Terrible David Price Ideas and Rumours Thread

[Dr. Dinger]

I've decided I no longer care about the distant future; I want the Jays to re-sign him.

[BTS]

Why would they like Travis more than Pillar as a core piece? That seems dumb to me and possibly racist

 

Two years younger and game not completely reliant on his legs. I like Pillar, but it's hard to see him maintain his effectiveness as he gets to 30+ years old. Not a lot of guys with his skill set are able to make it work long term.

[TBJ12]

Relying on pen arms and below-average hitting outfielders multiple years into the future is pretty dubious. Health permitting, I think Travis is probably a building block going forward. Osuna and Pillar probably don't move the needle when management sets out a long-term plan.

 

Osuna isn't even 21 and your ready to label him a career reliever? Pillar's bat is fine in CF as long as the defense remains above average.

[saskjayfan]

Relying on pen arms and below-average hitting outfielders multiple years into the future is pretty dubious. Health permitting, I think Travis is probably a building block going forward. Osuna and Pillar probably don't move the needle when management sets out a long-term plan.

 

How can you of all people come out and say you can't rely on a below average hitting outfielder? Pillar was a 4.3 WAR player. A 4 WIN player doesn't move the needle? Osuna is 20 years old. He has three above average pitches. He could very well be moved to the rotation.

 

Look at Pillar. He has a 13.5% stikeout rate and he swung at everything. It is remarkable how low his strikeout rate was given how swing happy he was. If he develops some plate discipline and he did get better as the season went along his offense has upside. The kid has some pop.

[Dr. Dinger]

How can you of all people come out and say you can't rely on a below average hitting outfielder? Pillar was a 4.3 WAR player. A 4 WIN player doesn't move the needle? Osuna is 20 years old. He has three above average pitches. He could very well be moved to the rotation.

 

Look at Pillar. He has a 13.5% stikeout rate and he swung at everything. It is remarkable how low his strikeout rate was given how swing happy he was. If he develops some plate discipline and he did get better as the season went along his offense has upside. The kid has some pop.

 

Colby Rasmus had a 5.1 WAR season for us as a 26 year old. Then he had a 1 WAR season.

[Laika]

Two years younger and game not completely reliant on his legs. I like Pillar, but it's hard to see him maintain his effectiveness as he gets to 30+ years old. Not a lot of guys with his skill set are able to make it work long term.

 

We see this "too reliant on his legs" argument all the time about a lot of different players and I must say, it is pretty weak.

[Laika]

Colby Rasmus had a 5.1 WAR season for us as a 26 year old. Then he had a 1 WAR season.

 

Colby Rasmus has no stable skills. He's just a mediocre defender with big power but tons of swing and miss. Rides the BABIP and HR/FB rollercoasters.

 

Pillar's defense should be a nice buffer against s***** seasons.

[BTS]

How can you of all people come out and say you can't rely on a below average hitting outfielder? Pillar was a 4.3 WAR player. A 4 WIN player doesn't move the needle? Osuna is 20 years old. He has three above average pitches. He could very well be moved to the rotation.

 

Look at Pillar. He has a 13.5% stikeout rate and he swung at everything. It is remarkable how low his strikeout rate was given how swing happy he was. If he develops some plate discipline and he did get better as the season went along his offense has upside. The kid has some pop.

 

I don't know what this means. I'm like the only person who doesn't really want to give Heyward $200+M. I feel like I'm pretty consistent in not wanting to rely on that skill set long-term.

 

Re: Osuna, if he's moved to the rotation I'll consider him a building block, but I'm not convinced management thinks he can stay healthy as a starter.

[Dr. Dinger]

We see this "too reliant on his legs" argument all the time about a lot of different players and I must say, it is pretty weak.

 

I prefer the "defense fluctuates a lot" argument; he could end up being replacement level next year very easily.

[Dr. Dinger]

Colby Rasmus has no stable skills. He's just a mediocre defender with big power but tons of swing and miss. Rides the BABIP and HR/FB rollercoasters.

 

Pillar's defense should be a nice buffer against s***** seasons.

 

Rasmus was +15 UZR/150 in 2013 and -15 in 2014, then +15 again this year. I'm not yet convinced that Pillar will be a consistently elite defender.

[Laika]

I prefer the "defense fluctuates a lot" argument; he could end up being replacement level next year very easily.

 

Sure, bad defensive seasons happen but probably only just as often as bad offensive ones.

 

Measurement of defense is unstable but that doesn't mean defensive skill is that unstable. Did you watch the games last year? How likely do you think it is that Kevin Pillar's defensive skill is going to fluctuate a lot?

[saskjayfan]

Colby Rasmus had a 5.1 WAR season for us as a 26 year old. Then he had a 1 WAR season.

 

see 30% plus strike out rate and do you think he is as good defensively or as a a baserunner as Pillar. Colby aslo bounced back with a 2.8 WIN season.

[BTS]

We see this "too reliant on his legs" argument all the time about a lot of different players and I must say, it is pretty weak.

 

How many outfielders have maintained long-term success with below league average offense? Recently, I can think of Ellsbury and Bourn, who's legs went at 30. Pillar is a nice player, but he's 27 and it's hard to see him as a viable starter as he gets to 30+.

