JA Happ Signing: Good/Bad?

[Brownie19]

Chill

 

Chill? It's a serious question.

 

The guy has gone from 9.81 K/9, 1.85 BB/9, 2.19 FIP, 2.90 xFIP pitcher in Pittsburgh to a 5.85 K/9, 2.78 BB/9, 4.28 FIP, 4.48 xFIP pitcher in Toronto. The biggest change appears to be a 15% jump in his use of the F'ing 2-seamer....the same pitch that's killed Stroman's effectiveness. I guess Happ is averaging 0.7 more innings per start this year - but is that worth the massive drop in effectiveness? I don't think so. This organizational approach is pure BS.

[Maahfaace]

Chill? It's a serious question.

 

The guy has gone from 9.81 K/9, 1.85 BB/9, 2.19 FIP, 2.90 xFIP pitcher in Pittsburgh to a 5.85 K/9, 2.78 BB/9, 4.28 FIP, 4.48 xFIP pitcher in Toronto. The biggest change appears to be a 15% jump in his use of the F'ing 2-seamer....the same pitch that's killed Stroman's effectiveness. I guess Happ is averaging 0.7 more innings per start this year - but is that worth the massive drop in effectiveness? I don't think so. This organizational approach is pure BS.

 

Chill, shatkins will clear house with regards to the coaching staff in the offseason if the jays don't sniff the postseason and implement a line of thinking that better aligns with what he believes.

[Frenchsoup]

He has a 3.20 ERA. His fastball is plus, his command looks pretty good, his curve has been very solid. Not much to complain about imo

[baloojayz]

I think Happ would get rocked if the tried to pitch like he did in Pits. Stro on the other hand, I really hope he goes back to throwing more 4seam, sinker, curve, he is a strikeout pitcher.

[Governator]

SwStr% with Pittsburgh last year was 9.9....it's only 8.8 with the Jays. His fastball was significantly more valuable with Pittsburgh than it is so far this year (or with the M's last year)...and of course he's gone from throwing 5% 2-seamers with Pittsburgh last year to throwing 2-seamers 20% of the time with the Jays because da-gotter-pidch-tw-contact ******** (*assumption).

 

Seriously....guy pitches UNREAL in Pittsburgh last year. Based on that success, wouldn't you do everything you could to replicate the pitch choice & sequencing? I mean maybe it doesn't translate or work...but I'd start there first. Where is the common sense? Happ's been fine, but it's evident he's nowhere nearly as effective as he was in Pittsburgh last year. I sure hope to god that isn't because the Jays tried to change his approach.

 

 

1 out of 9 batters is a pitcher in the National League... does that not reflect that? You sub a pitcher with David Ortiz all season and you will have different results.

[Brownie19]

1 out of 9 batters is a pitcher in the National League... does that not reflect that? You sub a pitcher with David Ortiz all season and you will have different results.

 

I was just rebuting Cyborg's suggestion that Happ may be getting unlucky with the K's this year because his SwStr% was actually "up"......and he may be, but it's not as high as it was in Pittsburgh. And I think it goes without saying that it's a little skewed to suggest instead of a pitcher - you're facing David Ortiz one every 9 times through the order. Your point is there, but let's compare the average DH with the average pitcher because I could probably argue MadBum hits better than some DH's do....or I could note the likes of Prince Fielder, Morales and Corey Dickerson have all be hot garbage this year.

[Brownie19]

He has a 3.20 ERA. His fastball is plus, his command looks pretty good, his curve has been very solid. Not much to complain about imo

 

Serious? We're judging based on ERA and the eye test? Did I fall into my hot tub time machine again?

 

All I'm saying is there are a lot of indicators that suggest his success will not be sustainable over the course of a full season unless some significant adjustments are made. There's also stats to suggest we aren't even giving him an opportunity to replicate how dominant he was last year in Pittsburgh...which is flat out stupid.

[Brownie19]

I think Happ would get rocked if the tried to pitch like he did in Pits.

 

Wouldn't you at least see if that approach was successful before implementing change?

[baloojayz]

Wouldn't you at least see if that approach was successful before implementing change?

 

It's not like they knew nothing about him, especially Pete walker, prior to his return to the BlueJays. Right now he is exceeding expectations, why take the risk?

[Governator]

I'd rather focus on why Cecil is sucking which will actually fix one of our problems than JA Happ.

[Mikeleelop]

I'd rather focus on why Cecil is sucking which will actually fix one of our problems than JA Happ.

 

lat strain causes Cecil to land on DL. I think you have the answer to why

[Nafro]

1 out of 9 batters is a pitcher in the National League... does that not reflect that? You sub a pitcher with David Ortiz all season and you will have different results.

 

 

This combined with park effects and the fact in Pittsburgh they made sure he never pitched more than 6 innings. There was an article somewhere about what the Pirates did to help increase his chances to succeed. Apparently our coaching staff did not read it.

 

Either way, he has pitched well and certainly has been a good sign.

[Cyborg]

This combined with park effects and the fact in Pittsburgh they made sure he never pitched more than 6 innings. There was an article somewhere about what the Pirates did to help increase his chances to succeed. Apparently our coaching staff did not read it.

 

Either way, he has pitched well and certainly has been a good sign.

The most batters he ever faced was 27 (only once and next highest was 24). Never saw the order a fourth time with PIT.

 

So he saw 25+ batters in 1/9 starts with PIT and 8/10 starts with the Jays, hmmm.

