Jays vs. Indians ALCS Discussion

[jays4life19]

Good job Admin for starting this.

 

And Rusty_Savage, KK are spot on.

[closetjaysfan]

I always thought people from India were "Indian" and Natives were Natives or First Nations.

 

and if Cleveland chose to change their mascot/logo to a caricature of someone from India... then what?

[Grant77]

and if Cleveland chose to change their mascot/logo to a caricature of someone from India... then what?

 

http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.7909104.7213/fc,220x200,white.jpg

[Caper]

It's not offensive. It's just not true. Fighting anti-semitism is a huge thing. If the team were called the Kikes or something, you can bet they would have changed it by now because the Jewish community has a much more effective lobby around these issues than Native Americans have.

EDIT: Upon further reflection... Your comment actually is really offensive. Suggesting that the Jewish people are cool because they "got over" WWII is pretty f***ed in addition to being patently false.

 

A couple of things. I don't buy the analogy. There is no pro-team named after a slur. There are leftest groups whose agenda is to push victim ideology that try and make them slurs, but they really are not.

 

And yes, the "over it" is, well wrong. They are not. They are still going after 95 year olds if they can get them. But I think what he might be noticing is that Jews have, despite being persecuted where ever they are, have done remarkably well. The same can't be said for most Native communities. There are many factors in that. Team names, I don't believe to be one of them. Embracing victim ideology, I believe is.

[Governator]

http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.7909104.7213/fc,220x200,white.jpg

 

http://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2016/04/23/635970423381850913-1621042474_Caucasians.jpg

[Caper]

http://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2016/04/23/635970423381850913-1621042474_Caucasians.jpg

 

That's racist.

[Candy Maldonado]

so Estrada is the game 1 starter...

[KingKat]

That's racist.

 

That's the point.

[Caper]

That's the point.

 

 

I was joking. But the logo itself makes it worst, for sure.

[Caper]

Gonna be a close series but I believe the ultimate deciding factor is John Gibbons vs Francona and it's not even close. In my opinion Indians will beat the Blue Jays 4-3 in 7 with Francona is the ultimate deciding factor in the outcome. Sad but most probably the outcome.

 

And if the Jays had Francona's equal, what would he do specifically that John Gibbons wouldn't?

[KingKat]

But I think what he might be noticing is that Jews have, despite being persecuted where ever they are, have done remarkably well. The same can't be said for most Native communities. There are many factors in that. Team names, I don't believe to be one of them. Embracing victim ideology, I believe is.

 

There's so much more to it than that though and I think you must know this. Just to give a really, really broad history lesson... Back in the Middle Ages, the Pope made it illegal for Christians to make interest loans. This in essence gave Jewish people an instant monopoly on the banking industry. This is how they gained control of the financial sector. It goes back centuries. You can also trace all the stereotypes about Jews being greedy and miserly back to this as well. As for the Natives, it's harder to regain your influence in society when you never had it to being with. As soon as the white people arrived, the natives were f***ed. They lost most of their population to European diseases for which they had no immunity before the white man even had to commit the first act of genocide (which still came anyways though). Unlike the Jewish people the Indians have never even had a role in white society and in our lifetime they were subjected to one of the most aggressive acts of forced assimilation in history (the last residential school was only closed in 1996!!!).

[baubau]

This may have already been posted, too lazy to look but how can anyone hate Bauer:

 

 

Tried to order blue jay for my protein of choice tonight but the restaurant said its not available until Friday. In other news, tbs sucks.

[CrackerJack]

And if the Jays had Francona's equal, what would he do specifically that John Gibbons wouldn't?

 

allow beer and Popeyes during games ...?

[KingKat]

Gibbons is an old school manager but he's an old school manager in the Earl Weaver mold which gets you a lot closer to new school manager than a small ball loving old school manager in the Whitey Herzog mold.

[FrozenRopes]

As an Ojibwe, can ya'll shut up and just talk baseball. No cares about a sports team name. If anything, it keeps some tribes relevant because they get on the tv instead of taking care of the real issues in their communities.

