Game 4 Starter

[RealAccountant]

Holland has been pretty bad vs RHH.

 

What I'd like to see is Dickey go through the order twice (take him out earlier if needed) then go to Price for 3 innings. After that go to the bullpen as you usually would.

 

Thats retarded. Should just start Price if he is ready

[EMK19]

You guys should stop assuming they will pound Holland. He's had a rough stretch but has more upside to put together a good start than all their pitchers outside of Cole Hamels.

 

Yup, while admittingly not the same Holland as he used to be, he actually had the best batting avg. against in their rotation vs. us coming into the series. I doubt it'll be easy.

[Krylian]

I am just scared to death that Dickey will have one of his 4-5 run outings

 

I think we're all afraid of that...but I really don't think Gibby will let it get there. If it starts to look rough, he'll yank Dickey and get Price or Stroman in there.

[AdamGreenwood]

By now, it seems pretty obvious that there is something wrong with Price.

 

1) They held him back, so he didn't pitch for ten games before Game 1.

2) He wasn't that effective in Game 1.

3) They warmed him up, in case they wanted him to pitch out of the bullpen tonight.

4) He isn't being considered for Game 4.

 

At this point, it's unlikely that he's going to start another game in the playoffs.

There's clearly something wrong with him - either fatigue or a minor tear.

[Krylian]

By now, it seems pretty obvious that there is something wrong with Price.

 

1) They held him back, so he didn't pitch for ten games before Game 1.

2) He wasn't that effective in Game 1.

3) They warmed him up, in case they wanted him to pitch out of the bullpen tonight.

4) He isn't being considered for Game 4.

 

At this point, it's unlikely that he's going to start another game in the playoffs.

There's clearly something wrong with him - either fatigue or a minor tear.

 

1. They held him back to give him a bit more rest and not risk injury in his last start.

2. He's never been effective in post-season. Was he injured then too? He was jacked up/nervous and it showed. His stuff was good...his command was way off.

3. They warmed him up cause Cecil is out, Loup was already used, and a bunch of lefties were coming up and if things went south, they wanted to be able to react.

4. Gibby said he'd talk to Price and expects that he should be fine to come in for game 4 if they need him. Besides, if they got him up tonight, then clearly he's healthy enough to pitch tomorrow...the only way he wouldn't is if he came in and pitched tonight.

[intentional wok]

By now, it seems pretty obvious that there is something wrong with Price.

 

1) They held him back, so he didn't pitch for ten games before Game 1.

2) He wasn't that effective in Game 1.

3) They warmed him up, in case they wanted him to pitch out of the bullpen tonight.

4) He isn't being considered for Game 4.

 

At this point, it's unlikely that he's going to start another game in the playoffs.

There's clearly something wrong with him - either fatigue or a minor tear.

 

It's possible tomorrow will be a Dickey-Price daisy chain sort of start too. That wouldn't be something I'd advertise.

 

But to further support your argument, there was also that final start against Tampa (OTOH, Archer got lit up that day too).

 

Interesting developments...

[BigCecil]

You guys should stop assuming they will pound Holland. He's had a rough stretch but has more upside to put together a good start than all their pitchers outside of Cole Hamels.

 

Exactly. Holland can be solid. Not starting Price (unless something is up with him health wise) is a poor decision. Even if it works.

[Caper]

Holland has been pretty bad vs RHH.

 

What I'd like to see is Dickey go through the order twice (take him out earlier if needed) then go to Price for 3 innings. After that go to the bullpen as you usually would.

 

 

 

It really depends on so much. They should have been up about 7 today and they very well could be tomorrow. If you can get to Holland for a big lead, you got to ride Dicky as long as you can. I'd love to see a complete game 8-4 win for the Jays. Going to game 5 with Stroman and Price ready to go.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Exactly. Holland can be solid. Not starting Price (unless something is up with him health wise) is a poor decision. Even if it works.

 

Totally agree on Price. This is probably one of the worst decisions the team has made in a long time IMO. Maybe they are using Dickey for a couple of innings before Price or Stroman for the Dickey effect...

[Captain Adama]

It's possible tomorrow will be a Dickey-Price daisy chain sort of start too. That wouldn't be something I'd advertise.

 

But to further support your argument, there was also that final start against Tampa (OTOH, Archer got lit up that day too).

