Why did the Orioles do so much better than us this year?

[G-Snarls]

Serious question. Almost everyone has understimated them for the past 2 years. And I never saw them (or anyone actualy) running away with the AL East division title this year, but they did.

 

So what was it?

 

Luck? I'm done blaming luck for the Orioles' success. I think it's evened out somewhat.

 

Health? No, they had as many serious injuries as we did. Wieters, Machado and more missed tons of time.

 

Starting pitching? Nope. Baltimore's rotation was mediocre, as expected. Ours was significantly better. We were better by FIP, xFIP, they were better by ERA.

 

Lineup? Nope. wRC+ identical. We scored more runs. Yes their lineup is very good, but ours is as good or slightly better despite some serious slumps this year

 

The manager? Meh. Some will say Schowalter has something that Gibby doesn't. Don't think I agree.

 

Bench/depth - probably, Pearce alone helped save them down the stretch

 

I think it mostly comes down to :

 

Defense - I think this is the main thing. Orioles seem to be much better defensive team. It can take a while to notice this but it sure pays dividends over 162 games. Jones and Markaikis steal hits on a regular basis. Rasmus, Bautista and Melky do not. Even with Machado barely playing, they just have very few poor defensive players, if any. We have several.

 

Bullpen - Ours was so good last year but crashed down to earth in 2014. Until Morrow and Sanchez stabilized it, it was a major weak spot and cost us many games.

[JFD]

this year it was their pitching. 7th in team ERA. mediocre my ass.. blue jays are near the bottom.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

We were the 7th worst defensive team in baseball according to Fangraphs and the Orioles were the 5th best.

 

Edwin/Lind/Melky/Bautista/Reyes were simply not good defensive players this year.

[BTS]

One thing the Orioles did an amazing job at was not wasting playing time on bad players. I posted in another thread that the Jays lost about 1600 PA to replacement-level play, which is more than 25% of the season. For the Orioles, this number was at about 200 PA.

[G-Snarls]

this year it was their pitching. 7th in team ERA. mediocre my ass.. blue jays are near the bottom.

 

You're looking at the wrong thing

 

I said their STARTERS were mediocre. Their STARTERS were 13th in ERA. Their STARTERS were 28th in xFIP

 

(As a team they were better because of the bullpen.)

[shortstop]

We'll disagree on the impact of Showalter only bc u can't look at the make up on the team in a vacuum - that roster, the types of players, how they play, what they stress....it's got Showalter written all over it - no doubt, though he has final call, Duquette won't make a move that impacts the major league team unless Showalter agrees

 

Ps Cruzs season helps

[RealAccountant]

3Ds

 

Depth

Defense

DAT bullpen

[MrMariusz]

Showalter has baseball IQ.

Gibbons just lets things happen. Subs in the wrong players. Leaves his starters out to dry. Etc...

[guylaroche5]

a good defensive catcher goes a long way to making a bad rotation look respectable

[MrMariusz]

That decision by Gibbons to PR Fransisco just sums him up as a manager.

We need someone with a little more vision, a little less je m'en fous.

[Jimcanuck]

Jays had 686 runs against.... O's 593

 

Team pitching peripherals very similar for both teams..... yet O's ERA more than 0.5 runs less.

 

If we disregard park factors and luck.... better defense worth 0.5 runs a game????

 

This is why.... f*** Melky and Rasmus, roll with Bautista in LF, Pompey CF, Gose RF, sign Scherzer, trade Hutch for a good SS, move Reyes to 2B.... team gets the ace it needs and team defense is massively improved (fingers crossed Lawrie can stay healthy for once)

[comeon sense]

1.I would trade managers in a second.Showalter is simply a better manager.

2.We lost our best defensive player early in the season,and for way more games compared to them and Machado.

3.Their overall team defense is better than ours,and hasn,t dipped significantly since Machado went down.

[GD]

Jays had 686 runs against.... O's 593

 

Team pitching peripherals very similar for both teams..... yet O's ERA more than 0.5 runs less.

 

If we disregard park factors and luck.... better defense worth 0.5 runs a game????

