Daniel Norris likely up to the majors for the BP in September

[ElNik2013]

What?

 

"Let's clear payroll!"

"OK! Sounds super! Who are we going to trade?"

"Hutchison, who makes about 500K, or Bautista, who makes 14M."

"Sounds good. 500K and 14M are about the same."

 

 

You're right. I shouldn't have lumped Hutchison in the post about creating payroll room. I had brought up his name earlier as a possible trade candidate to see what kind of package he'd fetch. When I'm wrong, I admit it.

[DuckDuckGose]

If the plan is to clear payroll and then add in FA the Jays shouldn't move Bau or Edwin as they are on team friendly deals that are a rarity on the FA market. Id look to move one of Buehrle and Dickey moved. Let Rasmus walk.

 

I'd move Hutch, Norris, anyone for the right return. Stanton and Tulo are rumored to be available and I want both!

[burlingtonbandit]

If the plan is to clear payroll and then add in FA the Jays shouldn't move Bau or Edwin as they are on team friendly deals that are a rarity on the FA market. Id look to move one of Buehrle and Dickey moved. Let Rasmus walk.

 

I'd move Hutch, Norris, anyone for the right return. Stanton and Tulo are rumored to be available and I want both!

 

For the value Dickey provides he is worth his contract and it would be hard to replace that as well. I think you have to trade Buehrle provided it would help the team.

 

Obviously you would move anyone for the right return...

[ElNik2013]

If the plan is to clear payroll and then add in FA the Jays shouldn't move Bau or Edwin as they are on team friendly deals that are a rarity on the FA market. Id look to move one of Buehrle and Dickey moved. Let Rasmus walk.

 

I'd move Hutch, Norris, anyone for the right return. Stanton and Tulo are rumored to be available and I want both!

 

 

Moving Bautista is an idea along the lines of trying to get 2 or more players back. Remember, he'll be 34 at season's end and his value will only go down. Just saying the team needs to get creative and this may entail trading one of the team's core players.

[BigCecil]

For the value Dickey provides he is worth his contract and it would be hard to replace that as well. I think you have to trade Buehrle provided it would help the team.

 

Obviously you would move anyone for the right return...

 

For all the s*** RA takes - I agree with this. Especially after the SP market established this past off season.

[BigCecil]

Moving Bautista is an idea along the lines of trying to get 2 or more players back. Remember, he'll be 34 at season's end and his value will only go down. Just saying the team needs to get creative and this may entail trading one of the team's core players.

 

This idea depends on where you are going organizationally and what you get back obviously. Hard to replace that .900+ OPS in 3 spot.

 

If you are throwing in the towel for rebuild around young arms maybe or if you can get some significant young cheap contributing talent to offset the loss?

 

Otherwise 2 more years at that price for Jose makes no sense to move.

 

I have no idea where Jays mgm is going with this team right now. They are half pregnant with no clear direction which frustrates me most.

[Caper]

I have no idea where Jays mgm is going with this team right now. They are half pregnant with no clear direction which frustrates me most.

 

Dude. It's not hard to figure out. They are close to making the playoffs this year... And that is with 3 of their best players out for huge stretches. They have a tonne of young pitching that's already here or will be within the next year. They need a second basemen next year.... and some more luck with health... That's it.

[ElNik2013]

This idea depends on where you are going organizationally and what you get back obviously. Hard to replace that .900+ OPS in 3 spot.

 

If you are throwing in the towel for rebuild around young arms maybe or if you can get some significant young cheap contributing talent to offset the loss?

 

Otherwise 2 more years at that price for Jose makes no sense to move.

 

I have no idea where Jays mgm is going with this team right now. They are half pregnant with no clear direction which frustrates me most.

 

 

You're right that Bautista's deal is great, but there's nothing wrong with seeing what you could get in return for him in a trade. I would certainly rather move Buehrle and/or Reyes, but it's doubtful any team would give you much in return and you'd probably have to send some $ the other way to make it work. We'll have to wait and see what happens...

[BigCecil]

Dude. It's not hard to figure out. They are close to making the playoffs this year... And that is with 3 of their best players out for huge stretches. They have a tonne of young pitching that's already here or will be within the next year. They need a second basemen next year.... and some more luck with health... That's it.

 

Dude. Seriously? lol. We needed a 2nd basemen for THIS year and didn't get one...so now you think that's an automatic for us this off season? Explain that to me.

 

We were close? Sort of. Our rotation needs addressing....our pen has been poor and we lose Casey. The rest of the division will look very diff in 2015. This team wasn't built to be close anyway. AA rolled to win with MIA and RA deal. The payroll is plenty to win selecting the right talent.

