Blue Jays to Teams: "We can't take on any extra money."

[CJ-Freeway]

SN1

 

cf

 

Oh ok my bad, thanks

[oakville69]

This trade deadline is a microcosm of the last 20 years. Can't decide what to do; buy or sell?

 

The problem is that there's no plan, they just seem to switch gears on a whim.

 

Unless this "can't take on money" thing is just posturing, this is going to be an ugly, ugly end to the season.

 

Agreed. It's one thing to lose the division to the Red Sox or Yankees or Rays, but if we lose to the Orioles it would be embarrassing.

 

The Jays need to be in a pennant race this year.

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

Agreed. It's one thing to lose the division to the Red Sox or Yankees or Rays, but if we lose to the Orioles it would be embarrassing.

 

Ummm.... how? The Orioles are a superior team and better-run organization than we are, it's just the reality of the situation. The real embarrassment is 21 years and counting of no playoffs and refusing to even plan for the future.

[Gorlak]

AA has no money, so he would be forced to spend talent to make improvements. He knows that's not a good idea long term, so he is forced to stand pat. Have to figure that money isn't available because Rogers missed estimates last quarter.

[Dick_Pole]

I'm so sick and tired of hearing about how casuals liked the Marlins trade, and now it's stupid blah blah blah...

 

I liked the trade because at the time I had assumed that Rogers was going in the direction of an inefficient highly paid playoff team. IE make the playoffs on a $150-200M payroll. Looking back at it now, of course that trade was stupid but we weren't privy to the information we have now, casual or "real" fan. If someone said to me In December 2012 that in July 2014 they payroll would be frozen at $140M, I would say f*** no, don't make that trade and use that spare cash on other players. I think everyone would.

 

Now that leaves one of two options. Either Rogers had made AA believe they wanted to go the route of inefficient highly paid playoff team as fast as possible and that belief was undone, which means AA got seriously f***ed over after following orders in December 2012. Or AA got the $140M hard limit and spent it like a maniac which makes him the dumbest piece of s*** ever and he needs to go. Actually the third option could be Beeston getting his nose in there and muddying up the communication between possibility #1 and #2.

 

We don't know the situation and until someone speaks, like 5 years from now when AA is an organ grinder in front of Habs home games and someone candidly interviews him about his tenure as Jays GM and he decides to throw people under the bus. But until that time we are all just speculating if it is AA's fault, Rogers' fault or Beeston's fault or a combination of all three.

[GD]

The killer for me was Reyes for Yunel. Just the worst.

[Dick_Pole]

Escobar was a PR dump, it hadn't much to do with that trade, hell, the Marlins dumped him to the Rays for nothing. That wasn't AA, all Beeston and Rogers, again.

 

Yup...f***in team...they are all-stars at PR opportunities at every turn except when it comes to results in the standings.

[jayswin11]

How many Blue Jays fans are there in Canada? If we all gave $1.00 to the Jays do you think we could afford to bring in a decent player or 2? Listen I'm doing ok for myself, I'll even put in $20.00 to make up for those Jays fan who are less fortunate. Maybe the JAYS wives could start going door to door in the GTA taking up a collection. Please help us buy a player.

[jayswin11]

*Give your head a swift shake*

 

Thanks!

 

An obvious joke.

 

thanks.

[oakville69]

Ummm.... how? The Orioles are a superior team and better-run organization than we are, it's just the reality of the situation. The real embarrassment is 21 years and counting of no playoffs and refusing to even plan for the future.

 

I think that AA should know better since the GM of of the Orioles was the GM of the Expos. AA was an Expos fan at that time.

 

AA should not let himself get outsmarted by the Orioles.

[oakville69]

Escobar was a PR dump, it hadn't much to do with that trade, hell, the Marlins dumped him to the Rays for nothing. That wasn't AA, all Beeston and Rogers, again.

