Does the StroShow blow?

[BigCecil]

We know he can and should be better. He is pitching to contact with a low K rate and ground balls all day chewing up IP like RA.

 

He is a very different pitcher from 2014, and now pounds the ball down and around the zone almost exclusively. BB/9 is up.

 

Still as cocky as ever, but the performance isn't really backing it up by any informed statistical measure.

 

Is he a #1 or #2 with the current approach? Does he need to change it and if so, does he have the stuff to do it?

[BTS]

He has not been good. It's hard to see how this continues though. He's too good to pitch like this for much longer.

[Sorrow]

It's super frustrating to watch guys with his stuff do this. He doesn't pitch up in the zone at all and seems to miss down and out so often that batters seem to just ignore stuff that is borderline at best.

[jaysblue]

Drew Hutchison > Marcus Stroman

[Jonn]

I think the expectations were too high for him that's the problem. We all expect him to be better obviously.

[THANOS]

Let's just hope that this start was the nail in the coffin on his "new approach" as a pitcher.

[Cyborg]

He shouldnt be throwing his sinker with two strikes. Far too easy to make contact with.

[THANOS]

He shouldnt be throwing his sinker with two strikes. Far too easy to make contact with.

 

I 100% agree with you. Rear back and toss a high 4SM. He can probably still get it up to 95 is he wants to. 3-4 max effort 4SM fastballs per start could net 4-5 K's alone, if used right. The guy should work the top of zone (and those corners), at least, 30% of the time to keep that in their minds.

 

At one point I thought it may have been Martin's game-calling but after that Stroman quote and watching tonight, it's clearly his philosophy that's the problem.

[Daniel Labude]

We know he can and should be better. He is pitching to contact with a low K rate and ground balls all day chewing up IP like RA.

 

He is a very different pitcher from 2014, and now pounds the ball down and around the zone almost exclusively. BB/9 is up.

 

Still as cocky as ever, but the performance isn't really backing it up by any informed statistical measure.

 

Is he a #1 or #2 with the current approach? Does he need to change it and if so, does he have the stuff to do it?

 

He is a #2 in the current state. I think he became scared to throw the 4 seam fastball after his first stint in the big leagues

[THANOS]

He is a #2 in the current state. I think he became scared to throw the 4 seam fastball after his first stint in the big leagues

 

When Jake Odorizzi is striking guys out with a 89-90 mph 4SM up in the zone, Stroman shouldn't be worried to throw his 94-96 mph 4SM up in the zone.

[BTS]

He is a #2 in the current state. I think he became scared to throw the 4 seam fastball after his first stint in the big leagues

 

Objectively false.

[burlingtonbandit]

Another thing I've noticed his he's thrown his changeup a lot more and I'm not a fan. His curveball/slider has been great in the past and he seems to be favouring the change over them which I don't think I agree with. It seems to just float towards the batter and if its in the strikezone its a meatball.

 

Less sinkers and changeups for more 4 seam/curveballs would benefit him IMO even if it resulted in a few more HRs given up.

[burlingtonbandit]

When Jake Odorizzi is striking guys out with a 89-90 mph 4SM up in the zone, Stroman shouldn't be worried to throw his 94-96 mph 4SM up in the zone.

 

Stroman at 94 probably has a relative velo of like 92 though because of his size and extension.

[THANOS]

Another thing I've noticed his he's thrown his changeup a lot more and I'm not a fan. His curveball/slider has been great in the past and he seems to be favouring the change over them which I don't think I agree with. It seems to just float towards the batter and if its in the strikezone its a meatball.

 

Less sinkers and changeups for more 4 seam/curveballs would benefit him IMO even if it resulted in a few more HRs given up.

 

Yep. The attempt to work low corners has actually increased Stroman's walk rate and his HR/9 has actually "increased" from 0.48 in 2014 to 0.81 the past 2 seasons.

 

Whatever he's doing, it's obvious that it's not helping him at all.

[THANOS]

Stroman at 94 probably has a relative velo of like 92 though because of his size and extension.

 

Is there any actual statistical evidence behind this? I hear it all the time regarding taller pitchers but I've never read anything to confirm it.

[burlingtonbandit]

Is there any actual statistical evidence behind this? I hear it all the time regarding taller pitchers but I've never read anything to confirm it.

