Trading Bautista and/or Encarnacion

[glory]

They might as well keep them. Gives the new GM one year to see if he can construct a roster around Bautista/Donaldson/Edwin/Martin with some payroll flexibility. It won't be easy since they'll need at least 2-3 starting pitchers, but we don't need an Astros style rebuilding. Keep trying to win every year.

[Jimcanuck]

They might as well keep them. Gives the new GM one year to see if he can construct a roster around Bautista/Donaldson/Edwin/Martin with some payroll flexibility. It won't be easy since they'll need at least 2-3 starting pitchers, but we don't need an Astros style rebuilding. Keep trying to win every year.

 

of course if the pitching continues to suck and the jays are 9 back at the break.... crazy NOT to move at least one

[BigCecil]

This is good news. I agree that they are unlikely to get back good talent for them. Keep them & make one final push for a playoff spot in 2016.

 

I hope Rogers doesn't trade them as an excuse to cut payroll.

 

Edwin's and Jose's deal are abut the 2 best moves AA has made. He took risks and they have been great value.

 

They lose Mark B, RA (no option pick up), Romero and Navarro $ next year. Martins $ increases.

 

They would love to dump Reyes, but we have no viable replacement if we don't get someone younger coming back, and we would have to eat some of the $. 3.2 WAR last year was his best since 2011 and before that 2008. He is way too expensive for the value.

 

They will pray Hutch, Stro, Sanchez and Norris produce and maybe add a FA SP and some pen depth (please GOD!). Hoffman cant be counted on in 2016.

 

Trading Edwin and/or Jose is all about what comes back in a win now or if we go into yet another rebuild. I don't see enough coming back to offset the loss if we are playing to win this year or next.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Only thing is we could live without Reyes and the beat would go on! But how few teams could afford him or be willing to take him? But to me I think I would give 6-8 million a year and pay his 4 million buyout for anybody who takes him, win win!

[shortstop]

winning will likely dictate what happens here. My guesses:

 

a) could easily see the jays >10 games below .500 at which point serious thought must go into Gibby/AA getting the axe & the new GM trading at least one or both of Bautista/Edwin. On my end, would prefer Bautista gone as well as perhaps Buerhle, Dickey and Navarro

 

jays stay around +/- 5 games of .500 in which case we get the team going for it. No idea which way Rogers will go with AA.

 

c) jays +5 games above .500, they're legitimately competing for a playoff spot come August/September and they've earned the right to stay together as a group - likely heading into next year as well. AA keeps his job.

 

baseball is funny - I think (a) is gonna happen but odds are ( will happen. Want (a) or © to happen so at least there's a definitive sense of direction vs. being lost in no man's land with (.

[xposbrad]

The Jays would miss out on a huge opportunity not trading either one now. I know JB is having arm/shoulder issues and he's off to a slow start, but he's 34. If some team will give up a top prospect for him, he has to be traded without even thinking twice. EE is 32, he should have a couple of good years left, but now would be the time to trade him, to get the best return back. The Jays don't have the luxury of just buying any talent like the Red Sox/Yanks/Dodgers, they need to make those moves, otherwise this club will always be average.

[TilsonBritoFan]

What is amazing is that we fell ass backward into Jose and Edwin. We even DFA'd Edwin and he was picked up by the A's for chrissake. We fell ass backward into Edwin and Jose and then got lucky by signing them to extremely cheap contracts they continued to star, AND YET WE STILL CAN'T FIELD A WINNING TEAM.

 

Imagine we never lucked into these 2 players. These last 5 years would have been brutal.

 

I would trade Edwin for Cueto. I think he should be worth a little more than Cueto since he Cueto is about to become a FA. However the Reds don't have a need for a 1B so its not a good fit.

 

I would rather trade Edwin over Bautista because Smoak can easily fill in at 1B and not kill us. When Jose gets healthy we have no other reasonable option to play OF

[TilsonBritoFan]

The Jays would miss out on a huge opportunity not trading either one now. I know JB is having arm/shoulder issues and he's off to a slow start, but he's 34. If some team will give up a top prospect for him, he has to be traded without even thinking twice. EE is 32, he should have a couple of good years left, but now would be the time to trade him, to get the best return back. The Jays don't have the luxury of just buying any talent like the Red Sox/Yanks/Dodgers, they need to make those moves, otherwise this club will always be average.

