Beeston on the Fan - You know Payroll is going higher in 2015

[goeb]

Because it shows a lack of character. Because it shows a lack of maturity. Because it shows a lack of class.

 

 

 

I personally don't care about "character" in that situation. I care about winning ball games, and their outcry showed me that they genuinely cared improving the roster in order to contend for the playoffs.

 

These are baseball players, not C-Suite employees. As fans, I don't see how their cathartic relief effects us, we just want to see the team contend at the end of the day.

[LongTimeReader]

Sometimes when you feel change is needed you have to speak-up or else things will just continue [unchanged]. There are examples of this in every facet of society. Even if that "change" may not happen right away.

[GeorgiaPeach]

That's what it showed you? Even though they folded thereafter? You know what else would have showed me they cared? If, when asked the question about the moves, or lack of moves, they said that it's not their business ... they have a job to do, and that's to give the city a playoff team, and they're going to go out and do everything in their power to bring them one, with the horses they have, because they believe they can get it done.

 

They could've said that. But then why should the fans/public even listen to what the FO or players say anymore? The team was clearly not a bona fide playoff team when they were scraping by at their best as the 2nd WC team. Any fluctuations from fielding a full healthy team (unrealistic) and the team wasn't making the playoffs.

 

And they didn't.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I'm pretty sure AA and Beeston have offices ... with doors.

 

You're right, and if Bautista and Janssen wanna play for a winner they should be either walking in those doors asking for trades, or going to the media.

 

There's no chance the Jays make the playoffs going forward operating how they have the past 2 years.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Why do you listen to the FO or players in the first place?

 

I haven't listened to the FO since the Dickey trade. It's a mirage they've tried to spin.

 

And the team wasn't making the playoffs with "help," either.

 

Agreed. The team was a lost cause from before the season started.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Sometimes when you feel change is needed you have to speak-up or else things will just continue [unchanged]. There are examples of this in every facet of society. Even if that "change" may not happen right away.

 

Apparently it should be behind closed doors to not expose the failures for what they are. Respect Management/your employer.....hahahahahaha

 

Rogers has an image to uphold and the employees should all be saying "yes" or be classy as to not tarnish the company name......f*** off.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Or the years before that (with apologies to the people dumb enough to think AA was doing a good job prior to the last 2 years).

 

He wasn't? How so?

 

So why are you supporting Bautista for being a dumb f*** and giving the incorrect message (in the incorrect way)?

 

Because I support freedom of speech, even if it isn't classy or even if it offends the masses.

[LongTimeReader]

I'm pretty sure AA and Beeston have offices ... with doors.

 

You seemed to have completely missed my point.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I didn't ask only about the FO .. I asked about the players, as well.

 

I don't watch enough post game interviews to know the opinions of players. But I am for freedom of speech if the media asks it.

 

So, then, Bautista should have shut his stupid mouth before crying about something completely without meaning? Glad we agree.

 

Nope. I'm still glad he spoke up.

[GeorgiaPeach]

For the infinite reasons already listed infinite times.

 

Must've missed those. Sadly, you weren't around then to confirm or validate your opinion like everyone else on here could. And really how do you expect a mid-market organization to compete if they don't operate efficiently by moving expensive has-beens that you've shown yourself to love?

 

"Freedom of speech" is a concept involving governmental intervention (or the lack thereof0, sparky. Not applicable here.

 

So then Bautista and Janssen clearly not under any Government intervention were free to speak their minds.

 

I'm baffled why you take ownership of others feelings of expression (Bautista & Janssen) or action (me at work). You have no connection to any of us, yet get upset. If you're a Manager or CEO or whatever you claim to be, and are upset by employees that underperform or rebel, then I understand. If it's something other than that worry about yourself.

[jaysfan2014]

I actually felt the Jays should've still explored trades and been sellers, kinda like how the Red Sox sold and are gonna come out looking even better next year. The Rays moving Price. IMO the Jays should always be sellers, the Rays model is best suited for this mid-market franchise to operate under if it wants to succeed.

