.500 team?

[Smokey]

Number 1 starter (Stroman)

Starting left fielder (Saunders)

Starting second baseman (Ramon Santiago)

Starting short stop (Reyes)

Starting first baseman (Smoak) effectively nullified by Bautista injury.

Back up catcher (Navarro)

Starting center fielder (Pompay) poor performance.

Number 5 starter (Norris) poor performance

 

Take that away from any team and see how many are still playing .500 ball. The Dodgers are the only ones that MIGHT have a chance and their payroll is almost double the Jays.

 

Bitching about a lack of depth is retarded. This is one of the deepest teams in the league.

 

Take what away? Injuries to guys like Reyes and Saunders (who are always injured) and poor performances from unproven rookies who the team shouldn't have relied on in the first place? And you're actually using that to prove how depth isn't a problem?? Lol.. clown post bro.

[NorthOf49]

Navarro,Santiago and Carrera are all closer to league average than replacement level. Not bad depth at all. People around here seem to forget that teams are limited to a 40 and 25 man roster. Not to mention that AA operates in the toughest environment in the MLB, if not pro sports.

A league average player produces about two wins over a full season. A reasonable expection for Santiago or Carrera had them much closer to zero wins per full season than two.

 

The point is that if your season is crushed by a couple injury-prone players getting hurt and the back of your roster being bad, you didn't have great depth to begin with. The season isn't over by any stretch, but the Blue Jays were always going to be one of the shallowest teams in baseball.

[BigCecil]

Navarro,Santiago and Carrera are all closer to league average than replacement level. Not bad depth at all. People around here seem to forget that teams are limited to a 40 and 25 man roster. Not to mention that AA operates in the toughest environment in the MLB, if not pro sports.

 

um...ok...is this Wilner?

[Smokey]

Navarro,Santiago and Carrera are all closer to league average than replacement level. Not bad depth at all. People around here seem to forget that teams are limited to a 40 and 25 man roster. Not to mention that AA operates in the toughest environment in the MLB, if not pro sports.

 

http://replygif.net/i/1485.gif

[NorthOf49]

Navarro- 2 fwar last season

Carrera- hasn't ever been anything but a bench player in the MLB but already has .5 fWAR this season.

Santiago- In the closest season he's ever had to being a full time player put up 2.0 fWAR.

You've cherrypicked three instances in which these players have been okay over their career. We're talking about their expected production going forward. Do you really think Carrera and Santiago are better than 1 WAR/season players right now? Navarro I can see if framing isn't considered.

 

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with Carrera and Santiago. They're just not exceptional depth and you haven't addressed the pitching.

[L54]

WAR can be deducted as well. Just because X player has earned it to date doesn't mean they can't drop below that number.

 

We cannot realistically expect Ezequiel Carrera to be a 10 WAR player / 600 AB's (a full season). He has a BABIP of .500 which is impossible to sustain at the ML level. Coupled with the fact he barely walks and is striking out above league average rates, it's easy to see why he will regress.

 

Although not perfect, Navarro loses a lot of his WAR value from framing, which is not incorporated into the WAR number. He's basically a league average bat on the bench, with very little positional value. He's basically a $5M pinch hitter.

 

Santiago was worth 2 WAR five years ago. It's safe to say his best days are behind him.

[L54]

North beat me. He's on top of it today.

[TwistedLogic]

The season is about to go off the rails anyway. Houston will sweep us easily and we will never get back over .500 this season.

Wanna bet? I say jays at the very least go 2-2.

 

Loser doesn't login for a week

You got yourself a bet.

 

So if the Jays win even a single game in the series, we get a week without Jonn, and if the Jays don't at least split, we get a week without RealAcupuncturist?

 

I don't mean to look a gift horse in the mouth, but can we make it even more interesting (for the rest of us) and establish that if the Jays go 1-3 in the series, you both technically lose, and you both don't log in for a week?

[TwistedLogic]

In any season Santiago has had a babip of .300 or over he has been league average.

 

So whenever he's had a league average BABIP, he's been league average?

http://i.imgur.com/ENjMdkK.png

[BTS]

Navarro,Santiago and Carrera are all closer to league average than replacement level. Not bad depth at all. People around here seem to forget that teams are limited to a 40 and 25 man roster. Not to mention that AA operates in the toughest environment in the MLB, if not pro sports.

 

http://media.giphy.com/media/Ne7aenG4oM1Py/giphy.gif

[L54]

In any season Santiago has had a babip of .300 or over he has been league average.

Carrera has never been given a chance as a full time player but he's looking pretty good so far.

IIRC Navarro's framing stats weren't nearly as bad as they were last year. Umps bias against blue jays pitchers? Lets see what Martins framing numbers look like this year.

 

Sanchez,Hendricks,Norris and Estrada fighting for one spot in the rotation this spring suggests decent depth in the rotation. Giving away guys like West and Guillemet suggests decent depth in the pen.

 

How were Norris and Sanchez fighting for one spot when both were in the rotation?

 

The pen depth was decent. The pen hasn't been that bad. Giving away West and Guilmet speaks more to the FO not knowing what they had, as opposed to assembling good depth.

 

It's funny. The Jays seemingly fluked out putting together depth in the BP, only to tear it down themselves.

[TwistedLogic]

There's more than one way of looking at that though. Do you actually need to beat the first place team to win the division? You only need to outpace the second place team right?

 

So last year the Yanks were second with 84 wins, the O's only needed 85 to win the division.

 

Except a team other than the Jays had 96 wins last year, and teams other than the Jays have had 90+ wins every year since 2000.