 

great points

[glory]

Imagine we never lucked into these 2 players. These last 5 years would have been brutal.

 

The sad part is if we never lucked into them, the team might be better off right now. They clearly wanted to rebuild in 2010 (seriously, look at that roster before Bautista went beast mode). Maybe ownership would have been kinder to a long-term rebuild if the team was terrible, rather than .500 or better for AA's first two years.

 

But yes, AA is really, really bad for not being to build a winner when two of the best hitters in the game fell on his lap in a time when offense around the league is down. Can't wait until he is gone.

[BigCecil]

The sad part is if we never lucked into them, the team might be better off right now. They clearly wanted to rebuild in 2010 (seriously, look at that roster before Bautista went beast mode). Maybe ownership would have been kinder to a long-term rebuild if the team was terrible, rather than .500 or better for AA's first two years.

 

But yes, AA is really, really bad for not being to build a winner when two of the best hitters in the game fell on his lap in a time when offense around the league is down. Can't wait until he is gone.

 

Kicking the crap out of AA is fair ball but he doesn't get enough credit for Jose and Edwin. Edwin was f***ing DFAed and we ALL hated him in the "E5" era.

 

After 1.5 good years AA signed him to a long term deal. He did the same with Jose after one good year.

 

That took balls and vision. Overall they have been excellent deals. It didn't happen by accident.

[BigCecil]

The Jays would miss out on a huge opportunity not trading either one now. I know JB is having arm/shoulder issues and he's off to a slow start, but he's 34. If some team will give up a top prospect for him, he has to be traded without even thinking twice. EE is 32, he should have a couple of good years left, but now would be the time to trade him, to get the best return back. The Jays don't have the luxury of just buying any talent like the Red Sox/Yanks/Dodgers, they need to make those moves, otherwise this club will always be average.

 

Name the last 2 full time established successful MLB non arm talent players OUR system has developed in the last 5 years...

[xposbrad]

Name the last 2 full time established successful MLB non arm talent players OUR system has developed in the last 5 years...

 

I never said they have to trade them for young prospects. There are mlb ready players that can be traded for. That logic that you keep them because you might not develop a prospect is extremely bad baseball business. You trade them because that's what smart teams do if they want to retool and compete when they are faced with limited budgets.

[xposbrad]

What is amazing is that we fell ass backward into Jose and Edwin. We even DFA'd Edwin and he was picked up by the A's for chrissake. We fell ass backward into Edwin and Jose and then got lucky by signing them to extremely cheap contracts they continued to star, AND YET WE STILL CAN'T FIELD A WINNING TEAM.

 

Imagine we never lucked into these 2 players. These last 5 years would have been brutal.

 

I would trade Edwin for Cueto. I think he should be worth a little more than Cueto since he Cueto is about to become a FA. However the Reds don't have a need for a 1B so its not a good fit.

 

I would rather trade Edwin over Bautista because Smoak can easily fill in at 1B and not kill us. When Jose gets healthy we have no other reasonable option to play OF

 

Reds would most likely want players with plenty of years under team control left and affordable. If the Jays are going to get Cueto they are going to need to dump guys like Norris/Pompey etc. I think JB is going to go to an AL team if he gets traded, he's mid 30s and if he has to he can dh. EE could be a fit with an NL team, but it has to be win now teams for each player.

[TilsonBritoFan]

Kicking the crap out of AA is fair ball but he doesn't get enough credit for Jose and Edwin. Edwin was f***ing DFAed and we ALL hated him in the "E5" era.

 

After 1.5 good years AA signed him to a long term deal. He did the same with Jose after one good year.

 

That took balls and vision. Overall they have been excellent deals. It didn't happen by accident.

 

It pretty much was by accident. They didn't think Edwin was about to explode, otherwise they wouldn't have DFA'd him only to have the A's grab him. Luckily the A's were just as stupid and let him go again so we could grab him again.

 

AA had no idea that Edwin was going to go full beast mode.

 

Same with Joey B. The Jays did not see that happening. They lucked out on that one too.

[TilsonBritoFan]

Reds would most likely want players with plenty of years under team control left and affordable. If the Jays are going to get Cueto they are going to need to dump guys like Norris/Pompey etc. I think JB is going to go to an AL team if he gets traded, he's mid 30s and if he has to he can dh. EE could be a fit with an NL team, but it has to be win now teams for each player.

