Blue Jays have begun contract talks with Melky Cabrera.

[Gorlak]

If one thing is taxed and the other is subsidized with all other things equal, You will get more bang for your buck with the latter. Hitting and pitcher are equal, but pretending a park has no effect on the efficiency of either is silly. The amount of wins a team gets is decided by a combination of runs scored, runs allowed, and sequencing. Since sequencing can't be controlled, when building a roster you need to be cognizant of what little efficiencies you can exploit to improve in the other two.

[Gorlak]

There is no efficiency by valuing hitters more than pitchers in a hitters park. You can however, tailor your players to your park (all RHB or FB pitchers etc.)

 

You do tailor to the player, But trying to have the Jays in the bottom 5 in runs allowed would be way more difficult than having the Jays in top 5 in runs scored.

[Gorlak]

Also I would say there is value in not having to pay for the extra production gained from the park effects.

[Chappy]

Also I would say there is value in not having to pay for the extra production gained from the park effects.

 

The opposing team gains from the park effects as well.

[Gorlak]

Yes, but over the course of the season some marginal difference could exist. I feel like this is math.

[glory]

He is our Jarrod Dyson

 

I think that's Gose's upside, which isn't too bad when you consider Dyson was a 3 win player this season as the 4th OF. The main difference is that Dyson is a passable offensive player, while Gose is pretty bad. If he is strictly platooned and starts running again, combined with his defense, Gose could be a decent CF option. I think his best role is probably 4th OF long-term, and when Pompey is ready to take over CF full-time, then maybe that will be the alignment.

[Gorlak]

I have no problem with Gose in centre as long as Pillar isn't in left and Goins isn't at 2nd.

[glory]

I have no problem with Gose in centre as long as Pillar isn't in left and Goins isn't at 2nd.

 

I have no issues with Pompey in LF and Gose/Pillar platooning in CF (Pillar in LF and Pompey in CF against lefties) as long as the saved money is spent on improvements. I'm talking Headley at 3B calibre upgrades. If the Royals making and possibly winning the World Series smartens AA up on the importance of defense, then we should all thank Dayton Moore. I've never seen a GM disregard defense as much as AA/Gibby have the last two years (Bonehead at 2B, Francisco at 3B, Bautista in CF, Edwin in LF, Reyes at short, Sierra as the 4th OF, Arencibia/Navarro/Thole at catcher, etc).

[Gorlak]

Until Pompey proves himself I wouldn't be comfortable having him as the left fielder. If the Jays get a left fielder they can use Gose until Pompey is ready. Can't burn too many spots in the lineup. Also Bautista in centre was brutal.

[Dick_Pole]

You do tailor to the player, But trying to have the Jays in the bottom 5 in runs allowed would be way more difficult than having the Jays in top 5 in runs scored.

 

I think you missed watching the team in 2008.

[Dick_Pole]

A win is a win is a win.

 

Let's go for an extreme example.

 

A team scores 162 runs and gave up zero won all 162 of their games 1-0.

 

A team that scores 1162 runs and gives up 1000...who knows what they did that year. They probably won 100 games but they're still 62 back of that team that didn't give up a run all year.

 

With all other things being equal, you take the good pitching team over the good hitting team because the same run differential is worth more percentage wise. I think that's what people are trying to get at when they say pitching is worth more than hitting.

[Jimcanuck]

Let's go for an extreme example.

 

A team scores 162 runs and gave up zero won all 162 of their games 1-0.

 

A team that scores 1162 runs and gives up 1000...who knows what they did that year. They probably won 100 games but they're still 62 back of that team that didn't give up a run all year.

 

With all other things being equal, you take the good pitching team over the good hitting team because the same run differential is worth more percentage wise. I think that's what people are trying to get at when they say pitching is worth more than hitting.

 

Exactly, and I've seen a study done in 2008 or thereabouts showing that allowing 50 less runs with the same run differential = 0.5 WINS.... something like that.

 

The other issue is pitching is more volatile, fragile than position players and hence a team with more pitching is more valuable overall. Pitching should return more in trade.

[Angrioter]

People seem to think that because Pompey's a switch hitter he can automatically hit both righties and lefties. Fact is he's completely useless against lefties.

 

 

Last two years in the minors...

 

Vs. LHP .292/.372/.465 (288 PAs, 20.5% K's)

vs RHP .287/.375/.421 (719 PAs, 17.8% Ks)

 

A sexy "callate"

http://img.pandawhale.com/108965-Jennifer-Lawrence-shut-up-gif-pm9r.gif

[Angrioter]

Agreed. Gose was at 1.3 last season in half a season's worth of AB's, and he was playing all over the outfield most of the time instead of strictly CF. If they utilize his base stealing ability a bit more, and he remains an elite upside defensive player, then I can easily see him and Pillar being a net positive out there.

 

After fangraphs defensive adjustment (fWAR), that 1.3 will be 0.8

[RealAccountant]

I have no problem with Gose in centre as long as Pillar isn't in left and Goins isn't at 2nd.

