The case for re-signing Navarro

[TilsonBritoFan]

2 years ago we managed to snag Navarro for 2 years, $8 million.

 

Anyone think he'd be willing to sign a similar contract again? Maybe 2 years, $10 million?

 

If we don't sign him we're likely going to get stuck with the Thole and Dickey show. Switch hitter, and most importantly, if something were to happen to Martin for a stretch of time, we wouldn't be completely sunk having to go with Navarro for a while.

 

If we end up going with Thole/Martin, if Martin gets hurt, we're f***ED.

 

I don't think $5 million is that much to spend on an above average backup catcher, who can act as capable insurance for Martin. Plus he works well with Marco and the other players seem to love him.

 

I guess my question is, if you could get Navarro to sign a 2 year deal for $5 million or less per year would you do it?

[dineke]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Y_ODcECzxGQ/T4sMKffGa8I/AAAAAAAAA88/LnQ8Dvynqbg/s1600/michael-scott-no.gif

[Laika]

Navarro only had 192 PA last year.

 

He'll be looking for more playing time elsewhere and he'll probably get it, so it's probably a moot point. Catching looks pretty thin on the FA market.

 

He's also not particularly good so I don't care what he does. And they'd obviously bring someone else in rather than roster Thole. The SS Thole hit rock bottom with a 74 wRC+ in AAA last year.

[nmrch]

lol, Navarro is f***ing terrible, even for a backup catcher.

[AdamGreenwood]

I think we have to give him a chance to explore the market to see if he can get a starting gig.

But if he can't get one, I'd love to have him back, as a backup. He and Estrada work very well together, and as backup catchers go, he's pretty good.

And $4 million for one year might get it done. The Jays tried all year to trade him and found no takers, so I don't think there is a ton of demand for him.

 

People say we don't need him, but good luck finding a better backup catcher for less.

[glory]

Martin not catching Dickey > Navarro as backup catcher.

[AdamGreenwood]

Ok, so some people want to go with Thole.

 

So, we put a guy in projected for a .277 wOBA with a 70 wRC+

vs Navarro who is projected for a .308 wOBA with a 93 wRC+

 

Navarro's also projected for 1.1 WAR vs Thole who is projected for 0.1, which is generous considering he hasn't been above 0, since 2011.

 

I didn't see that many of Dickey's starts though, so not sure how badly Martin handled them. Is it a one WAR difference?

Also, if we don't go with Navarro or Thole, who do we go as for our backup catcher? Suggestions?

[Spanky99]

Ok, so some people want to go with Thole. Suggestions?

 

Look at all the people in here suggesting Thole?!?!

 

Erik Kratz!

[TilsonBritoFan]

Unbelievable the hate for Navvy in this thread. I'm quite surprised. Below average backup catcher? Come on.

[Spanky99]

Unbelievable the hate for Navvy in this thread. I'm quite surprised. Below average backup catcher? Come on.

 

Too expensive, thats my issue with him. Plus, he'll be going to a club that offers him a starting role. I don't see much hate in here, there's only a few posts...

[Travis_Snider]

I would take him back, he will probably have better options though.

 

Cant see it happening.

[TilsonBritoFan]

Too expensive, thats my issue with him. Plus, he'll be going to a club that offers him a starting role. I don't see much hate in here, there's only a few posts...

 

someone called him "f***ing terrible" which is ridiculous. He'd be a great backup catcher if we could afford him.

 

Thats the thing. Maybe as you suggest he would be too expensive. But it depends what our payroll is. If we're willing to spend $12 million on a #4 starter (Dickey) we should be willing to spend $4-5 million on a decent backup catcher for insurance if Martin gets hurt. Its a pretty important position. We'd be left scrambling if we were ever forced to rely on Thole for a long period of time.

 

My original post was made in the hypothetical situation where Navvy would want to come back. If the market doesn't present itself to him the way he wants, he may very well be willing to come back and be a backup catcher for a team with World Series aspirations.

[vilifyingforce]

Ok, so some people want to go with Thole.

 

So, we put a guy in projected for a .277 wOBA with a 70 wRC+

vs Navarro who is projected for a .308 wOBA with a 93 wRC+

 

Navarro's also projected for 1.1 WAR vs Thole who is projected for 0.1, which is generous considering he hasn't been above 0, since 2011.

 

I didn't see that many of Dickey's starts though, so not sure how badly Martin handled them. Is it a one WAR difference?

Also, if we don't go with Navarro or Thole, who do we go as for our backup catcher? Suggestions?

 

It's not that Martin handled them badly, it's that they seemed to really beat him up. I'd rather get a defensive catcher who can handle Dickey. Whether it's Thole, Kratz or somebody I'm rather indifferent.

[KingKat]

 

I didn't see that many of Dickey's starts though, so not sure how badly Martin handled them. Is it a one WAR difference?