 

More luck on health? Lawrie has played 60% of his career games. He cant stay healthy. We lose a hitter that faces RHP only - Lind. And we lose Edwin for a protracted period. Ok- that's a tough assignment. But O's have weathered loss of Weiters and extended periods of Machado who had a 6 + WAR last year. Not to mention Davis crashed from 2013. Others faced worse injuries in our division. NYY entire rotation was wiped out.

 

I guess you think Bosox, Rays, NYY wont address this season? Next year is a whole new ballgame and "we were close" this year will have little to do with it.

 

We will see how the young arms develop. Hitters will adjust and we will see over a longer period how they perform. Far from a slam dunk.

 

I don't want to be pessimistic and there is some room for optimism for sure, but I think you are sucking back way too much AA Kool-Aid to think this is all according to plan.

Edited August 17, 2014 by BigCecil

[BigCecil]

You're right that Bautista's deal is great, but there's nothing wrong with seeing what you could get in return for him in a trade. I would certainly rather move Buehrle and/or Reyes, but it's doubtful any team would give you much in return and you'd probably have to send some $ the other way to make it work. We'll have to wait and see what happens...

 

Agree it never hurts to see what is on table.

 

Think about what Santana, Jiminez and Arroyo got this off season. Mark B isn't really much of an overpay on 1 year, if you need a LH SP with experience and durability.

 

Reyes would be worth more if he supported moving to 2nd imo. He has had a solid offensive year so far.

 

I actually think there will be interest in them...tough to say what we would have to eat.

[burlingtonbandit]

You're right that Bautista's deal is great, but there's nothing wrong with seeing what you could get in return for him in a trade. I would certainly rather move Buehrle and/or Reyes, but it's doubtful any team would give you much in return and you'd probably have to send some $ the other way to make it work. We'll have to wait and see what happens...

 

I have no doubt there would be interest in Buehrle and Reyes. The Dodgers traded for Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez with those contracts and Vernon Wells was moved once upon a time. There is a ton of money in the game and Reyes and Buehrle don't have extreme term to them compared with others around the league.

[ElNik2013]

I have no doubt there would be interest in Buehrle and Reyes. The Dodgers traded for Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez with those contracts and Vernon Wells was moved once upon a time. There is a ton of money in the game and Reyes and Buehrle don't have extreme term to them compared with others around the league.

 

 

I hope AA is willing to explore doing something like this, if a deal is out there. We'll see what happens.

[burlingtonbandit]

I hope AA is willing to explore doing something like this, if a deal is out there. We'll see what happens.

 

I think AA is a guy who would do that. He will listen on everyone including guys like even Bautista and EE. What teams out there are a fit for Buehrle?

[G-Snarls]

I think AA is a guy who would do that. He will listen on everyone including guys like even Bautista and EE.

 

What teams out there are a fit for Buehrle?

 

Yankees

Red Sox

Twins

Rangers

Angels

Giants

Pirates

Brewers

Dodgers

 

Any team without 5 good starters and who have some payroll flexibility

[RealAccountant]

In b4 Lawrie is penciled in at 2nd and 3rd

[burlingtonbandit]

Yankees

Red Sox

Twins

Rangers

Angels

Giants

Pirates

Brewers

Dodgers

 

Any team without 5 good starters and who have some payroll flexibility

 

Of that list I see the most likely teams to acquire him without having to add salary being the

 

Angels

Giants

Dodgers

[GD]

Of that list I see the most likely teams to acquire him without having to add salary being the

 

Angels

Giants

Dodgers

 

+Yankees imo

 

Angels are probably the best fit. Idk what we'd get from them though.

[burlingtonbandit]

+Yankees imo

 

Angels are probably the best fit. Idk what we'd get from them though.

 

Doubt the Yankees would want him. Buehrle pitches terrible in that park and I am sure Cashman recognizes that. Also Yankees are in the division so I can't really see that happening.

[DuckDuckGose]

For the value Dickey provides he is worth his contract and it would be hard to replace that as well. I think you have to trade Buehrle provided it would help the team.

 

Obviously you would move anyone for the right return...

 

Dickey is worth his contact but he is being paid like he would If he was plucked from tge FA market. You'd use the money saved from Dickey + Rasmus for a guy like Lester.

[burlingtonbandit]

Dickey is worth his contact but he is being paid like he would If he was plucked from tge FA market. You'd use the money saved from Dickey + Rasmus for a guy like Lester.

 

If Dickey was on the open market he would get at least 15 million$ a season and maybe close to 20 on a short team deal. Dickey is a good duy to have here as he is dependable for 200 innings plus if you believe in the Dickey effect adds more to your team. Hate to break it to you but Lester isn't coming here. They may have a chance at a guy like McCarty or Masterson.

