those existing players but yes, we have enough of a base of talent here to still contend."

 

"I do think we can build that team without that cycle (i.e. years of tanking) occurring here.... and I still believe we can get through that transition in an expedited time frame."

 

Retool not rebuild!

[Jimcanuck]

Music to my ears, quotes from Shapiro:

 

"I think there’s still quite a bit of talent here, both veterans and guys in the prime of their careers."

 

"We clearly need to continue to compete, we clearly need to continue to get more talent around those existing players but yes, we have enough of a base of talent here to still contend."

 

"I do think we can build that team without that cycle (i.e. years of tanking) occurring here.... and I still believe we can get through that transition in an expedited time frame."

 

Retool not rebuild!

 

aka 1995-2012

[Cleveland Steamer]

As per Jon Morosi, the Cardinals have interest in Josh Donaldson.

[Angrioter]

As per Jon Morosi, the Cardinals have interest in Josh Donaldson.

 

Al Reyes is hurt

[Dr. Dinger]

Obviously, Alex Reyes would need to be in any deal. They are a bit lacking in positional prospects, however.

[Dr. Dinger]

Al Reyes is hurt

 

Which is maybe the only reason he'd be available.

[Angrioter]

Obviously, Alex Reyes would need to be in any deal. They are a bit lacking in positional prospects, however.

 

Carson Kelly is a good B prospect

[BTS]

Music to my ears, quotes from Shapiro:

 

"I think there’s still quite a bit of talent here, both veterans and guys in the prime of their careers."

 

"We clearly need to continue to compete, we clearly need to continue to get more talent around those existing players but yes, we have enough of a base of talent here to still contend."

 

"I do think we can build that team without that cycle (i.e. years of tanking) occurring here.... and I still believe we can get through that transition in an expedited time frame."

 

Retool not rebuild!

 

I don't really agree with him. What pieces from the MLB roster look like contributors in 2019 and beyond?

 

- Pillar (will be 30 and probably somewhere between 4th OF and 2-win starter)

- Travis (if he's not dead)

- Stroman

- Sanchez

- Osuna

 

I just don't see a foundation here. Two average (maybe) position players, a couple of non-ace starters we hope stay healthy, and a closer. I know Alford, Vlad, and Bichette are nice prospects, but I think I'd prefer to see them supplemented with a bunch of other elite young talent than spend the 2-3 years putting lipstick on this pig.

 

I'd be looking to move pretty much everyone except maybe Stroman. But possibly also Stroman.

[BTS]

Obviously, Alex Reyes would need to be in any deal. They are a bit lacking in positional prospects, however.

 

Not really interested in a C or TJS pitcher as the centerpiece in a Donaldson deal tbh. I think we could do better elsewhere.

[Dr. Dinger]

I don't really agree with him. What pieces from the MLB roster look like contributors in 2019 and beyond?

 

- Pillar (will be 30 and probably somewhere between 4th OF and 2-win starter)

- Travis (if he's not dead)

- Stroman

- Sanchez

- Osuna

 

I just don't see a foundation here. Two average (maybe) position players, a couple of non-ace starters we hope stay healthy, and a closer. I know Alford, Vlad, and Bichette are nice prospects, but I think I'd prefer to see them supplemented with a bunch of other elite young talent than spend the 2-3 years putting lipstick on this pig.

 

I'd be looking to move pretty much everyone except maybe Stroman. But possibly also Stroman.

 

I think the main roster player you're forgetting about is ~$100M to play with.

[BTS]

I think the main roster player you're forgetting about is ~$100M to play with.

 

That's why I think the turnaround can be quick, and permanent. Imagine a core of, say:

 

Stroman

Sanchez

Guerrero

Bichette

Gurriel

Robles (Osuna)

Reyes (Donaldson)

Kelly (Donaldson)

Franklin Perez (Happ)

 

+ whatever guys like Smith, Smoak, Estrada, and Bautista bring back. Don't really care to debate the hypothetical returns, but there's an opportunity for a huge influx of talent, which could be supplemented with like $100M in payroll flexibility. At this point I'd prefer to cash in those chips than run the washed up geezers out there again in 2018 and pray for 87 wins.

[Bobthe4th]

I don't really agree with him. What pieces from the MLB roster look like contributors in 2019 and beyond?

 

- Pillar (will be 30 and probably somewhere between 4th OF and 2-win starter)

- Travis (if he's not dead)

- Stroman

- Sanchez

- Osuna

 

I just don't see a foundation here. Two average (maybe) position players, a couple of non-ace starters we hope stay healthy, and a closer. I know Alford, Vlad, and Bichette are nice prospects, but I think I'd prefer to see them supplemented with a bunch of other elite young talent than spend the 2-3 years putting lipstick on this pig.

 

I'd be looking to move pretty much everyone except maybe Stroman. But possibly also Stroman.

 

I'd add Biagini from the MLB roster. Plus Gurriel, Smith Jr and SRF as prospects who have a good chance of being regulars by 2019.

 

This is supplemented by:

 

Donaldson either gets resigned, or traded for a high return;

Martin's contract doesn't expire until 2020 giving 3 years for a replacement to either develop or be acquired;

assets gained from trading shorter term contracts like Happ, Pearce and Smoak;

free agents / MLB for MLB trades;

other prospects (that aren't as highly rated right now) making it.