[Dr. Dinger]

Sure, bad defensive seasons happen but probably only just as often as bad offensive ones.

 

Measurement of defense is unstable but that doesn't mean defensive skill is that unstable. Did you watch the games last year? How likely do you think it is that Kevin Pillar's defensive skill is going to fluctuate a lot?

 

No. I don't like baseball.

[Frenchsoup]

How many outfielders have maintained long-term success with below league average offense? Recently, I can think of Ellsbury and Bourn, who's legs went at 30. Pillar is a nice player, but he's 27 and it's hard to see him as a viable starter as he gets to 30+.

 

I thought we were talking 2 years from now? Now it's 3-4 years from now.

[Dr. Dinger]

Sure, bad defensive seasons happen but probably only just as often as bad offensive ones.

 

Measurement of defense is unstable but that doesn't mean defensive skill is that unstable. Did you watch the games last year? How likely do you think it is that Kevin Pillar's defensive skill is going to fluctuate a lot?

 

Basically, I think Pillar overachieved on rangy plays last year, and I think his arm is average-to-below average. I'd be happy with a 2 WAR season from him next year.

[BTS]

I thought we were talking 2 years from now? Now it's 3-4 years from now.

 

We're talking about Pillar as an asset entering his age-29 season. I'm not convinced 29-year old Pillar is going to be a +10 CF defender or baserunner.

[saskjayfan]

I thought we were talking 2 years from now? Now it's 3-4 years from now.

 

not to mention, alford, pompey, Urena, Vlad JR and a whole host of pitchers in the minors. 3 or 4 years from now at least a couple of those players might work out. Pompey or Alford could push Pillar to left or out all together.

[Frenchsoup]

We're talking about Pillar as an asset entering his age-29 season. I'm not convinced 29-year old Pillar is going to be a +10 CF defender or baserunner.

 

He's probably a 3-3.5 WAR player. He's a core piece.

[BTS]

He's probably a 3-3.5 WAR player. He's a core piece.

 

He's not even probably a 3-3.5 WAR player in 2016, let alone 2018.

[Frenchsoup]

He's not even probably a 3-3.5 WAR player in 2016, let alone 2018.

 

We will see buddy.

[saskjayfan]

We're talking about Pillar as an asset entering his age-29 season. I'm not convinced 29-year old Pillar is going to be a +10 CF defender or baserunner.

 

29 is not old and if you take care of your body you physical abilities at age 29 are not that different from age 26. You are also missing the offensive upside to pillar. Pillar has had no injuries to speak of. Ellsbury had injury issues.

[Laika]

How many outfielders have maintained long-term success with below league average offense? Recently, I can think of Ellsbury and Bourn, who's legs went at 30. Pillar is a nice player, but he's 27 and it's hard to see him as a viable starter as he gets to 30+.

 

- If we define long-term as six years, then lots. But players generally don't build productive 15 year careers unless they have a somewhat well rounded game, regardless of what their carrying tool is.

- They don't have to worry about his 30s.

- He projects for a 97 wRC+. To bin him as "below average" is true in fact but not really that honest of a point. It's not like he's a nothing hitter. He has a hit tool and room for development.

[Laika]

Basically, I think Pillar overachieved on rangy plays last year, and I think his arm is average-to-below average. I'd be happy with a 2 WAR season from him next year.

 

I don't think his arm strength is that great but I do like his throwing technique/quickness/decisions. That's not worth a lot of runs through.

[BTS]

- If we define long-term as six years, then lots. But players generally don't build productive 15 year careers unless they have a somewhat well rounded game, regardless of what their carrying tool is.

- They don't have to worry about his 30s.

- He projects for a 97 wRC+. To bin him as "below average" is true in fact but not really that honest of a point. It's not like he's a nothing hitter. He has a hit tool and room for development.

 

93 last year, 88 in his career, projected by one system at 97. I think "below-average" was pretty fair.

[Laika]

93 last year, 88 in his career, projected by one system at 97. I think "below-average" was pretty fair.

 

Why even bin him at all though? It's just a generalization to fit your argument.

 

Our scale for offense is a lot more sophisticated than "he good, he bad"

[Laika]

Why even bin him at all though? It's just a generalization to fit your argument.

 

Our scale for offense is a lot more sophisticated than "he good, he bad"

 

If you think he's say 7% below league average, then how good does he have to remain on defense to stay an above average player? How likely do you think he is to remain that good?

 

Crunch the numbers. Do the math. Make a point.

[Dr. Dinger]

If you think he's say 7% below league average, then how good does he have to remain on defense to stay an above average player? How likely do you think he is to remain that good?

 

Crunch the numbers. Do the math. Make a point.

 

Why are you replying to yourself? Did you forget to switch back over the the pane with your BTS account?

[Laika]

Why are you replying to yourself? Did you forget to switch back over the the pane with your BTS account?

 

I missed edit and hit reply.

 

Pane? Do you mean tab? Who says pane?

[Dr. Dinger]

I missed edit and hit reply.

 

Pane? Do you mean tab? Who says pane?

 

What's a tab? I use Netscape Navigator.