 

Right now all three are pencilled in. Given this team's history of signing free agent, This is the likely lineup opening day

 

C - Navarro

1B - EE

2B - Goins

SS - Reyes

3B - Lawrie

RF - Bautista

CF - Gose

LF - Pillar

DH - Lind

 

Reyes

Lawrie

Bautista

Lind

Encarnacion

Navarro

Pillar

Goins

Gose

[Horses Fart]

A sexy "callate"

http://img.pandawhale.com/108965-Jennifer-Lawrence-shut-up-gif-pm9r.gif

 

Loved that flick! Amy Adams was so f***in hot in that. YummY

[Horses Fart]

Right now all three are pencilled in. Given this team's history of signing free agent, This is the likely lineup opening day

 

C - Navarro

1B - EE

2B - Goins

SS - Reyes

3B - Lawrie

RF - Bautista

CF - Gose

LF - Pillar

DH - Lind

 

Reyes

Lawrie

Bautista

Lind

Encarnacion

Navarro

Pillar

Goins

Gose

 

Why would anybody pay more to go see that s***....rather watch paint dry!

[ElNik2013]

The Jays should start emulating the Rays by signing Heath Bell and Grant Balfour to shore up their bullpen.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Let's go for an extreme example.

 

A team scores 162 runs and gave up zero won all 162 of their games 1-0.

 

A team that scores 1162 runs and gives up 1000...who knows what they did that year. They probably won 100 games but they're still 62 back of that team that didn't give up a run all year.

 

With all other things being equal, you take the good pitching team over the good hitting team because the same run differential is worth more percentage wise. I think that's what people are trying to get at when they say pitching is worth more than hitting.

 

Agree. But you're speaking to the guy who only speaks in terms of fangraphs, so don't bother.

[Dick_Pole]

Right now all three are pencilled in. Given this team's history of signing free agent, This is the likely lineup opening day

 

C - Navarro

1B - EE

2B - Goins

SS - Reyes

3B - Lawrie

RF - Bautista

CF - Gose

LF - Pillar

DH - Lind

 

Reyes

Lawrie

Bautista

Lind

Encarnacion

Navarro

Pillar

Goins

Gose

 

That reminds me of NL ball in the 1980's where everyone in the 7-8-9 spots were automatic outs.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Again just jeteson Lind and make Melky a full time DH backup left field as well!

 

I see it like this 7 mill for a part time batter that needs a platoon partner or 16-18 mil for Melky money well spent!

 

Sign denaforia? And u gain a useful bench bat and outfield backup as well!

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Not when you have to play Lind and a good platoon bat just as much and waste to roster spots! Probably cost just as much!

Give or take a mill or Two!

[Dick_Pole]

Agree. But you're speaking to the guy who only speaks in terms of fangraphs, so don't bother.

 

Well...every baseball fan has a right to enjoy the game as how they see fit. JFAS hasn't been disrespectful to me even as I was one of the group who thoroughly disagreed with the Kratz $70M value thing, so I can't say anything bad about him. Refreshing compared to some people on this board who make a mountain out of a molehill once a disagreement starts.

[GD]

Well...every baseball fan has a right to enjoy the game as how they see fit. JFAS hasn't been disrespectful to me even as I was one of the group who thoroughly disagreed with the Kratz $70M value thing, so I can't say anything bad about him. Refreshing compared to some people on this board who make a mountain out of a molehill once a disagreement starts.

 

I don't think a disrespectful method has been written into his cyborg programming. He's sworn, like, once in the history of the board.

[Chappy]

I don't think a disrespectful method has been written into his cyborg programming. He's sworn, like, once in the history of the board.

 

He must have has a virus that day.

[burlingtonbandit]

This may shock a lot of you:

Steamer 600 WAR (WAR/600 PA)

Melky Cabrera: 1.6

Kevin Pillar: 1.7

Anthony Gose: 1.6

 

DEFENSE

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&type=steamer600&team=14&players=0&sort=22,d

 

I have a hard time believing Pillar's defence is anywhere close to Gose's. As much as the numbers say Pillar could give you decent value, the Blue Jays should not go into 2015 with him in a starter's role.

[burlingtonbandit]

I'm an advocate for letting Melky go and taking the pick and running with a Pillar/Gose Platoon. Probably easily 2.0 WAR. Sign Chris Young for LF if Pompey is not deemed ready yet.

 

Im fine with that too as long there is a good upgrade at 2nd/3rd. I really want Headley.

[KingKat]

I'm an advocate for letting Melky go and taking the pick and running with a Pillar/Gose Platoon. Probably easily 2.0 WAR. Sign Chris Young for LF if Pompey is not deemed ready yet.

 

Having the luxury to use the option on Pompey or Pillar would be really nice so I'd be all for a Chris Young signing, otherwise the team is likely to run into some of the same depth issues they had at 2B this year.