[Brownie19]

I don't really agree with him. What pieces from the MLB roster look like contributors in 2019 and beyond?

 

- Pillar (will be 30 and probably somewhere between 4th OF and 2-win starter)

- Travis (if he's not dead)

- Stroman

- Sanchez

- Osuna

 

I just don't see a foundation here. Two average (maybe) position players, a couple of non-ace starters we hope stay healthy, and a closer. I know Alford, Vlad, and Bichette are nice prospects, but I think I'd prefer to see them supplemented with a bunch of other elite young talent than spend the 2-3 years putting lipstick on this pig.

 

I'd be looking to move pretty much everyone except maybe Stroman. But possibly also Stroman.

 

I completely agree with this. Do it right. There is no base to band-aid around unfortunately.

[Bobthe4th]

Trading Donaldson could easily fit into a retool if he brings back a near MLB ready 3B like Devers. Unless JD signs a team friendly contract in the offseason (and I don't see why he would) shopping him to see what's out there is sensible.

 

Obligatory everyone is available for the right price, but I'd be disappointed if any of Stroman, Sanchez or Osuna were traded.

[BTS]

I'd add Biagini from the MLB roster. Plus Gurriel, Smith Jr and SRF as prospects who have a good chance of being regulars by 2019.

 

This is supplemented by:

 

Donaldson either gets resigned, or traded for a high return;

Martin's contract doesn't expire until 2020 giving 3 years for a replacement to either develop or be acquired;

assets gained from trading shorter term contracts like Happ, Pearce and Smoak;

free agents / MLB for MLB trades;

other prospects (that aren't as highly rated right now) making it.

 

Biagini is a reliever who isn't elite. I wouldn't be counting on him as an important piece in 2019. And I don't really think Smith or SRF have a good chance to be regulars in 2019. Unless by good chance you mean like 10% chance they're league average players.

[Dr. Dinger]

Trading Donaldson could easily fit into a retool if he brings back a near MLB ready 3B like Devers.

 

I would trade Donaldson straight up for Devers. Raffy is MLB-ready and has all the hallmarks of an elite hitter. Dombrowski would have to be pretty stupid to trade 6+ years of Devers for 1.5 years of Donaldson, IMO, especially since Donaldson may already be starting to decline. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Slade]

I would trade Donaldson straight up for Devers. Raffy is MLB-ready and has all the hallmarks of an elite hitter. Dombrowski would have to be pretty stupid to trade 6+ years of Devers for 1.5 years of Donaldson, IMO, especially since Donaldson may already be starting to decline. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I would take Devers and Groome but I don't think the Jays make a AL East trade.

[Dr. Dinger]

I don't think the Jays make a AL East trade.

 

I don't think Shapiro or Atkins would care about this at all. If anything, the Jays would love to siphon future assets from their division rivals for a short-term augmentation.

[HERPDERP]

Trading JD to Boston would sting at first but eh, I doubt he'd resign there anyway. And even if he did, it would hurt the Red Sox.

[Bobthe4th]

Biagini is a reliever who isn't elite. I wouldn't be counting on him as an important piece in 2019. And I don't really think Smith or SRF have a good chance to be regulars in 2019. Unless by good chance you mean like 10% chance they're league average players.

 

I think you're being overly pessimistic for 2019 in calling Stroman and Sanchez non aces, Biagini a reliever, and the odds on Smith Jr and SRF amounting to anything.

 

That's the main difference between us. I'd support a full rebuild in the right circumstances, I don't believe that's the case right now. If Travis never recovers, if Biagini flames out as a starter next year, if some of the better prospects bust, if other things go wrong then maybe that changes.

[Slade]

But the Red Sox have the means to sign him long term and if JD goal is to win they provide that opportunity for the foreseeable future. Why wouldn't he resign?

[Dr. Dinger]

But the Red Sox have the means to sign him long term and if JD goal is to win they provide that opportunity for the foreseeable future. Why wouldn't he resign?

 

We can't stop him from signing there next year anyway. Whatever happens beyond his current contract is immaterial to the trade.

[Bobthe4th]

I would trade Donaldson straight up for Devers. Raffy is MLB-ready and has all the hallmarks of an elite hitter. Dombrowski would have to be pretty stupid to trade 6+ years of Devers for 1.5 years of Donaldson, IMO, especially since Donaldson may already be starting to decline. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

You could argue either side could win in a JD for Devers trade. From the Red Sox perspective, 3B is a big weakness, JD solves that for a minimum of this year and next, when they've got to be thinking about challenging for the World Series. Devers may never make it to the Show as a regular, and the odds are against him ever being MVP elite worthy.

 

Conversely, JD's inevitable decline could already have started, and Devers could turn into an all star every year from 2018 to 2028.

 

That's just a risk you have to take when making trades, it's rare you get a Shelby Miller type one sided heist.

[G-Snarls]

From the daily "throw it all against the wall and see what sticks" department

 

[Spanky99]

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/240544220/blue-jays-may-be-ready-to-sell-at-deadline/

[burlingtonbandit]

I agree its actually an advantage to the team selling when trading in your own division. One thing for certain is I want to target position players in any trade. That's why a trade with the Cardinals doesn't excite me.

[Jonn]

The only problem with trading Donaldson now is if he's healthy. Some serious doubts that he is. But they have to trade him now unless they go on an unreal July run. Which is unlikely with the quality of opponents. That Astros series is shaping up to look like a nightmare.