 

If the Jays wanted to win the division last year, they didn't need to outplace the Yankees at 85 wins, they needed outplace the Orioles with 97.

[GD]

Navarro- 2.0 fWAR last season

Carrera- hasn't ever been anything but a bench player in the MLB,but already has .5 fWAR this season.

Santiago- In the closest season he's ever had to being a full time player put up 2.0 fWAR.

 

Navarro fWAR + framing effects - like 0

 

This actually does feel like it's Wilner.

[BTS]

How were Norris and Sanchez fighting for one spot when both were in the rotation?

 

The pen depth was decent. The pen hasn't been that bad. Giving away West and Guilmet speaks more to the FO not knowing what they had, as opposed to assembling good depth.

 

It's funny. The Jays seemingly fluked out putting together depth in the BP, only to tear it down themselves.

 

So telling that the teams to jump on West and Guilmet were LAD and TB.

[L54]

So telling that the teams to jump on West and Guilmet were LAD and TB.

 

It's actually hilarious. Thankfully we got Albers some innings with his favorite team growing up.

[L54]

The injury to Stroman opened up a spot. You still have to work within a 40 and 25 man roster.

 

Which AA has already butchered this season.

 

I'm obviously not changing your mind. Good on AA for stockpiling league average players in AAA.

[NorthOf49]

The injury to Stroman opened up a spot. You still have to work within a 40 and 25 man roster.

 

I think AA knows what he has. Could have been handshake deals in place to release them if they weren't in the majors by a certain date, who knows.

Guilmet and West were claimed off waivers, there was no opportunity for handshake deals to be made. The Blue Jays full controlled them. While I've liked AA's decision-making on the big things recently, we've flushed away plenty of productive pitchers in recent seasons.

 

Also, they could have just not added Andrew Albers and Scott Copeland to the 40-man in the first place. Problem solved.

[Atothe]

Copeland was pitching better than either of West or Guilmet. Albers is a lefty,which there are far fewer options in this system.

 

The handshake deals would have been made out of common courtesy to not hold them back from making the majors on other teams if the Jay's couldn't find a spot for them.

 

You are wrong on this. You're speculating. Albers is a failed pitcher. Copeland is not even a marginal pitcher, he's organizational filler. AA's roster management is deplorable

[Spanky99]

How were Norris and Sanchez fighting for one spot when both were in the rotation?

 

The pen depth was decent. The pen hasn't been that bad. Giving away West and Guilmet speaks more to the FO not knowing what they had, as opposed to assembling good depth.

 

It's funny. The Jays seemingly fluked out putting together depth in the BP, only to tear it down themselves.

 

This was/is extremely frustrating. All to call up Copeland and Albers for a day...*sighs*

[NorthOf49]

Copeland was pitching better than either of West or Guilmet. Albers is a lefty,which there are far fewer options in this system.

 

The handshake deals would have been made out of common courtesy to not hold them back from making the majors on other teams if the Jay's couldn't find a spot for them.

Copeland was not pitching better than West or Guilmet. They used Albers a single mop-up situation so him being left-handed is irrelevant.

 

The Collective Bargaining Agreement is binding and prevents useful players from being suppressed in the minors for extended periods of time. There is no reason nor expectation for clubs and players to go beyond it with such handshake agreements.

[TwistedLogic]

Win win for this board. One less moron either way.

 

This comment was made in this very thread.

[Spanky99]

Copeland was pitching better than either of West or Guilmet. Albers is a lefty,which there are far fewer options in this system.

 

The handshake deals would have been made out of common courtesy to not hold them back from making the majors on other teams if the Jay's couldn't find a spot for them.

 

Holy f***...just stop. AA tripped on his face again, in regards to handling the 40 man. Guilmet and West should've started the season on the 25 man, nevermind starting Osuna and Castro's clock, that was f***ing mind numbing?!

[Spanky99]

This comment was made in this very thread.

 

lol

[Spanky99]

I'm not wrong and what's deplorable is all you dipshits getting worked up about losing org filler like Guilmet and West.

 

Oh my...

[GD]

I'm not wrong and what's deplorable is all you dipshits getting worked up about losing org filler like Guilmet and West.

 

Calm down Wilner, another outburst like that and Cito will be having a word with you.

[Spanky99]

The jobs were up for grabs AA went with the guys that won. You can't say either Guilmet or West outpitched anyone that made the 25 man this spring.

 

They both pitched less than 3 innings in ST? Adding Osuna and Castro to the 25 man, caused all these horseshit moves, which lost us West and Guilmet? Get a clue, brah!!

[Spanky99]

You get a clue you dumn prick. Castro and Osuna were the 2 best pitchers in the org this spring. Osuna has been this teams best pitcher this season. Who gives a f*** about West or Guilmet, they're a dime a dozen.

 

lol...as the turnstile spins, I actually thought AA was doing something right. Yeah, you need a clue, meat.

[Spanky99]

You get a clue you dumn prick. Castro and Osuna were the 2 best pitchers in the org this spring. Osuna has been this teams best pitcher this season. Who gives a f*** about West or Guilmet, they're a dime a dozen.

 

Also, you think adding Osuna and Castro to the 40 man was smart, nevermind starting in the minors?

[Atothe]

You get a clue you dumn prick. Castro and Osuna were the 2 best pitchers in the org this spring. Osuna has been this teams best pitcher this season. Who gives a f*** about West or Guilmet, they're a dime a dozen.

 

This guy said that the board was better off without both realaccountant and Jonn. What about yourself?

[Spanky99]

This guy said that the board was better off without both realaccountant and Jonn. What about yourself?

 

I always thought this dude and RealAccountant were the same, obviously different, but same pile.