 

Red Sox only were better in 2013 because of health from David Ortiz and Jacoby Ellsbury, plus career years from Napoli/Victorino/Drew. Even when Betts and Castillo were added, they're still likely a sub .500 team unless major additions are made. And there's no guarantee they'll be able to add pitching, considering 29 other teams are after the same players. And the Rays moved Price because ownership is planning to slash payroll heavily next year due to terrible attendance and no hope of a new stadium. And BTW, the Rays model is unsustainable, especially considering the fact one bad season will fire up Montreal relocation rumours, which it already has. The Rays attendance was the lowest since '07 (1.446M), when they had a $24M payroll. Adding revenue sharing, they're still going to have to cut more in the offseason, especially considering renewals for season tickets will be way down. As it stands, the Rays payroll (including options and arb) is estimated at $82M before benefits. Expect more payroll cutting moves after the World Series, which include possibly trading Joyce, Zobrist, Loney and possibly even Longoria, as this franchise is in a similar mess as the '95 Expos.

 

And the Jays need to bring in big names.. this is a big to mid-sized market! We need stars to contend here. This isn't Oakland or Tampa Bay.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Again, it's not "freedom of speech." Stop using the term ... you don't understand it.

 

So what's the reason Bautista or Janssen shouldn't have spoken out?

 

Keeping things classy or in-house is a soft excuse to not speak out.

 

 

 

So, you're glad he spewed lies, and encouraged the FO to do something you acknowledge was completely wasteful, because somehow being wasteful is good and help the organization? And did it in a childish manner?

 

The only people I've said spew lies are Alex and Beeston. Bautista and Janssen's comments were opinions.

 

Who's to say that Bautista wouldn't have wanted Smyly ++ instead of David Price? Who's to say that Janssen didn't want Allen Craig and Joe Kelly for Lackey? Both deals would've significantly helped the Jays going forward if similar deals were made.

 

It wasn't childish at all. The media obviously asked both players their opinions and they gave them.

[jaysfan2014]

So what's the reason Bautista or Janssen shouldn't have spoken out?

 

Keeping things classy or in-house is a soft excuse to not speak out.

 

 

 

 

 

The only people I've said spew lies are Alex and Beeston. Bautista and Janssen's comments were opinions.

 

Who's to say that Bautista wouldn't have wanted Smyly ++ instead of David Price? Who's to say that Janssen didn't want Allen Craig and Joe Kelly for Lackey? Both deals would've significantly helped the Jays going forward if similar deals were made.

 

It wasn't childish at all. The media obviously asked both players their opinions and they gave them.

 

Smyly maybe, Craig and Kelly no. That Craig part of the Lackey deal is going to be a drag on Boston.. he has shown no signs of returning to previous form. And Kelly's still a wild card.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Red Sox only were better in 2013 because of health from David Ortiz and Jacoby Ellsbury, plus career years from Napoli/Victorino/Drew. Even when Betts and Castillo were added, they're still likely a sub .500 team unless major additions are made. And there's no guarantee they'll be able to add pitching, considering 29 other teams are after the same players. And the Rays moved Price because ownership is planning to slash payroll heavily next year due to terrible attendance and no hope of a new stadium. And BTW, the Rays model is unsustainable, especially considering the fact one bad season will fire up Montreal relocation rumours, which it already has. The Rays attendance was the lowest since '07 (1.446M), when they had a $24M payroll. Adding revenue sharing, they're still going to have to cut more in the offseason, especially considering renewals for season tickets will be way down. As it stands, the Rays payroll (including options and arb) is estimated at $82M before benefits. Expect more payroll cutting moves after the World Series, which include possibly trading Joyce, Zobrist, Loney and possibly even Longoria, as this franchise is in a similar mess as the '95 Expos.

 

The Jays cannot continue to operate as they have by moving excessive amounts of cheap talent for over-priced vets.

 

And the Jays need to bring in big names.. this is a big to mid-sized market! We need stars to contend here. This isn't Oakland or Tampa Bay.

 

In order for the Jays to maintain a large casual following I agree, they need to bring in big names. Geographically and numerically The City and Country for the Jays are a big market. I don't believe ownership will ever pump enough payroll into the team for them to be considered a legitimate big market payroll. But the fanbase is decades away from being a big market baseball fanbase, which IMO prevents the Blue Jays from being a big market team.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Smyly maybe, Craig and Kelly no. That Craig part of the Lackey deal is going to be a drag on Boston.. he has shown no signs of returning to previous form. And Kelly's still a wild card.