[Brownie19]

Chill? It's a serious question.

 

The guy has gone from 9.81 K/9, 1.85 BB/9, 2.19 FIP, 2.90 xFIP pitcher in Pittsburgh to a 5.85 K/9, 2.78 BB/9, 4.28 FIP, 4.48 xFIP pitcher in Toronto. The biggest change appears to be a 15% jump in his use of the F'ing 2-seamer....the same pitch that's killed Stroman's effectiveness. I guess Happ is averaging 0.7 more innings per start this year - but is that worth the massive drop in effectiveness? I don't think so. This organizational approach is pure BS.

 

Seems like a good time to pump my own tires. I'm very disappointed in Happ. Him and Stro need to revise their approach.

[Jonn]

I think it will be moveable contract. It was slightly above market value at the time. Long term I don't see him as a fit. Didn't like the third year.

[Abomination]

The most batters he ever faced was 27 (only once and next highest was 24). Never saw the order a fourth time with PIT.

 

So he saw 25+ batters in 1/9 starts with PIT and 8/10 starts with the Jays, hmmm.

 

He's only faced the 4th time through the order this year twice (7 plate appearances). 25 batters instead of 27 for the full 3 times through the order is not the crux of his issues. Given the difference in the leagues (starters being pinch hit for in the NL), this looks to me like he's being used essentially the same.

[THANOS]

Pete Walker ain't having any of that strike out ********.

 

Pitch to contact or die.

 

Yep the problem likely starts with Walker.

[Jonn]

Yep the problem likely starts with Walker.

 

The Blue Jays seem to be one of the only teams to try to get there starters deeper in games. Other teams are trying to avoid 3rd and 4th trips through the lineup trying to maximize a pitchers best advantages. You would think its a trend.

[THANOS]

The Blue Jays seem to be one of the only teams to try to get there starters deeper in games. Other teams are trying to avoid 3rd and 4th trips through the lineup trying to maximize a pitchers best advantages. You would think its a trend.

 

To be honest, I can kind of understand it lately, given our s*** bullpen, but it shouldn't have been the approach at the beginning on the season when we thought we had a great BP.

[dineke]

Yep the problem likely starts with Walker.

 

So you're going to blame him for Stroman and Happ but not give him credit for Estrada and Sanchez?

 

Maybe the players should be blamed instead. it's apparently dumb to blame hitting coaches when hitters are struggling but it's ok to blame pitching coaches?

[THANOS]

So you're going to blame him for Stroman and Happ but not give him credit for Estrada and Sanchez?

 

Maybe the players should be blamed instead. it's apparently dumb to blame hitting coaches when hitters are struggling but it's ok to blame pitching coaches?

 

Why give him credit for Estrada and Sanchez? Estrada isn't magically using a sinker most of the time, like the others, and has credited Navarro for his new pitching approach last season and Martin this season, not Walker. Sanchez also came into camp throwing CH and 4SM and is stuff is so erratic that it's difficult to predict the location of 2SM.

 

Pete Walker has been quoted numerous times for his love for "pitching to contact" and 2SM, so it's a logical conclusion to draw.

 

And for the record, I don't think it's dumb to blame hitting coaches. If they added no value to the hitting, there wouldn't be jobs for them.

[bones10]

Happ is kind of s***, but we shouldn't be relying on him to be an ace, or even a number 2 guy. oue offence needs to be better and unfortunately it doesnt look like its going to get much better. Edited June 7, 2016 by bones10

[sawyerford]

Kind of s***? Happ has been amazing this year, 2nd bad start.

[Brownie19]

Kind of s***? Happ has been lucky this year, 2nd bad start.

 

fify

[Jonn]

Kind of s***? Happ has been amazing this year, 2nd bad start.

 

Happ is a glorified turd cutter.

[Brownie19]

So you're going to blame him for Stroman and Happ but not give him credit for Estrada and Sanchez?

 

Maybe the players should be blamed instead. it's apparently dumb to blame hitting coaches when hitters are struggling but it's ok to blame pitching coaches?

 

It is a bit ironic that Sanchez is striking out a lot more than most expected while Happ's K's have dropped off the table

[burlingtonbandit]

It is a bit ironic that Sanchez is striking out a lot more than most expected while Happ's K's have dropped off the table

 

He's gotten the same whiffs as he always has so there might be a little noise in there too.

[glory]

Happ is fine. He's a movable piece on a reasonable contract. The drop in K's is worth mentioning though because even when he was mediocre pre-Pitts he was still striking out 7 per 9.

 

I really wish Atkins cleaned house on the coaching staff because I don't think Gibbons/Walker mesh with what the FO wants.

[THANOS]

Happ is fine. He's a movable piece on a reasonable contract. The drop in K's is worth mentioning though because even when he was mediocre pre-Pitts he was still striking out 7 per 9.

 

I really wish Atkins cleaned house on the coaching staff because I don't think Gibbons/Walker mesh with what the FO wants.

 

Agreed. If only they could pry Mickey Callaway from Cleveland to be the new Pitching Coach. He turned Carrasco from a 5.79 K/9 spot starter in 2013 into a 9.4/10.5 K/9 ace in the following 2 seasons. That guy is a true gem.

[GD]

Agreed. If only they could pry Mickey Callaway from Cleveland to be the new Pitching Coach. He turned Carrasco from a 5.79 K/9 spot starter in 2013 into a 9.4/10.5 K/9 ace in the following 2 seasons. That guy is a true gem.

 

lol wat