Dave Dombrowski signs with Boston as President of Baseball Ops

[Swervin81]

Beane's style has never been about budget. I can't see him splurging in the FA market. Even if he did, he'd probably trade the player a year later.

 

>Trades away Donaldson to save money (oh no, $4.5M is too much)

>Signs Billy Butler to $10M per year

[Seth]

There is a lot of misunderstanding that I'm seeing, even in the media, who are the alleged experts.

 

Dombrowski isnt replacing Larry Lucchino as President/CEO of the Boston Red Sox, but instead is coming in at a newly created President of Baseball Operations position. He's the top baseball guy, reporting up to the new President/CEO Sam Kennedy, who was promoted from EVP/COO role to replace Lucchino, in which he was the top business operations guy. Up to now, Cherington and Kennedy had been the top Baseball and Business Ops guys, respectively, reporting up to Lucchino, so its easy to see why Cherington quit. He was in fact being demoted, by them bringing in another baseball operations guy above him, whereas before there was no one...he reported to Lucchino.

 

In this realm, its not really surprising that Dombrowski did not come to the Jays. With the Jays, Beeston is President and CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays with his direct reports, AA as the EVP/GM (Head of Baseball Operations) and Stephen Brooks is EVP, Head of Business Operations. Dombrowski's role in Boston isnt equal to Beeston, its actually equal to AA (albeit with a more impressive President Title). I never thought Dombrowski was qualified to replace Beeston, similar to how Kenny Williams is not, as they do not have the Business Operations background. If they brought in Dombrowski as President of Baseball Ops (creating that position), it would mean that (1) they still would have to replace Beeston, and (2) it would be a demotion for AA, similar to how it wouldve been for Cherington had he stayed.

 

Duquette is the only named candidate who has both Baseball and Business Ops experience, which is what the team would look for in a candidate to replace Beeston as President/CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays. Duquette has started a pretty successful sports academy, owned and run (from a business standpoint) a minor league baseball team, and was a founder of the Israeli baseball league.

 

Not sure many posters here have an interest really in the business side of things, but thought i'd help clear up some misconceptions here.

 

The Jays could very easily give AA a position similar to Dombrowski, they could very easily hand the business side of the Presidents gig off to Stephen Brooks who already looks after the majority of the business side for the Jays.

[jays_fever]

>Trades away Donaldson to save money (oh no, $4.5M is too much)

>Signs Billy Butler to $10M per year

 

He didnt trade Donaldson because of Budget restrictions.

[baubau]

>Trades away Donaldson to save money (oh no, $4.5M is too much)

>Signs Billy Butler to $10M per year

 

?

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Care to elaborate?

[DuckDuckGose]

Many of those signings haven't actually produced much surplus value; the players just all happened to be good simultaneously in 2013. He wasted so many good assets chasing closers around in his first couple years, which just reeked of bad process: Reddick for Bailey, Lowrie for Melancon, trading Melancon after a fluky bad season and other stuff to get Hanrahan, etc. I don't think Ben Cherington was a very good GM. Don't really think missing out on Dombrowski is a big deal either for the Blue Jays.

 

They won a WS bc of those contracts who cares about surplus value over the span of the contract.

[DuckDuckGose]

>Trades away Donaldson to save money (oh no, $4.5M is too much)

>Signs Billy Butler to $10M per year

 

Beane didn't want to trade Donaldson. AA made him an offer he felt was too good to pass up.

[luggies]

So who is our next GM if AA gets a great offer this fall?

[DuckDuckGose]

The narrative at the time was "wow Cherington and the Red Sox got great deals on all these mid-level free agents" but they didn't. All of their players (including existing ones) just happened to play well in 2013. Obviously that team is immortal because they won a World Series but we can still analyze the front office's decisions critically.

 

They added a bunch of guys they felt would peak at the same time and push them in to contention. Obviously they wanted to contend beyond 2013 but it worked out great for them.

[jaysfan2014]

While Dombrowski did great jobs in Montreal and Miami, his work in Detroit has yet to get them a World Series.. and Boston's mess is pretty bad.

 

And BTW, Sportsnet really blew it on the Sox payroll. Here's the correct numbers projected according to Baseball Reference (including arb raises and options)

 

2016: $163.9M (estimated--could be much higher)

2017: $170.2M

2018: $174.1M

2019: $147.5M

 

Basically, Dombrowski has his hands full cleaning up this mess.

[Spanky99]

There is a lot of misunderstanding that I'm seeing, even in the media, who are the alleged experts.

 

Dombrowski isnt replacing Larry Lucchino as President/CEO of the Boston Red Sox, but instead is coming in at a newly created President of Baseball Operations position. He's the top baseball guy, reporting up to the new President/CEO Sam Kennedy, who was promoted from EVP/COO role to replace Lucchino, in which he was the top business operations guy. Up to now, Cherington and Kennedy had been the top Baseball and Business Ops guys, respectively, reporting up to Lucchino, so its easy to see why Cherington quit. He was in fact being demoted, by them bringing in another baseball operations guy above him, whereas before there was no one...he reported to Lucchino.

 

In this realm, its not really surprising that Dombrowski did not come to the Jays. With the Jays, Beeston is President and CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays with his direct reports, AA as the EVP/GM (Head of Baseball Operations) and Stephen Brooks is EVP, Head of Business Operations. Dombrowski's role in Boston isnt equal to Beeston, its actually equal to AA (albeit with a more impressive President Title). I never thought Dombrowski was qualified to replace Beeston, similar to how Kenny Williams is not, as they do not have the Business Operations background. If they brought in Dombrowski as President of Baseball Ops (creating that position), it would mean that (1) they still would have to replace Beeston, and (2) it would be a demotion for AA, similar to how it wouldve been for Cherington had he stayed.