 

I recommend reading this piece from Capital Jays on Dickey's effect on Martin: http://capitaljays.com/2015/11/04/the-knuckleball-effect-on-russell-martin/

[o2cui2i]

Can A.J. Jimenez catch a knuckle ball all winter and be our back up next year?

[Spanky99]

someone called him "f***ing terrible" which is ridiculous. He'd be a great backup catcher if we could afford him.

 

Thats the thing. Maybe as you suggest he would be too expensive. But it depends what our payroll is. If we're willing to spend $12 million on a #4 starter (Dickey) we should be willing to spend $4-5 million on a decent backup catcher for insurance if Martin gets hurt. Its a pretty important position. We'd be left scrambling if we were ever forced to rely on Thole for a long period of time.

 

My original post was made in the hypothetical situation where Navvy would want to come back. If the market doesn't present itself to him the way he wants, he may very well be willing to come back and be a backup catcher for a team with World Series aspirations.

 

It'd have to be one hell of an injury to keep Martin out long, a back up at league minimum is better spent for half a win, on insurance, he's too pricey. Kratz could put up the same WAR for the 150-175 AB's for Dickey starts, as would Navvy for Estrada starts. Not to mention our offense is more than capable to carry an injury to Martin if he goes down. That cash could go towards an SP/RP or whatever. I agree about Dioner though, he isn't terrible, just too expensive.

[KingKat]

Can A.J. Jimenez catch a knuckle ball all winter and be our back up next year?

 

If the idea is to just train someone into the job, can't it be someone better than A.J. Jimenez? He was about as bad as Thole offensively in AAA. Might as well go with Thole and save yourself the work.

[o2cui2i]

If the idea is to just train someone into the job, can't it be someone better than A.J. Jimenez? He was about as bad as Thole offensively in AAA. Might as well go with Thole and save yourself the work.

 

are there any options out there that they could trade for with a mild hit to our depth to get someone else? we really don't have a catcher coming up and I REALLY hate the idea of Martin catching RA

[Spanky99]

Can A.J. Jimenez catch a knuckle ball all winter and be our back up next year?

 

Why, Jimenez is just as terrible as Thole is with the lumber? At least Thole can catch Dickey.

[Spanky99]

If the idea is to just train someone into the job, can't it be someone better than A.J. Jimenez? He was about as bad as Thole offensively in AAA. Might as well go with Thole and save yourself the work.

 

Godammit!!!

[Spanky99]

are there any options out there that they could trade for with a mild hit to our depth to get someone else? we really don't have a catcher coming up and I REALLY hate the idea of Martin catching RA

 

Kratz is a FA... and has caught Dickey, there, problem solved. Hah!

[o2cui2i]

Why, Jimenez is just as terrible as Thole is with the lumber? At least Thole can catch Dickey.

 

I wasn't saying it was a good idea, just trying to see what options there are.... that's why I asked and didn't make a statement.

[o2cui2i]

Kratz is a FA... and has caught Dickey, there, problem solved. Hah!

 

what would it cost to sign him?

[KingKat]

are there any options out there that they could trade for with a mild hit to our depth to get someone else? we really don't have a catcher coming up and I REALLY hate the idea of Martin catching RA

 

There are probably several guys out there who could learn to catch the knuckleball competently if given the opportunity but those opportunities are few and far between. Kratz is the most obvious name out there because he had a spring training with R.A. and reportedly was doing well and was close to stealing the Thole job. Otherwise, I would think what you're looking for is someone who is nice and quiet behind the plate. Last thing you want is someone who stabs at the ball so I would think that catchers who are good framers are probably good at catching the knuckler. Off the top of my head, if I was targeting a guy who hasn't caught it but looks like he could do it, I'd probably say Martin Maldonado.

[Grant77]

are there any options out there that they could trade for with a mild hit to our depth to get someone else? we really don't have a catcher coming up and I REALLY hate the idea of Martin catching RA

 

Spanky made a good suggestion in Kratz. There are options, but how do we know if they can catch a knuckler?

 

If they can do it, I'd suggest Steve Clevenger (lost spot with Wieters back) and Jose Lobaton (non-tender) as possible options.

[Spanky99]

what would it cost to sign him?

 

League minimum if he has the job.

[o2cui2i]

thanks guys. interesting discussion.

[Jonn]

Zero case. So case closed.

[burlingtonbandit]

If there is a reduction in performance for all Catchers catching Dickey you might as well just bring Thole back. If no one is going to give you offence just get the guy who is the best at catching him. Non-tender Thole and sign him back for 500-700K.

[reedjohnsonfan]

I wasn't saying it was a good idea, just trying to see what options there are.... that's why I asked and didn't make a statement.

 

Kratz will be paid nothing because despite what some radicals believe he sucks. Kratz is a minor league catcher who had some nice framing stats FFS. Front offices aren't retarded by offering him nothing, he f***ing sucks.