[Krylian]

I know the consensus was Cleveland was the preferred opponent, but they really make me nervous. Am I the only one that feels this way?

[admin]

im not one bit offended. His analogy was beyond stupid. End of story

 

And if you call almost wiping a race of the face of the planet just "a time of bad time" your just as dumb as he.

 

What has the Caucasian race had to endure that is remotely close to that?

 

Thought it was dead on. It offends me that you didn't agree.

[admin]

I know the consensus was Cleveland was the preferred opponent, but they really make me nervous. Am I the only one that feels this way?

With Kluber possibly going three games, I'm sure no one thinks this will be a walk in the park.

[Rusty_Savage]

Thought it was dead on. It offends me that you didn't agree.

 

Im sure you will get over it, muffin

[dineke]

Francona is a master tactician. He out manage Farrell in game 1 and is a big reason why they're moving on. Gibbons is an old school manager in every way and he won't deviate away from what's safe. He's stubborn and lack perspective. Francona is mile beyond Gibbons in his awareness and looking several move ahead, he understood the flow of the game and will do what'll work, not what's safe. You see it time and time again in regular season with Francona and Gibbons.

 

Ned yost won a world series buddy. The manager battle will be way down the list of reasons the jays lost to the indians after the series.

[Terminator]

I know the consensus was Cleveland was the preferred opponent, but they really make me nervous. Am I the only one that feels this way?

 

Oh it barely makes a difference who we played. I'm nervous as hell. Kluber, Miller, and Allen probably throw over 50% of their innings? My hope is that Francona's strategy backfires and they wear out a little bit. But they have a good offense too. Really balanced from both sides of the plate and pretty solid hitting 1-9. They have homefield advantage as well.

[Grant77]

I know the consensus was Cleveland was the preferred opponent, but they really make me nervous. Am I the only one that feels this way?

 

Far more nervous than Boston. The Indians have better pitching and they don't boot the ball on defense. Even if we pitch well, they are still going to be tough games.

[Rusty_Savage]

I know the consensus was Cleveland was the preferred opponent, but they really make me nervous. Am I the only one that feels this way?

 

Pretty much any team will make you nervous in a CS though. I feel that our pitchers will keep us in the game, just need to keep up the timely hitting

[KingKat]

I feel pretty good about the chances of taking Game 1 with Estrada and once that's done, the outlook for the Jays looks pretty good.

[admin]

I feel pretty good about the chances of taking Game 1 with Estrada and once that's done, the outlook for the Jays looks pretty good.

 

If his changeup is on I'll feel good. I don't want to get too confident until I see him in the first inning or two.

[Laika]

The Indians are platoon freaks. I wonder if they will start their RHB platoon outfielders (Rajai and Guyer) or their LHB (Naquin and Chisenhall) against Marco.

 

Will be interesting to see.

[KingKat]

If his changeup is on I'll feel good. I don't want to get too confident until I see him in the first inning or two.

 

I understand that but at the same time our level of confidence has no impact on anything so I figure might as well be calm and optimistic.

[Caper]

Francona is a master tactician. He out manage Farrell in game 1 and is a big reason why they're moving on. Gibbons is an old school manager in every way and he won't deviate away from what's safe. He's stubborn and lack perspective. Francona is mile beyond Gibbons in his awareness and looking several move ahead, he understood the flow of the game and will do what'll work, not what's safe. You see it time and time again in regular season with Francona and Gibbons.

 

Ok. Why didn't Francona master tactish his team into the playoffs in 2011? His team, the one he managed completely collapsed in September. What did Francona do to cause that? Likewise, John Farrell won a world series two years later. What did he do to cause that?

 

So Miller is going to come out in the 5th. We got it. He may be better, the resume certainly is. But the chances that a manager is going to make any kind of significant difference in this series is very minimal.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Caper

[Rusty_Savage]

Master Tactish for the win

[CrackerJack]

anybody who raves about a manager being a "master tactician" is saying that the game of baseball is a tad too complicated for them.