 

Interesting developments...

 

How come?

[Cyborg]

How come?

So the hitters prepare as much as possible for Dickey, face him once, and then have to face Price.

[bbgobie]

I hope it's not Dickey Stroman today and price tommorow. His post season performance plus being on 5 days rest and whatever last night was don't sound good to me. Plus Stroman eats adversity and pressure for breakfast. Not to mention regular 4days rest

[NJay]

If the leadoff guy gets on, Dickey should be pulled.

[intentional wok]

How come?

 

Because no one should be giving away any strategy whatsoever. Let the other club stew over the possibility a bit.

 

Not even sure why anyone advertises the starter before mandatory lineup submission, frankly. There might not be much to be gained, but there's zero to lose by trying it.

[nextyear]

If the leadoff guy gets on, Dickey should be pulled.

 

Not really. Dickey might have a great knuckle-ball that is almost unhittable and a few Rangers might still get on base.

 

I think we will know early on in the game whether Dickey has it or not, but he needs some freedom to make mistakes just as Price or Stroman have. He should be pulled once he makes two or three mistakes in a row and there is little chance of him getting out of it without giving up a few runs.

[BigCecil]

Its kind of fitting and ironic that Gibby gives the ball today with our backs to the wall to the last remaining piece from MIA-RA-Melky deals era team.

 

Unless Price is have health issues using a possible RA-Price or Stro combo, rationalizing it due to the "Dickey effect" is just getting too cute. Every time any reliever comes in for RA they get that effect. Whoop de do.

 

Price today and Stro in 5th game if we get there.

[fireballW]

I think we're all afraid of that...but I really don't think Gibby will let it get there. If it starts to look rough, he'll yank Dickey and get Price or Stroman in there.

 

Dickey has been doing really well for a while. He hasn't walked more than two in a game for quite some time, which is a great sign. Is it an uncomfortable feeling going into an elimination game with Dickey? Yes. But honestly David Price admitted himself about nerves, and despite a lot of people here who like to undermine the human element, his playoff numbers make me nervous just like Dickey does. It is probably just small sample size but there's a chance it's not.

[baloojayz]

I think they are staying with Dickey cuz they already slighted him starting Estrada ahead of him and it would be unthinkable to just skip him altogether after that. Throw in that Price was off last start and the downside of messing with his rest rotation, they probably want to bring things back to normal and start him in game 5 should it get there and not go from resting him for 14 days to pitching him on short rest.

[BigCecil]

Dickey has been doing really well for a while. He hasn't walked more than two in a game for quite some time, which is a great sign. Is it an uncomfortable feeling going into an elimination game with Dickey? Yes. But honestly David Price admitted himself about nerves, and despite a lot of people here who like to undermine the human element, his playoff numbers make me nervous just like Dickey does. It is probably just small sample size but there's a chance it's not.

 

I think we will/can win today regardless of this decision. That doesn't make it the right one. Tulo could have popped up that ball last night instead of hammering it. They shouldn't have pitched to him regardless. Sometimes you just get lucky.

[nextyear]

Its kind of fitting and ironic that Gibby gives the ball today with our backs to the wall to the last remaining piece from MIA-RA-Melky deals era team.

 

Unless Price is have health issues using a possible RA-Price or Stro combo, rationalizing it due to the "Dickey effect" is just getting too cute. Every time any reliever comes in for RA they get that effect. Whoop de do.

 

Price today and Stro in 5th game if we get there.

 

Who said anything about the "Dickey effect". As hard as it is for some to believe, Dickey has pitched well since the All Star break, he has in the past won the Cy Young award and just as Estrada did last night Dickey might help the Blue Jays win the game.

 

Have you forgotten that the Blue Jays lost game 1 that Price threw and he has a 0 wins - 6 losses record when starting in the playoffs (just 1 win in relief). David Price pitched well in game 1 but he is not invincible as can be seen from his playoff record - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/priceda01.shtml. Starting Price doesn't mean a sure win, it might not even mean a better chance of winning than with Dickey starting (I think it is a toss-up).

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Dickey only really scares me when the other team has a huge power threat. He probably isn't going to give up a bunch of hits in a row but he is prone to the long ball. Fielder is their only true power threat and he's lost out there.

 

I'm confident he'll do well.

