Has there been a single game this year... (Jose Reyes thread)

[Vincent]

I'm happy with the list as is. The minimum qualifier is used all the time when evaluating players. Again, changing the minimum qualification to something else is completely arbitrary. You can go ahead and do this yourself if you're so inclined.

[BTS]

I'm happy with the list as is. The minimum qualifier is used all the time when evaluating players. Again, changing the minimum qualification to something else is completely arbitrary.

 

The list is meaningless though. We have a good idea what you can expect to pay per win on the market, and it's more than $5.5M (between 6 and 9 depending on who you ask).

[Vincent]

BTW, your list seems to be missing Hech as well

 

FYI: Hech had a negative WAR, so hard to qualify that...

[Vincent]

The list is meaningless though. We have a good idea what you can expect to pay per win on the market, and it's more than $5.5M (between 6 and 9 depending on who you ask).

 

The list stands on its own regardless of the minimum qualification, the data is correct regardless of some players with less PAs being omitted... that in itself makes it not meaningless at all.

[JaysAllMighty]

I'm very unhappy. Mostly just unhappy watching him f***-up in every single game (or so it seems).

 

I feel the same way about him.

 

And he makes it even worse by having his hair done up like a monkey. He's a fking clown.

[BTS]

The list stands on its own regardless of the minimum qualification, the data is correct regardless of some players with less PAs being omitted... that in itself makes it not meaningless at all.

 

What I mean is that the information is worthless. It doesn't matter where Reyes sits among X shortstops with Y PA over the last Z years, because we know where his production sits in relation to market value.

[jays_fever]

Admittedly I may be somewhat bias from watching him make mistakes nearly every game (how can you not be??). He still has one of the worst $ per WAR contracts in baseball over the last 2 seasons and that will only get worse next year as his salary increases and he gets older. I also argue that as good of an all-encompassing stat as WAR is, nobody would say it's perfect, and in Reyes' case I would argue that it favors him.

 

War favors the player you don't enjoy watching? Or the fact the he plays the one of the hardest positions in the game and as such, he isn't a bad player compared to his counter parts.

[Vincent]

I feel the same way about him.

 

And he makes it even worse by having his hair done up like a monkey. He's a fking clown.

 

Yeah, literally.

 

I don't know if people are purposely being dim regarding Reyes or not.

 

WAR is not perfect and whatever the margin of error is I'm sure it's the most with Jose Reyes. The guy just finds ways to give away runs and lose ball games.

[Vincent]

What I mean is that the information is worthless. It doesn't matter where Reyes sits among X shortstops with Y PA over the last Z years, because we know where his production sits in relation to market value.

 

There's no point in arguing with you since you're stubborn as a mule. The fact remains, Reyes is arguably the most over-valued SS in the game and he is one of the key guys AA is building our team with.

[BTS]

There's no point in arguing with you since you're stubborn as a mule. The fact remains, Reyes is arguably the most over-valued SS in the game and he is one of the key guys AA is building our team with.

 

I only seem stubborn because you keep making bad posts and I keep pointing it out.

[Vincent]

I only seem stubborn because you keep making bad posts and I keep pointing it out.

 

If you want to think Reyes is worth more than $18 M this year based on his WAR and market value that's your prerogative. I don't think any rational person who watches him play every day would agree with that.

[Maahfaace]

I wonder where reyes would sit on that list if you used projected war for the SS's that missed significant time. Alas, I'm to lazy to go data hunting......Jfas?

[KingKat]

What I mean is that the information is worthless. It doesn't matter where Reyes sits among X shortstops with Y PA over the last Z years, because we know where his production sits in relation to market value.

 

I think if the position is undervalued by WAR around baseball that's not meaningless information. For instance when JFAS is suggesting that Eric Kratz might be worth 50 million dollars (or whatever the figure was), he's not actually suggesting that someone pay him that much because everyone knows that the market for Kratz isn't nearly that high. A win may be worth 7 or 9 million in abstract terms but if no one actually pays that much for wins from the shortstop position (or from a pitch framing catcher), you probably shouldn't either. There's two possibilities here. Either the market undervalues the positions overall OR (and I think this deserves serious consideration), players who play a premium position poorly are very overrated by fWAR. In either case, there's reason to believe the Jays are overpaying for what Reyes brings to the table.