 

I think its the other way around. EE is the one who needs to DH, so he'd be worth more to an AL team. Jose can still play in the field at a decent level and has a cannon (if it heals). Both are probably worth more in the AL, but Jose is definitely worth more in the NL than Edwin is.

[ElNik2013]

It pretty much was by accident. They didn't think Edwin was about to explode, otherwise they wouldn't have DFA'd him only to have the A's grab him. Luckily the A's were just as stupid and let him go again so we could grab him again.

 

AA had no idea that Edwin was going to go full beast mode.

 

Same with Joey B. The Jays did not see that happening. They lucked out on that one too.

 

 

 

I wouldn't completely disagree with you, but why bring EE back at all?

 

Again, this is not to suggest that the F/O knew he'd explode, but there were some signs in 2011.

[Atothe]

I've grown fond of Batista, I want him to finish his career as a jay and put him up on the level of excellence

[Jimcanuck]

I've grown fond of Batista, I want him to finish his career as a jay and put him up on the level of excellence

 

Ban for letting emotions dictate business decision

[glory]

The Nats could use one of them. Not sure who they'd give up, though.

[Boxcar]

The Nats could use one of them. Not sure who they'd give up, though.

 

How do you figure..

[SaskJaysFan_2]

If the Jays went fire sale, could they get enough young, controllable players and farm prospects to build a great team in 2-3 years?

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Edwin's and Jose's deal are abut the 2 best moves AA has made. He took risks and they have been great value.

 

They lose Mark B, RA (no option pick up), Romero and Navarro $ next year. Martins $ increases.

 

They would love to dump Reyes, but we have no viable replacement if we don't get someone younger coming back, and we would have to eat some of the $. 3.2 WAR last year was his best since 2011 and before that 2008. He is way too expensive for the value.

 

They will pray Hutch, Stro, Sanchez and Norris produce and maybe add a FA SP and some pen depth (please GOD!). Hoffman cant be counted on in 2016.

 

Trading Edwin and/or Jose is all about what comes back in a win now or if we go into yet another rebuild. I don't see enough coming back to offset the loss if we are playing to win this year or next.

 

Wow, it's amazing how much money they will save in 2016. Has anyone done the numbers? And at this point, I expect the Dickey option NOT to be picked up, barring a stellar rest of season.

[BTS]

If the Jays went fire sale, could they get enough young, controllable players and farm prospects to build a great team in 2-3 years?

 

The only assets they have that would make sense to sell are Bautista, Edwin, and Cecil. Could definitely get a haul, but at this point there's probably no franchise-altering top-10 prospect types on the table.

[GD]

The only assets they have that would make sense to sell are Bautista, Edwin, and Cecil. Could definitely get a haul, but at this point there's probably no franchise-altering top-10 prospect types on the table.

 

Maybe Hutch? Like you said, wouldn't really want to pay for his FA years.

[BTS]

Maybe Hutch? Like you said, wouldn't really want to pay for his FA years.

 

Yeah, him too. I wonder what kind of value he carries around the league?

[TheHurl]

Yeah, him too. I wonder what kind of value he carries around the league?

 

and are the Jays selling based on his ERA?

[jays_fever]

The only assets they have that would make sense to sell are Bautista, Edwin, and Cecil. Could definitely get a haul, but at this point there's probably no franchise-altering top-10 prospect types on the table.

 

Not top 10, but the Cubs can throw 3 really good prospects at us for Bautista without Russel involved

[TheHurl]

Not top 10, but the Cubs can throw 3 really good prospects at us for Bautista without Russel involved

 

Soler and Pierce Johnson

[BigCecil]

It pretty much was by accident. They didn't think Edwin was about to explode, otherwise they wouldn't have DFA'd him only to have the A's grab him. Luckily the A's were just as stupid and let him go again so we could grab him again.

 

AA had no idea that Edwin was going to go full beast mode.

 

Same with Joey B. The Jays did not see that happening. They lucked out on that one too.

 

Of course they didn't know what they would both become...that's not my point.

 

My point was they took a risk in signing long term undermarket deals after one great season. That was not by accident. Props due.

[xposbrad]

Soler and Pierce Johnson

 

EE/JB and throw in Edwards to that package.

 

Edwards + Johnson would be 2 amazing mlb ready pitchers for this club next year. Ya ya, we have a lot of pitching depth (some might say, but no one has proven anything), but these 2 guys look like top end starters.