[BigCecil]

Who said anything about the "Dickey effect". As hard as it is for some to believe, Dickey has pitched well since the All Star break, has in the past won the Cy Young award and just as Estrada did last night help the blue Jays win the game.

 

Have you forgotten that the Blue Jays lost game 1 that Price threw and he has a 0 wins - 6 losses record when starting in the playoffs (just 1 win in relief). David Price pitched well in game 1 but he is not invincible as can be seen from his playoff record - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/priceda01.shtml Starting Price doesn't mean a sure win, it might not even mean a better chance of winning than with Dickey starting (I think it is a toss-up).

 

Lots of posters have mentioned it. I'm not a RA hater. I actually started the RA Appreciation Thread. I just know what he is. He is an innings eater.

 

I haven't forgotten anything. I could give a s*** Price wasn't great in his last 2 starts. I could give a s*** he is 0-6 in the post season. Kershaw has also had his issues in the post season. Randy Johnson was 0-6 in the post season to start. I don't care. I still put my best on the bump unless he is hurt with backs to the wall and Stro for game 5.

 

That's what HOU did on 3 days rest in the WC game against the Yankees, and that's what we should do.

[BigCecil]

Dickey only really scares me when the other team has a huge power threat. He probably isn't going to give up a bunch of hits in a row but he is prone to the long ball. Fielder is their only true power threat and he's lost out there.

 

I'm confident he'll do well.

 

I think their LHH line up is perfect for teeing off on RA if the knuckler is at all flat. Hamilton got a couple hits last night which also might get him going. Some people forget about Choo. Guy had big 2nd half and hit 23. Even little Odor had 16.

 

Beltre may also be back in the line up.

[nextyear]

In spite of what anyone thinks, I enjoy watching Dickey when his knuckleball is working (which it usually is) and I am looking forward to watching him pitch this afternoon.

[nextyear]

Over Dickey's major league career he has only given up 1.10 hr/9 innings (1.05 HR/9 this year) 2.8 walks/9 innings (2.56 BB/9 this year) - http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1245&position=P. Which is not bad at all.

[BigCecil]

Over Dickey's major league career he has only given up 1.10 hr/9 innings (1.05 HR/9 this year) 2.8 walks/9 innings (2.56 BB/9 this year) - http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1245&position=P. Which is not bad at all.

 

Price and RA WAR last 3 seasons:

 

4.4 1.7

6.1 1.7

6.4 2.1

 

Guess which one is Price. Unless he is hurt, this shouldn't even be a discussion.

[Krylian]

Dickey has been doing really well for a while. He hasn't walked more than two in a game for quite some time, which is a great sign. Is it an uncomfortable feeling going into an elimination game with Dickey? Yes. But honestly David Price admitted himself about nerves, and despite a lot of people here who like to undermine the human element, his playoff numbers make me nervous just like Dickey does. It is probably just small sample size but there's a chance it's not.

 

I wonder how nerves could affect the knuckler. It's already a finicky pitch as it is...

 

Man oh man...Today might just give me a coronary.

[intentional wok]

Price and RA WAR last 3 seasons:

 

4.4 1.7

6.1 1.7

6.4 2.1

 

Guess which one is Price. Unless he is hurt, this shouldn't even be a discussion.

 

I'm inclined to agree. Price will likely be ready in reserve to relieve Dickey if he looks shaky.

 

Which raises the question of why not just let your superior back-up starter be the... main starter.

 

Also, while I don't think this should factor into the decision at all, I don't want to see R.A. Dickey struggle and take the heat for this game should the team lose. I like Dickey. He's been a scapegoat for a while, but he's also a modestly good reason why the team is where it is right now. I've read lots of Dickey hate over the years (I've even posted some myself), but I really don't want him to be the whipping boy. I think that would be pretty sad. If the Jays lose I want it to be fair and square and with a fight with no one being a goat at the end of it.

[BallsDeep]

We wouldn't be here without Dickeys second half, let him start. Yank early if no action on the knuckle ball.

[Lil Looper]

at first i thought it had to be price because he is an ace, etc... you are paying this guy to pitch more than one playoff game

 

but RA has been solid and looked good down the stretch

if they played hamels id play price but i feel dickey can easily outduel holland

 

If we lose we dickey so be it, its not an egregious play