 

I'd easily take a chance on Craig returning to form. You know kinda how everyone wrote off Lackey after he was shellacked and lost all his velocity and stuff in 2011? Adam Dunn was another who had a historically bad season and was said to be done on this forum. Yet came back. As for Kelly, at worst can be a solid pen piece for years to come for a 36 year old John Lackey.

 

Sorry not a fan of old players.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I'll leave it to you to opine on how to keep it soft ... But in the adult world "act like an adult, be respectful, keep it in house" is a lot more valid than "I'm happy because it pissed people off."

 

Seeing as your the man trying to make the world a better place, I'm surprised you didn't attempt to contact Bautista or Janssen and set them straight. Let them know how things should be.

 

And this is why you stick to putting your fist up a felon's anus.

 

Sorry dude, no felonies in Canada.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Like I said, therapy. It may be involuntary, at this point.

 

Can you be the one to provide me with therapy? And when the session's done let me lick your index finger?

[GeorgiaPeach]

Disorders manifesting themselves, at least partially, through sadism are a product of nurture, rather than nature. Perhaps you could share with me all the problems you had growing up which may have caused this disorder ... Abuse is the most prominent trigger ... Later we'll get to your apparent desire to eat feces.

 

And there's no felonies in Canada.

[Boxcar]

I'm pretty sure AA and Beeston have offices ... with doors.

 

Your improper ellipses are driving me mad.

[LongTimeReader]

Your improper ellipses are driving me mad.

 

It's actually proper.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I appreciate your reluctance to speak about the issues which brought you here, but avoidance won't help the healing process. Please share the experiences in your childhood which led to your current predilection for watching others be pained?

 

Um, I liked to ride my bike. I liked playing table hockey. George Bell was my favourite Blue Jay. The Edmonton Oilers were my favourite hockey team.

 

If I think of anything else I'll let you know.

 

And there are no felonies in Canada.

[Boxcar]

It's actually proper.

 

Wow, so I'm wrong. I didn't realize that there are several correct ways to implement them.

 

My apologies, Moogy. We must remain ever vigilant, you know.

[Nox]

Even when Betts and Castillo were added, they're still likely a sub .500 team unless major additions are made. .

 

No.

[Boxcar]

Is ... it ... the ... ellipses ... or ... is ... it ... really ... something ... else ... which ... is ... troubling ... you?

 

I use ellipses to indicate conversational pauses. It's proper, even if abused a smidge.

 

No, I enjoy reading your posts. I was just trying to be a grammar Nazi and it backfired.

[LongTimeReader]

Is this like the perpetual staring contest?.... nobody wants to give in... ever...

[jaysfan2014]

I'd easily take a chance on Craig returning to form. You know kinda how everyone wrote off Lackey after he was shellacked and lost all his velocity and stuff in 2011? Adam Dunn was another who had a historically bad season and was said to be done on this forum. Yet came back. As for Kelly, at worst can be a solid pen piece for years to come for a 36 year old John Lackey.

 

Sorry not a fan of old players.

 

The problem is that Allen Craig suffered a Lisfranc injury and foot injuries late last season, and has not been the same player. There's no guarantee of a rebound.

[GeorgiaPeach]

The problem is that Allen Craig suffered a Lisfranc injury and foot injuries late last season, and has not been the same player. There's no guarantee of a rebound.

 

I agree there's no guarantee of a rebound.

 

But if I was to choose an asset between Kelly as say a RP the rest of his career or John Lackey in his later 30's starting and I'll take Kelly easily.

[Jimcanuck]

Not sure about SP though considering the depth.. but the rest I agree with.

 

Should not expect the 2014 the SP had will be repeated in 2015. More likely it will be worse.

 

jays do not have a contender calibre starting 5 and depth

[labadee]

and their outcry showed me that they genuinely cared improving the roster in order to contend for the playoffs.

 

sounds more like an excuse to fall back on if things went in the shitter

[jaysfan2014]

Should not expect the 2014 the SP had will be repeated in 2015. More likely it will be worse.

 

jays do not have a contender calibre starting 5 and depth

 

Buehrle, Dickey, Happ, Stroman, Hutchison, Sanchez, Norris? That's a fair amount of depth.