 

The Jays would have been better off with Escobar vs Reyes, & the salary savings spent elsewhere

[Gorlak]

AA was forced to trade escobar, which likely lead the way for the big trade. AA was told he couldn't take on any extra dollars after the trade and was force to trade the Jays best prospects for the only good pitcher that could be obtained with salary remaining neutral.

[ElNik2013]

AA was forced to trade escobar, which likely lead the way for the big trade. AA was told he couldn't take on any extra dollars after the trade and was force to trade the Jays best prospects for the only good pitcher that could be obtained with salary remaining neutral.

 

 

I have always given AA a pass for Escobar because of the homophobic slur, but no one forced him to take on Reyes and Buehrle's contracts and max out the payroll. Similarly, no one put a gun to his head to get RAD. It's quite conceivable he could've gotten a younger pitcher for Syndergaard and D'Arnaud.

 

Anyway....

[KingKat]

You are really, really, really being an overemotional ahole lately. Stalking me to criticize my posting ... typically in a very, very overreactive and misguided manner. It started with you going off on my alleged judgment of others' fandom, when you were, in fact, not able to understand that I was criticizing another poster for doing that, and not truly engaging in it myself. And it should now stop.

 

There's nothing ghoulish about what I said. It gives no indication about my "soul." The simple truth is, there was very little, to nothing, to go on in that situation. You guys weren't even sure what his real name was, or where he lived, or ... well, just about anything. Yet you all ran wild with some very non-credible "evidence" you tried to piece together, and pronounced a guy deceased. And then lamented him. If I had taken a cheap shot at the poster who actually did pass away, or somehow mocked the board's reaction to that ... then you would have some legitimate right to call my character into question. Here, I am only commenting on what was another overreaction to very little information which may or may not prove out to be true. You have to get a grip. I mean, really. Are you feeling OK? Everything going alright over there?

 

Wouldn't you agree that of all the things you would use to discredit people this one seems really odd? I mean there's a lot of hyperbole on this board but you latch on to an incident of people being concerned about the fate of another board member? Maybe that doesn't seem dickish to you and maybe I'm wrong about your intentions but you must at the very least be able to see how it could seem like you really go out of your way to be unpleasant and to be disliked. You are probably on more ignore lists than any other poster on this board, many of whom can be quite abrasive, shouldn't that tip you off to something? If you're not just trying to get a rise out of people than maybe you should re-consider some of the stuff you write.

[oakville69]

I'm so sick and tired of hearing about how casuals liked the Marlins trade, and now it's stupid blah blah blah...

 

I liked the trade because at the time I had assumed that Rogers was going in the direction of an inefficient highly paid playoff team. IE make the playoffs on a $150-200M payroll. Looking back at it now, of course that trade was stupid but we weren't privy to the information we have now, casual or "real" fan. If someone said to me In December 2012 that in July 2014 they payroll would be frozen at $140M, I would say f*** no, don't make that trade and use that spare cash on other players. I think everyone would.

 

Now that leaves one of two options. Either Rogers had made AA believe they wanted to go the route of inefficient highly paid playoff team as fast as possible and that belief was undone, which means AA got seriously f***ed over after following orders in December 2012. Or AA got the $140M hard limit and spent it like a maniac which makes him the dumbest piece of s*** ever and he needs to go. Actually the third option could be Beeston getting his nose in there and muddying up the communication between possibility #1 and #2.

 

We don't know the situation and until someone speaks, like 5 years from now when AA is an organ grinder in front of Habs home games and someone candidly interviews him about his tenure as Jays GM and he decides to throw people under the bus. But until that time we are all just speculating if it is AA's fault, Rogers' fault or Beeston's fault or a combination of all three.

 

It could be that Rogers was embarrassed by losing Farrell & knew that they had to make the team competitive quickly. The new revenue sharing agreements cut the Jays out . I think Rogers approved AAs spending spree, but hey are leving him out to dry by not allowing any more spening.

 

Jays need a playoff race desperately this year. It's their best chance.

