Around Baseball 2015

[BlueBirdBro]

Stefan C Stevenson Fort Worth Star-Telegram TEX Keuchel Price Gray Estrada Sale

[burlingtonbandit]

Yes you can. The award is for how you pitch, the gold glove is for how you field. Should we give Pillar the Silver Slugger over Trout because he's a great fielder?

 

One thing we can consider is the White Sox -39 DRS.

 

Well a pitcher does both at the same time compared to a position player hitting and fielding. Pitching is about run prevention and if award voters base their votes on that it should be included.

[John_Havok]

Jesus christ... only 3 first place votes for Kershaw when he puts up over 300 Ks

[Travis_Snider]

Arrieta grabs NL CY

[Travis_Snider]

child is not impressed.

[Grant77]

Looking at his carrer numbers would be like looking at Bautista's career numbers two years into him breaking out.

 

 

 

I worded that poorly, but you'd expect him to beat his xFIP because he's elite defensively and is the best contact manager in the league.

 

Being elite defensively has absolutely nothing to do with being a good pitcher. It's a completely separate skill that is accounted for in another award.

 

If you want to consider Keuchel for MVP then by all means include his defense, but that's not what the Cy Young Award is for.

[Grant77]

You just said holding runners has nothing to do with pitching...

 

f*** right off, that's not what I said at all. Playing your position and holding runners aren't the same thing.

[BTS]

So we should rely on single-season ERA-xFIP differences as significant true-talent features? The things that go into real such talents (BABIP, HR/FB, etc.) take a long time to stabilize. Bautista is different since hitter batted ball tendencies take much less time to stabilize.

 

$50 bet on Keuchel's ERA being less than his xFIP next year? If not, stfu.

[BTS]

Playing your position and holding runners aren't the same thing.

 

You dismissed DRS as being outside the realm of pitching.

[deepz]

I came here looking for Arrieta winning the Cy thoughts.

[BTS]

lol you're not even going to address the point? I'm not betting on baseball.

 

I'm not addressing the point because you're trolling me in like three different ways.

[Laika]

It's a weird compromise that was expected. Kershaw is the best pitcher, Greinke had the best RA9 season. Voters were split on which issue to prioritize, so they gave it to the guy who was #2 in both.

 

It's actually very similar to the AL vote! Price is Greinke, Sale is Kershaw.

[Grant77]

You dismissed DRS as being outside the realm of pitching.

 

If you're just going to make up s*** then I'm not going to bother. You know you're wrong.

[BTS]

Keuchel had 13 DRS. Can't overlook how valuable that is.

 

Yes you can. The award is for how you pitch, the gold glove is for how you field. Should we give Pillar the Silver Slugger over Trout because he's a great fielder?

 

One thing we can consider is the White Sox -39 DRS.

 

You dismissed DRS as being outside the realm of pitching.

 

If you're just going to make up s*** then I'm not going to bother. You know you're wrong.

 

...

[Grant77]

It's actually very similar to the AL vote! Price is Greinke, Sale is Kershaw.

 

Except Price also had better DIPS than Keuchel. I was really hoping Sale would win, just to get over the pitcher wins hurdle once and for all.

[thatoneguy]

I came here looking for Arrieta winning the Cy thoughts.

 

Can't disagree with it based on how insane his second half was, both statistically and anecdotally. Kershaw and Greinke were both stellar, particularly the former with his highest fWAR season yet and the 300+ Ks.

[Grant77]

Scenario:

 

Screaming liner up the middle, pitcher makes leaping catch.

 

Great pitching?

 

or

 

Poor pitching and great fielding?

[Grant77]

Great hitting and great fielding.

 

Change the scenario to add something that you would define as a bad pitch, maybe like a hanging slider.

[Cyborg]

I don't think it's "Best Pitcher at Pitching". Defence is a part of being a pitcher.

[BTS]

I don't think it's "Best Pitcher at Pitching". Defence is a part of being a pitcher.

 

I think most people would include everything a pitcher can do to contribute to run prevention in their evaluation.

[Laika]

Defense and pitching aren't as severable as hitting and defense.

 

Pitching IS defense!

[Atothe]

Kershaw only had 3 first place votes to Arrieta's 17. That's voter fatigue right there. Damn shame that the best pitcher since Randy Johnson's prime is boring now

[RealAccountant]

^ He oughta come prove himself ALEast before you make comparisons Randy Johnson. Sorry you can't pitch your career in the NL West and be an all time great

[King]

http://slaterscoops.com/news/2015/11/18/the-miami-marlins-clubhouse-was-a-circus-literally

[baseballsss]

http://slaterscoops.com/news/2015/11/18/the-miami-marlins-clubhouse-was-a-circus-literally

 

Man if we still had AA he woulda talked his way into Fernadez and Freeman by now.

[baubau]

Man if we still had AA he woulda talked his way into Fernadez and Freeman by now.

 

Pretty baseless statement.

[Grant77]

Defense and pitching aren't as severable as hitting and defense.

 

Pitching IS defense!

 

No, pitching is what happens before the ball reaches the plate. Defense is what happens after the ball reaches the plate. It's not difficult to understand.

 

To me, including defense in a pitching award is like when they give out gold gloves based on how good of a hitter they are (ie. Adam Jones). They are two different things with two different awards. Why even bother having a pitcher gold glove if they are the same thing?

 

The whole way they do awards is stupid, but it's difficult to understand why people can't agree on this simple concept. The Cy Young Award is for the best pitcher, the Hank Aaron award is for the best hitter, the Platinum Glove is for the best fielder, and the MVP is for the best overall player (a combination of pitching, hitting, and fielding). It's nice and tidy, one award for each aspect and a combined award. There is no need to combine pitching and fielding into one award.

[burlingtonbandit]

Man if we still had AA he woulda talked his way into Fernadez and Freeman by now.

 

not with how bad a teammate Fernandez is

[TheHurl]

If you want to consider Keuchel for MVP then by all means include his defense, but that's not what the Cy Young Award is for.

 

Cameron included hitting in his NL Cy Young decision (which led to him to Bumgarner over Cole) .

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/explaining-my-nl-cy-young-ballot/#more-204248

 

In the end, I decided that this award was position-specific, not skill-specific, and that the intent was to honor the best pitcher of the year, not the guy who pitched the best. It might seem like semantics, but a pitcher’s job is more than just throwing the ball to the plate. Everyone agrees that a pitcher’s defensive skills are also part of his performance, since it contributes directly to preventing the opponents from scoring, so at the very minimum, we’re really evaluating a pitcher’s pitching and fielding.

 

But in the National League, pitchers also have to hit; it’s part of their job. It’s not a big part of the job, and most of them aren’t very good at it, but it is something they are required to do when they take the mound, and I chose to include offensive production as a minor variable in my decision making. Relative to the other candidates for the five spots on my ballot, Cole performed poorly at the plate, and gave his team fewer chances to win while he was on the mound because of it.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I think most people would include everything a pitcher can do to contribute to run prevention in their evaluation.

 

Very true.

 

Say a pitcher has a the best & fastest pickoff move ever, where no one can steal on him and any runner that gets on base would have to physically stand on the base otherwise he'd be picked off. That non-pitch skill (a pickoff) would factor in to how good the pitcher is. But by Grant's breakdown it wouldn't, because the pitcher is not in the act of delivering the ball to the plate.