[DuckDuckGose]

If Dickey was on the open market he would get at least 15 million$ a season and maybe close to 20 on a short team deal. Dickey is a good duy to have here as he is dependable for 200 innings plus if you believe in the Dickey effect adds more to your team. Hate to break it to you but Lester isn't coming here. They may have a chance at a guy like McCarty or Masterson.

 

No he wouldn't. He'd be hard pressed to get a QO at this point.

[burlingtonbandit]

No he wouldn't. He'd be hard pressed to get a QO at this point.

 

Well yeah because at his age a QO would kill his value. If he were on the open market right now, you think he gets less than a 1 year/15 Million$ deal?

[DuckDuckGose]

Well yeah because at his age a QO would kill his value. If he were on the open market right now, you think he gets less than a 1 year/15 Million$ deal?

 

He wouldn't receive a QO let alone accept it. He'd get between $8-$12M AAV on a short deal. Similar to what Bronson Arroyo got.

[baubau]

If Dickey was on the open market he would get at least 15 million$ a season and maybe close to 20 on a short team deal. Dickey is a good duy to have here as he is dependable for 200 innings plus if you believe in the Dickey effect adds more to your team. Hate to break it to you but Lester isn't coming here. They may have a chance at a guy like McCarty or Masterson.

 

Going by last year's signing:

 

Garza - 2.2 WAR / 3.82 ERA / 3.73 xFIP

Nolasco - 3.1 WAR / 3.70 ERA / 3.58 xFIP

Jimenez - 3.3 WAR / 3.30 ERA / 3.62 xFIP

 

Garza/Jimenez got 50M over 4 years and Nolasco 49M over 4 years... Averaging around $12.5M per year.

 

Last year: RA Dickey - 2.1 WAR / 4.21 ERA / 4.23 xFIP, last year

This year: RA Dickey - 1.6 WAR / 3.95 ERA / 4.07 xFIP

 

I cannot see RA making more than or equal to the guys mentioned above. I'd suspect in the open market he'd get around $10M at most. Add his knuckle ball uncertainty and how he pitches based on the park plus his age... you may even see offers less than $10M.

[burlingtonbandit]

Going by last year's signing:

 

Garza - 2.2 WAR / 3.82 ERA / 3.73 xFIP

Nolasco - 3.1 WAR / 3.70 ERA / 3.58 xFIP

Jimenez - 3.3 WAR / 3.30 ERA / 3.62 xFIP

 

Garza/Jimenez got 50M over 4 years and Nolasco 49M over 4 years... Averaging around $12.5M per year.

 

Last year: RA Dickey - 2.1 WAR / 4.21 ERA / 4.23 xFIP, last year

This year: RA Dickey - 1.6 WAR / 3.95 ERA / 4.07 xFIP

 

I cannot see RA making more than or equal to the guys mentioned above. I'd suspect in the open market he'd get around $10M at most. Add his knuckle ball uncertainty and how he pitches based on the park plus his age... you may even see offers less than $10M.

 

Yeah but those examples are of guys who got 4 year deals. My argument is that dickey would sign a 1 year deal and would get at least 15 million. If Jimenez or Garza had no QO last year and decided to sign a 1 year deal they would of received 15-20 million for one season easily.

[DuckDuckGose]

Yeah but those examples are of guys who got 4 year deals. My argument is that dickey would sign a 1 year deal and would get at least 15 million. If Jimenez or Garza had no QO last year and decided to sign a 1 year deal they would of received 15-20 million for one season easily.

 

So you honestly think he'd get the same amount as Burnett or Kuroda did last offseason? I don't see any reason to assume that.

[burlingtonbandit]

So you honestly think he'd get the same amount as Burnett or Kuroda did last offseason? I don't see any reason to assume that.

 

Yeah if it was truly an open market. Kuroda was going to the Yankees or retire so I don't think you can compare them equally.

[DuckDuckGose]

Yeah if it was truly an open market. Kuroda was going to the Yankees or retire so I don't think you can compare them equally.

 

So he'd get more than Santana and Colon? I just don't see it, he's a backend guy.

[burlingtonbandit]

So he'd get more than Santana and Colon? I just don't see it, he's a backend guy.

 

Santana had the QO attached and still got almost 15 million. He could be a good number 3/number 2 in the right ballpark in the NL.

[DuckDuckGose]

Santana had the QO attached and still got almost 15 million. He could be a good number 3/number 2 in the right ballpark in the NL.

 

Colon wasn't tied to compensation so what is your explanation there?