 

I believe StatCast has it and we see stats every now and then about which pitchers have the best relative Velo but I haven't seen a full list of every pitcher so I'm not sure exactly what Stroman's is. I would imagine its fairly low though because of his size. Although maybe his spin rate is really high to make up for it?

[THANOS]

I believe StatCast has it and we see stats every now and then about which pitchers have the best relative Velo but I haven't seen a full list of every pitcher so I'm not sure exactly what Stroman's is. I would imagine its fairly low though because of his size. Although maybe his spin rate is really high to make up for it?

 

The only thing I could find regarding Stroman and his perceived velocity is from his scouting report from 2013. This blurb is interesting:

 

Forward and full rotation into deceleration

 

Stroman’s semi-late rotation allows for greater “extension” toward home plate and increased perceived velocity. It also creates a better line to the plate, which improves command and is a strong signal for arm durability. Note the first two frames, which debunk the idea that we should finish “square to the plate” as so many pitching coaches preach:

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/images/animgifs/stromanrecovery.gif

 

source: http://www.hardballtimes.com/marcus-stroman-the-mythbusting-machine/

[Maahfaace]

The only thing I could find regarding Stroman and his perceived velocity is from his scouting report from 2013. This blurb is interesting:

 

Because of his size he gets less extension, which in turn requires the ball to travel a greater distance to home plate. Simple physics would deduce that because the ball has to travel a greater distance it has more time to slow down resulting in a lower speed as it crosses the plate. I'm pretty sure the data is available with regards to exit velocity and result velocity if someone wants to actually research it

[burlingtonbandit]

Interesting, He does look like he gets pretty good extension from the mound. Curious to see what the numbers would be.

[bones10]

Someone needs to take that stupid f***ing Sinker he is throwing 89% of the time out back ala' Old Yeller.

 

 

Look at the movement on some of these breaking ball and his 4 seam command, its excellent; I don't recall any moment where he has looked this good since 2014.

[THANOS]

Someone needs to take that stupid f***ing Sinker he is throwing 89% of the time out back ala' Old Yeller.

 

 

Look at the movement on some of these breaking ball and his 4 seam command, its excellent; I don't recall any moment where he has looked this good since 2014.

 

Max effort 4SM touching 95/96 and two-strike sliders for the punch-out. It's like a completely different pitcher.

[burlingtonbandit]

Someone needs to take that stupid f***ing Sinker he is throwing 89% of the time out back ala' Old Yeller.

 

 

Look at the movement on some of these breaking ball and his 4 seam command, its excellent; I don't recall any moment where he has looked this good since 2014.

 

The sinker still is probably his best pitch and no one wants him to get rid of it. Just throw it less and mix in his 4 seamer a little more with some more curveballs and sliders.

 

I think people's expectations including myself were maybe too high for him. Ever since the injury his breaking ball just hasn't been consistent.

[burlingtonbandit]

Max effort 4SM touching 95/96 and two-strike sliders for the punch-out. It's like a completely different pitcher.

 

He hasn't thrown any fastball harder than 94.4 this year so I doubt you will be seeing 95 and 96 very often.

[fatcowxlive]

Y'all need to stop worrying he'll be fine he's just off to a slow start. Him being the ace in his first full year probably got him shaken up a bit but I expect him to do much better than what he's shown. He'll go back to being the hutch of the first start and last year soon enough

[THANOS]

He hasn't thrown any fastball harder than 94.4 this year so I doubt you will be seeing 95 and 96 very often.

 

He has been quoted as saying that he doesn't throw max effort anymore, so that could be why.

[Stangstag]

Make Stroman great again

[burlingtonbandit]

He has been quoted as saying that he doesn't throw max effort anymore, so that could be why.

 

Where did he say this? Watching him it sure looks like he isn't leaving anything in the tank.

[burlingtonbandit]

Stroman actually did a pretty good job getting whiffs tonight. 10 swinging strikes on 95 pitches.

[RealAccountant]

It wouldn't be nearly as bad if Cecil did his job.

[Angrioter]

John Lott ✔ ‎@LottOnBaseball

… based on what I’m hearing from pitching coach Pete Walker, the 64 2-seamers (sinkers) he threw tonight were too many