Lack of home-grown premium hitters...

[JoeCarter]

Got into this debate the other day: do the Jays do a crummy job of developing young hitters? A friend and I tried to name the good hitters who were drafted by Jays since ~2000 or so, or who we may have traded for but who got most of their development in our farm system. We ran out of names pretty quick.

1. Vernon wells

- big gap -

2/3 Alex Rios & Adam Lind

Then it was a pupu platter of Arencibia-types.

 

What gives? That seems like a pretty weak crop over 15 years. Esp given our bad teams and relatively high drafting positions (crap-shoot and all). Hard to remember the last time we got excited about a young slugger who was just biding his time in the minors / clobbering AAA. Is there something deficient about our drafting and/or development process?

[jaysblue]

Should add Aaron Hill, he had some solid seasons.

 

What about the pitchers drafted & developed by this organization? Marcus Stroman, Aaron Sanchez, Roberto Osuna, Drew Hutchison, Ricky Romero, Brett Cecil, etc.? Can even throw Noah Syndergaard into that group if you wish.

[Maahfaace]

Got into this debate the other day: do the Jays do a crummy job of developing young hitters? A friend and I tried to name the good hitters who were drafted by Jays since ~2000 or so, or who we may have traded for but who got most of their development in our farm system. We ran out of names pretty quick.

1. Vernon wells

- big gap -

2/3 Alex Rios & Adam Lind

Then it was a pupu platter of Arencibia-types.

 

What gives? That seems like a pretty weak crop over 15 years. Esp given our bad teams and relatively high drafting positions (crap-shoot and all). Hard to remember the last time we got excited about a young slugger who was just biding his time in the minors / clobbering AAA. Is there something deficient about our drafting and/or development process?

 

JP's years were marred by college quick to majors picks which limited upside, and AA was heavy on pitching in his drafts while at the helm, one would suspect that had major impacts on the overall quality of high end talent from a batting perspective.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Maahfaace

[Lil Looper]

Got into this debate the other day: do the Jays do a crummy job of developing young hitters? A friend and I tried to name the good hitters who were drafted by Jays since ~2000 or so, or who we may have traded for but who got most of their development in our farm system. We ran out of names pretty quick.

1. Vernon wells

- big gap -

2/3 Alex Rios & Adam Lind

Then it was a pupu platter of Arencibia-types.

 

What gives? That seems like a pretty weak crop over 15 years. Esp given our bad teams and relatively high drafting positions (crap-shoot and all). Hard to remember the last time we got excited about a young slugger who was just biding his time in the minors / clobbering AAA. Is there something deficient about our drafting and/or development process?

 

I give the org a lot of flack but all you can really do is listen to what scouts say and run with it.

The more high pick, high ceiling guys you get, the better chance of getting a future MLB hitter.

 

Your point is exactly why I dont get excited about prospects unless they go ape s*** in like at least double A.

Travis snider was someone who at the time fit that billing in terms of tearing up the minors but obviously fanned out as an MLBer

 

In regards to hitters specifically I looked up only the first round in the past 15 years and found some interesting things of note

Since 2009, 10 of our 12 first rounders have been pitchers.

 

Obviously first round doesnt mean auto-mlb talent but it shows we havent been targeting position players as early. The true high ceiling, likely cant miss guys havent been position players so its not a total surprise our 5th, 6th round talent never can make that final leap.

 

In the end players just gotta produce I dont think our org doesnt know how to develop talent, its just that most talent fails.

 

Also aaron hill was in the 2003 draft and while his time ended poorly, he had some good years here.

[JoeCarter]

K, so let's add Aaron Hill to the list: Wells, Rios, Lind, Hill. 4 guys in 15 years ending up as proficient, everyday major league hitters (with only 1 producing high-end #'s over several seasons) still feels like a paltry turnout. No doubt we've prioritized pitching with higher round picks, and there are certainly more names on that side of the ledger. But still seems that -- esp with the MLB draft being as much of a crapshoot as it is -- we'd have graduated some more hitting talent to the big league club. Heck, as pointed out above, Snider's one of the only guys we even got up to the mashing-at-AAA-but-never-panned-out-in-majors level. Shrug.

[wamco]

High picks were typically used on pitching. End thread

[Daniel Labude]

It comes down to drafting strategy and international signings. In the past it has been geared to pitching but the future looks bright, especially with some of the hitters in the organization now.

 

Vlad Jr.

Alford

Urena

Tellez

Biggio

Woodman

Bichette

Etc.

 

Right now our hitting talent is mainly at lower levels so it will take a couple years to see it produce...hopefully

[Dr Negative]

Not really an issue if you pick up Josh Donaldson for tiddlywinks.

[LGBJ29]

We could easily talk about the org's ability to turn average MLB hitters into All Stars/ Superstars

 

Jose

Edwin

Donny (From all star to MVP(s))

Can we include Saunders?

Devon Travis probably

[Dr. Dinger]

WTF are you talking about? Encarnacion and Bautista are two of the most elite hitters of the decade, and they were nobodies before they were Blue Jays. That is homegrown.

[Krylian]

Not really an issue if you pick up Josh Donaldson for tiddlywinks.

 

How often do you think you'll be able to pull that off.

[Krylian]

WTF are you talking about? Encarnacion and Bautista are two of the most elite hitters of the decade, and they were nobodies before they were Blue Jays. That is homegrown.

 

Drafted and developed is what is commonly understood as homegrown... Not traded for and then flourished with a fresh new start.