[Jimcanuck]

regardless of what the numbers show, IMO Reyes has provided negative value.... if the formulae suggest otherwise, then they are faulty (we know that already)

 

for some reason, Reyes makes terrible plays at the worst times, and it cost too many games... i'm sure the numbers don't take into account the timing (or the consequence) of a throwing error or misplay

[BTS]

regardless of what the numbers show, IMO Reyes has provided negative value.... if the formulae suggest otherwise, then they are faulty (we know that already)

 

This forum is awful.

[reedjohnsonfan]

regardless of what the numbers show, IMO Reyes has provided negative value.... if the formulae suggest otherwise, then they are faulty (we know that already)

 

for some reason, Reyes makes terrible plays at the worst times, and it cost too many games... i'm sure the numbers don't take into account the timing (or the consequence) of a throwing error or misplay

 

He's hitting .285 and has almost 30 steals. His bat has been helpful but I agree his defence has seemed to hurt at the worst times. He was the win streak killer in May if you remember.

[Jimcanuck]

This forum is awful.

 

How's your buddy Friedman, traitor?

[Nox]

regardless of what the numbers show, IMO Reyes has provided negative value.... if the formulae suggest otherwise, then they are faulty (we know that already)

 

for some reason, Reyes makes terrible plays at the worst times, and it cost too many games... i'm sure the numbers don't take into account the timing (or the consequence) of a throwing error or misplay

 

 

Come on, Jim.

[reedjohnsonfan]

How's your buddy Friedman, traitor?

 

We know the Rays have no money. Maybe they cheap out on good researchers and use fangraphs because it's free? This then leads people to think their front office is the smartest.

[BTS]

How's your buddy Friedman, traitor?

 

I don't know him personally, but I assume he's probably pretty comfortable with the knowledge that his stellar track record could likely make him the highest paid GM in baseball whenever he gets tired of slumming it in TB.

[Jimcanuck]

Come on, Jim.

 

negative value in relation to his contract..... come on, nox do you seriously believe reyes has been worth $22M this year

[BTS]

negative value in relation to his contract..... come on, nox do you seriously believe reyes has been worth $22M this year

 

Reyes didn't earn $22 M this year.

[burlingtonbandit]

Reyes didn't earn $22 M this year.

 

He probably wasn't worth 16 million either..

[Jimcanuck]

Reyes didn't earn $22 M this year.

 

Ah sorry

 

$16M then.... maybe he barely earned it... I'd rather have Hech and the extra $$$ to use on Russell Martin

[Nox]

nox do you seriously believe reyes has been worth $22M this year

 

The very least you could do is get the numbers right.

[KingKat]

The irony is that I don't think anyone here actually likes the Reyes contract. The whole debate pretty much hinges on whether this was the last "good" year on the deal or the last "merely bad" year of the deal. We can all agree that he's not getting any better or any cheaper.

[Vincent]

This thread is a disaster, I'm glad to have been a part of it. Goes well with the season.

[shortstop]

Reyes is what he is to the blue jays. Since it's unlikely he's leaving anytime soon, I try to focus on what he's done well this year including:

 

a) jays don't have to worry about a leadoff hitter & he's a switch hitter - he's arguably one of the best lead-off guys in the game - I think we take this for granted

he's played a lot of games this year for the jays

c) his overall production has been ok to decent

d) he's still got a pretty strong arm

 

My sense is as happy as Reyes comes across on tv, he's sick of the losing.

 

I'm not gonna get into the cons b/c they've been covered but since he's here & likely to stay for a while, let's just hope he stays healthy

[Vincent]

jays don't have to worry about a leadoff hitter & he's a switch hitter - he's arguably one of the best lead-off guys in the game - I think we take this for granted

 

I know singling-out a stat is bad news bears around here but I really really want our lead-off guy to GET ON BASE. Do I care whether it's a walk or a single? I do not.

 

Among 29 other players with at least 300 PA'S in the majors in the lead-off position this season REYES RANKS 20TH in OBP (look I even knocked the PA down this time).

[BTS]

Why was the Reyes contest thread deleted?

 

Because it was f***ing stupid.