[ElNik2013]

Are you sure about this? He pulled a 180 from his plan, strings were pulled, or he's an asshat.

 

 

I can't say I'm sure. I just think that even if he was told to improve the team at any cost, he still should've negotiated a better deal with the Marlins either in terms of prospects given up or in $ sent back by them.

 

I do believe the reports (Davidi and Lott's book), that he went after Anibal Sanchez and Jake Peavy before going back to the Marlins to talk about JJ in a somewhat desperate spot given that they decided they couldn't go into 2013 expecting to lose 95 or 100 games. However, as said above, he's gotta be held accountable for negotiating the trade.

[oakville69]

I don't agree with all of that, but I believe Beeston was pulling puppet strings, I wish Alex just quit, and threw him under the bus, but he'd never land a gig again if he did that.

 

 

If AA is fired by the Jays as a scapegoat, would he ever get another GM Job ?

[ElNik2013]

If AA is fired by the Jays as a scapegoat, would he ever get another GM Job ?

 

 

I believe AA is best-suited to be an assistant GM so that's where I think he could land. Maybe he'd get another shot in a few years.

[oakville69]

I can't say I'm sure. I just think that even if he was told to improve the team at any cost, he still should've negotiated a better deal with the Marlins either in terms of prospects given up or in $ sent back by them.

 

I do believe the reports (Davidi and Lott's book), that he went after Anibal Sanchez and Jake Peavy before going back to the Marlins to talk about JJ in a somewhat desperate spot given that they decided they couldn't go into 2013 expecting to lose 95 or 100 games. However, as said above, he's gotta be held accountable for negotiating the trade.

 

The Marlins trade was the fastest way to improve the team quickly. I agree that AA's original plan of getting JJ or AS Or JP was more prudent.

[Gorlak]

He made the trade, But if he wasn't forced to trade Escobar, He wouldn't have been looking for a shortstop. Young good pitchers don't get traded. He did decide he needed to make those moves, I'm just saying ownership pushed him towards those conclusions. The fact that he hasn't mortgaged the future yet shows he is not a fan of inefficient short term deals. R.A. was him going for it in the traditional sense. He may have been backed into the R.A. trade, But he may have thought the knuckleballer would have been an ace at 60% of the cost.

[Angrioter]

AA was forced to trade escobar, which likely lead the way for the big trade. AA was told he couldn't take on any extra dollars after the trade and was force to trade the Jays best prospects for the only good pitcher that could be obtained with salary remaining neutral.

 

 

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=779&d=1405824686

[Dick_Pole]

It could be that Rogers was embarrassed by losing Farrell & knew that they had to make the team competitive quickly. The new revenue sharing agreements cut the Jays out . I think Rogers approved AAs spending spree, but hey are leving him out to dry by not allowing any more spening.

 

Jays need a playoff race desperately this year. It's their best chance.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if most of the Rogers' brass didn't even know who Farrell was. But if that's the case I'd be very worried for their shareholders. Imagine if a telecom exec left Rogers to go to Bell and Rogers' immediate response was a spiteful price war against Bell? I doubt that Farrell leaving was a driver for the spending.

 

Honestly, I couldn't point my finger at a single reason why this has happened. It's just been a very odd and disheartening situation. Was it the NHL $$$ spent? Rogers trying to get their financials in order for Bay Street? Lack of trust in AA? If so, why don't they just can him? Is AA just riding it out and half-assing the job knowing the writing is on the wall? Even if the payroll is frozen, he still has some options to shed then re-add if he worked hard at it but it seems that he refuses to do so. This is the same man who fought tooth and nail to get Rasmus here through two other GMs and a dozen players. Creative moves like with Olivo. Now his major thing is waiver wire fodder and being bridesmaid for Kinsler. The AA from a few years ago would have made the Kinsler trade work even if it took a couple other stage-setting moves. His heart for this job was a lot more apparent three years ago than now.

[Gorlak]

Are you sure about this? He pulled a 180 from his plan, strings were pulled, or he's an asshat.