[Melvin]

This thread is ridiculous as the Jays have one of the most talented offenses in the league over the last couple of years. Why the hell does is matter if the studs on our roster were drafted by the Jays or not? None of them were free agents signings, so as long as the organization makes savvy moves to keep the offense potent and the team contending, who gives a f*** where the talent originated?

[Dr. Dinger]

Drafted and developed is what is commonly understood as homegrown... Not traded for and then flourished with a fresh new start.

 

That's a narrow and useless definition. So Devon Travis doesn't count as a homegrown talent, even though he's only ever played MLB games for the Blue Jays? This is a semantic argument. We have an elite offense. Whether we drafted those players or acquired them via pitchers we drafted is completely immaterial.

[Daniel Labude]

This thread is ridiculous as the Jays have one of the most talented offenses in the league over the last couple of years. Why the hell does is matter if the studs on our roster were drafted by the Jays or not? None of them were free agents signings, so as long as the organization makes savvy moves to keep the offense potent and the team contending, who gives a f*** where the talent originated?

 

So basically don't look at next season because right now we are gonna be missing a bunch from this year's team

[Melvin]

So basically don't look at next season because right now we are gonna be missing a bunch from this year's team

 

Hey guys we're in a playoff race with a great chance at a WS shot, lets forget about enjoying this year and think about how doomed we are without Bautista's 1 WAR and Saunders' atrocious D and 200 K's next season!

[L54]

That's a narrow and useless definition. So Devon Travis doesn't count as a homegrown talent, even though he's only ever played MLB games for the Blue Jays? This is a useless semantic argument.

 

Not really. There's 100% a difference between drafting and developing major league quality hitters and trading for players and then them finding success on another team.

[Governator]

That's a narrow and useless definition. So Devon Travis doesn't count as a homegrown talent, even though he's only ever played MLB games for the Blue Jays? This is a semantic argument. We have an elite offense. Whether we drafted those players or acquired them via pitchers we drafted is completely immaterial.

 

 

No lol, Devon Travis was certainly not homegrown here... how could he? Homegrown means our organization developed him, we turned him in to the player he is over years of minor league work. Anthony Gose, who we didn't draft would still be considered homegrown by most because he spent the majority of his minor league development in our organization. We traded our homegrown talent to acquire Devon Travis who inturn had an immediate impact on our team.

[Dr. Dinger]

Not really. There's 100% a difference between drafting and developing major league quality hitters and trading for players and then them finding success on another team.

 

And what difference is that? We still have Travis for 6 years of control. Elite hitters get taken at the top of drafts, we haven't exactly had many high draft picks in recent years. Furthermore, why are we even talking about the supposed draft shortcomings of the AA and Ricciardi administrations? We are under a completely different regime now.

[King]

How the f*** has Kevin Pillar not been mentioned yet? Hello?

[Daniel Labude]

Hey guys we're in a playoff race with a great chance at a WS shot, lets forget about enjoying this year and think about how doomed we are without Bautista's 1 WAR and Saunders' atrocious D and 200 K's next season!

 

When did I say forget about next season.

[King]

Ah, we are talking about premium "hitters" not "position players"

 

Carry on.

[Captain Adama]

Does Yan Gomes count?

[Dr. Dinger]

You don't really 'develop' an elite hitter like Bryce Harper, Kris Bryant, or Manny Machado. Those guys are generational talents who would have succeeded in any organization. To get a guy like that, you just need to be a terrible for several years and also a bit lucky. Or you can hit the 1 in a million jackpot and get Mike Trout late in the 1st round.

[Melvin]

When did I say forget about next season.

 

What are you on about?

[RealAccountant]

Vernon wells was an average to slightly above average hitter who had a few good years

 

Last high end hitter this team developed was Delgado

[L54]

And what difference is that? We still have Travis for 6 years of control. Elite hitters get taken at the top of drafts, we haven't exactly had many high draft picks in recent years. Furthermore, why are we even talking about the supposed draft shortcomings of the AA and Ricciardi administrations? We are under a completely different regime now.

 

The difference is that Devon Travis isn't home grown. Neither is Noah Syndergaard, Addison Russell or Jose Abreu.

 

I really couldn't give a s*** less about whether or not the offense is built around a bunch of home grown players.

[Governator]

Vernon wells was an average to slightly above average hitter who had a few good years

 

Last high end hitter this team developed was Delgado

 

 

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but that's the best answer in this thread.

 

 

[Krylian]

That's a narrow and useless definition. So Devon Travis doesn't count as a homegrown talent, even though he's only ever played MLB games for the Blue Jays? This is a semantic argument. We have an elite offense. Whether we drafted those players or acquired them via pitchers we drafted is completely immaterial.

 

A. Having a great offence has nothing to do with what the thread is about.

 

B. Travis is not home grown. GROWN being the operative word. We're not the ones that moulded his development. We simply reaped the benefits. It's great that we did... But the question being asked is how come we have so few bats that we've seen through from start to finish, that have panned out.

[Krylian]

This thread is ridiculous as the Jays have one of the most talented offenses in the league over the last couple of years. Why the hell does is matter if the studs on our roster were drafted by the Jays or not? None of them were free agents signings, so as long as the organization makes savvy moves to keep the offense potent and the team contending, who gives a f*** where the talent originated?

 

Then create a 'This is a great Offence' Thread and leave this one to people that enjoy discussing drafting, player development, and everything that comes with it.

 

It's very simple.