 

This is why.... f*** Melky and Rasmus, roll with Bautista in LF, Pompey CF, Gose RF, sign Scherzer, trade Hutch for a good SS, move Reyes to 2B.... team gets the ace it needs and team defense is massively improved (fingers crossed Lawrie can stay healthy for once)

 

lol

[Jimcanuck]

lol

 

or Shields, or Lester,or McCarthy.... someone reasonably good so that in 2016 the rotation is more than an almost 42 yr old Dickey and 4 kids

 

douchebag

[glory]

Defense and bullpen. The Orioles had defense, bullpen, and some good hitters. It was a good enough blend of everything to win.

 

Our GM doesn't seem to think value comes from anything other than offense.

[GD]

or Shields, or Lester,or McCarthy.... someone reasonably good so that in 2016 the rotation is more than an almost 42 yr old Dickey and 4 kids

 

douchebag

 

Please don't hurt my feelings, Jim. I'm so fragile.

 

also still not happening lol

[Jimcanuck]

Please don't hurt my feelings, Jim. I'm so fragile.

 

also still not happening lol

 

no s*** Sherlock

 

just stating my opinion on what should be done

 

I know you are a kid, the immature barbs are forgiven

[abola2121]

The off-season is the best season in my opinion. All the attention/scrutiny gets placed on management & the FO instead of the players.

[kgm1]

The off-season is the best season in my opinion. All the attention/scrutiny gets placed on management & the FO instead of the players.

 

And Ownership. Rogers gets the chance to show they want to win or if they just want to make money

[jaysfan2014]

Won't matter. Tigers will make mincemeat of the O's in the ALDS, especially with a rotation of Price, Scherzer, Porcello and Verlander.

[jaysfan2014]

O's better enjoy it now. Hardy's gone to the Yankees(or another big market team) this offseason, as is Markakis when the O's decline his expensive option. Ditto for Cruz.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

The off-season is the best season in my opinion. All the attention/scrutiny gets placed on management & the FO instead of the players.

 

Exactly, and there's no fluke months for people to overreact to and shout down people who actually have opinions about the team with "STILL IN FIRST PLACE."

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

And Ownership. Rogers gets the chance to show they want to win or if they just want to make money

 

How much money do Beeston and AA need to field a complete team? $200 million? $300 million?

 

At what point is it their fault for wasting the money they have been given (which, by the way, was a top-10 payroll in the league this year)?

[jaysfan2014]

We'll disagree on the impact of Showalter only bc u can't look at the make up on the team in a vacuum - that roster, the types of players, how they play, what they stress....it's got Showalter written all over it - no doubt, though he has final call, Duquette won't make a move that impacts the major league team unless Showalter agrees

 

Ps Cruzs season helps

 

Mostly Cruz. They won't have him back again next year.. he's going to command far more than Baltimore can afford. If you took his production out, the O's would've likely been closer to the Yanks and Jays in the standings.

[ElNik2013]

So now certain posters are conveniently forgetting to mention how they thought the O's were s*** and are actually analyzing their team...what a surprise.

 

Defense has a lot to do with it.

 

I also think Showalter is a good manager. One thing that a good manager does, is he helps the F/O in putting together the MLB roster. Showalter probably has a better understanding and knowledge of the players around MLB than does a guy like Gibby, but that's just me.

 

I hope they do well in the playoffs.

[ElNik2013]

Also, does anyone think players like Bautista, Janssen and Lind would run their mouths like they have with Showalter as their manager?

 

I, for one, don't think so. I have no doubt he made Machado apologize for the incident against the A's.

 

 

Anyway...

[G-Snarls]

Mostly Cruz. They won't have him back again next year.. he's going to command far more than Baltimore can afford. If you took his production out, the O's would've likely been closer to the Yanks and Jays in the standings.

 

No. He had a 4 WAR season, not 14 WAR.

Edited September 28, 2014 by G-Snarls

[o2cui2i]

Our GM doesn't seem to think value comes from anything other than offense.

 

yet he fielded a team that was pretty bad defensively?

[Dirty SlobberKnocker]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Steve Pearce, brought in 4.9 WAR in less than 400PA.

[comeon sense]

Also, does anyone think players like Bautista, Janssen and Lind would run their mouths like they have with Showalter as their manager?

 

I, for one, don't think so. I have no doubt he made Machado apologize for the incident against the A's.

 

 

Anyway...

This also goes to show that Gibons already knows the limits of the FO,and so do the players.

They probably knew before this trade deadline that nothing was gonna happen.

Showalter is a better communicator as far as what his players are allowed to say,and how to act.

IE Lawries tantrum,Pillars tantrum.