 

It was likely a perfect storm of sorts, Add in the supposed weakness in the al east. Only thing worse than being wrong, is being right too early.

[ElNik2013]

It wouldn't surprise me if most of the Rogers' brass didn't even know who Farrell was. But if that's the case I'd be very worried for their shareholders. Imagine if a telecom exec left Rogers to go to Bell and Rogers' immediate response was a spiteful price war against Bell? I doubt that Farrell leaving was a driver for the spending.

 

Honestly, I couldn't point my finger at a single reason why this has happened. It's just been a very odd and disheartening situation. Was it the NHL $$$ spent? Rogers trying to get their financials in order for Bay Street? Lack of trust in AA? If so, why don't they just can him? Is AA just riding it out and half-assing the job knowing the writing is on the wall? Even if the payroll is frozen, he still has some options to shed then re-add if he worked hard at it but it seems that he refuses to do so. This is the same man who fought tooth and nail to get Rasmus here through two other GMs and a dozen players. Creative moves like with Olivo. Now his major thing is waiver wire fodder and being bridesmaid for Kinsler. The AA from a few years ago would have made the Kinsler trade work even if it took a couple other stage-setting moves. His heart for this job was a lot more apparent three years ago than now.

 

 

You make some good points, especially regarding AA's passiveness. I've hypothesized that he's basically a lame pig, I mean duck GM. Meaning that Pelley may have hired a consultant and put a moratorium on major moves or at least given the order that moves be approved by his consultant first.

 

Who knows really, but it is unlike AA to be this quiet. When's the last trade he pulled off? I guess it would be Lincoln for Kratz and Rasmussen.

[ElNik2013]

The Marlins trade was the fastest way to improve the team quickly. I agree that AA's original plan of getting JJ or AS Or JP was more prudent.

 

 

Yeah, no doubt, one trade, you get 2 starting pitchers, a non-homophobic SS, at least publicly, a track-running utility IF/OF and you get rid of your PR nightmare SS without having to eat his contract, as team-friendly as it was.

 

Too late now...

[Gorlak]

You make some good points, especially regarding AA's passiveness. I've hypothesized that he's basically a lame pig, I mean duck GM. Meaning that Pelley may have hired a consultant and put a moratorium on major moves or at least given the order that moves be approved by his consultant first.

 

Who knows really, but it is unlike AA to be this quiet. When's the last trade he pulled off? I guess it would be Lincoln for Kratz and Rasmussen.

 

Everybody wants AA to keep the prospects, But talk s*** for him not making trades.

[Gorlak]

Yeah, no doubt, one trade, you get 2 starting pitchers, a non-homophobic SS, at least publicly, a track-running utility IF/OF and you get rid of your PR nightmare SS without having to eat his contract, as team-friendly as it was.

 

Too late now...

 

Also a supposed world series contender, Nobody predicted that the team would be bad.

[ElNik2013]

Everybody wants AA to keep the prospects, But talk s*** for him not making trades.

 

 

 

Who's "everybody". It all depends my man. We don't want the team's GM, whomever he is at any point, trading 2 top prospects for 38 year old trick-pitchers. Or for 30+ year old, injury prone SS in decline and with 100+M remaining on his contract which would take him into his mid 30's.

 

Trade D'Arnaud and Syndergaard for a Matt Latos? Sure.

 

Again, as stated above, some of us suspect meddling from above the GM, but the GM still has to work out good deals.

[ElNik2013]

Also a supposed world series contender, Nobody predicted that the team would be bad.

 

 

True, but it was a gamble. Even some of the cheerleading media members said AA had gone all in and put his job on the line. It hasn't worked out so it's only natural that he be held accountable. It may or may not be totally fair, but it is what it is.

[Dick_Pole]

Everybody wants AA to keep the prospects, But talk s*** for him not making trades.

 

There's lots of moves AA can do that don't involve trading top prospects.