 

Duquette is the only named candidate who has both Baseball and Business Ops experience, which is what the team would look for in a candidate to replace Beeston as President/CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays. Duquette has started a pretty successful sports academy, owned and run (from a business standpoint) a minor league baseball team, and was a founder of the Israeli baseball league.

 

Not sure many posters here have an interest really in the business side of things, but thought i'd help clear up some misconceptions here.

 

Thank you...most kept bringing up past success as a GM and I was like no, they're replacing Beeston folks, the business side. Thanks for the breakdown.

[Spanky99]

The Jays could very easily give AA a position similar to Dombrowski, they could very easily hand the business side of the Presidents gig off to Stephen Brooks who already looks after the majority of the business side for the Jays.

 

He pretty much mentions that in his post, mate.

[TDotttt2005]

He pretty much mentions that in his post, mate.

 

It could happen, they could have President of Baseball Ops (AA) and President of Business Ops (Brooks). The Cubs have a similar structure, with Epstein as Pres. Baseball Ops and a guy named Crane Kenney as Pres. of Business Ops. They both report up to Tom Ricketts, the Chairman/Owner of the Cubs. (Family made their money founding the predecessor to TD Ameritrade).

 

The only thing with that setup is that the Cubs have a Chairman/Owner who is involved with the day-to-day management, in Ricketts. With the Jays, they're not dealing with a monolithic chairman, but instead the corporate leadership of Rogers. I guess Rick Brace, Pres. of Rogers Media, would be the person in that scheme that AA and Brooks would report up to, but the Jays are only one of the properties Brace/Rogers Media runs. It would make more sense in terms of time and efficiency for Rogers to deal with 1 guy who is in charge of everything Blue Jays, ie. Beeston now, instead of having 2 guys discussing the different aspects of the team.

 

Even in Boston now, its a bit convoluted as some Globe reporters are now saying Dombrowski will report not the new President/CEO Sam Kennedy, but instead directly to the owner, John Henry, which was a stipulation to get him to come to Boston. But again, Henry is the monolithic Chairman/Managing Partner...not another corporation.

 

For those who follow the business side of sports, seeing these new structures, the 'title inflation', and how different organizations choose to operate is very interesting, as its a recent change from the normal structure that almost all teams have employed for decades.

[Virgil_Hiltz]

Since stepping down as CFL Commissioner what is Mark Cohon doing now a days?

Isn't Tim Leuwike(sp?) looking for a job?

[BTS]

Many of those signings haven't actually produced much surplus value; the players just all happened to be good simultaneously in 2013. He wasted so many good assets chasing closers around in his first couple years, which just reeked of bad process: Reddick for Bailey, Lowrie for Melancon, trading Melancon after a fluky bad season and other stuff to get Hanrahan, etc. I don't think Ben Cherington was a very good GM. Don't really think missing out on Dombrowski is a big deal either for the Blue Jays.

 

Victorino = 6.4 fWAR for 39M (3 years)

Ross = 1.1 fWAR for 6.1M (2 years)

Dempster = 0.5 fWAR for 13.2M (1 year)

Uehara = 4.2 fWAR for 8.4M (1 year + option)

Gomes = 1 fWAR for 10M (2 years)

Napoli = 3.9 fWAR for 8M

Drew = 3.4 fWAR for 9.5M

 

Those signings yielded 20.5 fWAR for $94.2M, so they paid $4.6M per win on the market for 20.5 wins over 3 years. That's pretty solid free agent shopping. With no commitments longer than 3 years, IMO that's pretty much an ideal way to use free agency.

 

I'm no big fan of Cherington, but I love how he handled the market at the time.

Edited August 20, 2015 by BTS

[Brownie19]

I would never want Tinnish to be a GM, I had a conversation with him one time when he visited my workplace and he came off as such a douche bag. This was like 2 years into AA GM tenure.

 

That seems like a perfectly logical reason to believe he'd fail as the GM...

[xposbrad]

While Dombrowski did great jobs in Montreal and Miami, his work in Detroit has yet to get them a World Series.. and Boston's mess is pretty bad.

 

And BTW, Sportsnet really blew it on the Sox payroll. Here's the correct numbers projected according to Baseball Reference (including arb raises and options)

 

2016: $163.9M (estimated--could be much higher)

2017: $170.2M

2018: $174.1M

2019: $147.5M

 

Basically, Dombrowski has his hands full cleaning up this mess.

 

Anyone is tradable if they chip in money. They would find teams to take Panda/Ramirez in a second if they put in a couple of M a year (they are also only 29/31 years old so teams will take chances on them), and they'd even get a prospect back. They also have a lot of young guys, high end prospects and a top 10 farm system. Their payroll projections are meaningless if they make some big trades, the fact is, they can outspend the jays on payroll. Boston knows how to win, and their situation will only get better because they will make changes to their on field product. I think Dombrowski will get it done there, it's only a short term mess.

[NotThatGuy]

Victorino = 6.4 fWAR for 39M (3 years)

Ross = 1.1 fWAR for 6.1M (2 years)

Dempster = 0.5 fWAR for 13.2M (1 year)

Uehara = 4.2 fWAR for 8.4M (1 year + option)

Gomes = 1 fWAR for 10M (2 years)

 

Those signings yielded 13.2 fWAR for $76.7M, so they paid $5.81M per win on the market for 13.2 wins over 3 years. That's pretty solid free agent shopping. With no commitments longer than 3 years, IMO that's pretty much an ideal way to use free agency.

 

I'm no big fan of Cherington, but I love how he handled the market at the time.

 

 

Don't forget Napoli and Drew. And the trade of Melancon for Hanrahan which North criticized, also netted the Brock Holt for the Sox.