Unloading the farm for David Price

[GeorgiaPeach]

It can be argued that the future payroll problems and s***** farm system is all the more reason to go all in now, with a closing window.

 

So you'd prefer to make the problems both worse? Interesting.

 

And my guess is when the Jays suck ass, you'd be right there bitching they traded their farm away and why, oh why would they run with an expensive old s*** team.

 

Typical Jays fan.

[GeorgiaPeach]

We need the David Cone trade. Yes we traded Jeff Kent to get him but it was well worth it since we won the WS.

 

Don't you think '94 and on might've been a little better than it was, having a future HOF man 2B on the cheap for some of those years?

[GeorgiaPeach]

That was actually an excellent trade, in hindsight. If only we had held onto Leiter, who blossomed after we gave up on him and had far more WAR over the remainder of his career than Barfield.

 

Who would've thought it would take 4 years to solve blister problems?

[CHRIS]

Don't you think '94 and on might've been a little better than it was, having a future HOF man 2B on the cheap for some of those years?

 

Tough to know what Kent was to become at the time. Can't blame them for that trade, especially considering how they came up short through '91.

[Caper]

The Rays and Royals will not fall far enough out of the playoff race.... where they feel they have to trade their number ones.

[BigCecil]

This team can wait it out until closer to the deadline. I don't see the immediate rush considering what we just saw from Stroman.

 

There is no rush. You cant force a deal. It will happen when its ready to materialize based on a number of factors. That's obvious. Behind the scenes and off the record these discussions have already started taking place.

Edited June 1, 2014 by BigCecil

[BigCecil]

Don't you think '94 and on might've been a little better than it was, having a future HOF man 2B on the cheap for some of those years?

 

This debate could go on forever. Taking someone now who can add value to a playoff run for someone with potential future value. Who knew Kent would be a future HOFer for sure? Maybe he would become a Snider or many of the other top rated prospects who don't translate into what was projected. Read the Mets Board vis a vis D'arnaud. It didn't work well for the Expos with Colon. Had they won in 94 or on that gamble they may still have a team. If we don't win in 92 and get over the hump nobody knows what the state of our team would be now. How much Cone was the catalyst for the win is debateable.

 

Sometimes these deals work and sometimes they don't. They all have a cost and hopefully the upside you want associated with them. I think you have to look at every situation on its own merits given the circumstances.

[jayswin11]

Don't you think '94 and on might've been a little better than it was, having a future HOF man 2B on the cheap for some of those years?

 

Maybe but you play to win the World Series, Cone put us over the top in 1992. Same as trading Karsay for Rickey Henderson in 1993.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Maybe but you play to win the World Series, Cone put us over the top in 1992. Same as trading Karsay for Rickey Henderson in 1993.

 

If that's the case, I don't understand why fans are upset with the mediocrity that followed 1993?

 

The Jays had old teams back in 1992 & 1993. So wouldn't it make sense when those players retired or left the team things would be bad?

 

You can't want World Series wins and then cry because all the vets left and the farm is bare......why the f*** is the team not still winning.

[kgm1]

I think AA stated very clearly on XM radio that 1) They would be looking for a rental, 2) We can't keep trading off our young pitching and 3) I'm damn sure AA will want to see what Morrow has to offer which is supposed to happen before the deadline.

 

As the nails keep getting hammered into Tampa,s coffin you know Price will be on the market sooner than most to try and extract more value. Won't be surprised if he is moved by the Allstar break. I just hope some NL team steps up.

[BigCecil]

If that's the case, I don't understand why fans are upset with the mediocrity that followed 1993?

 

The Jays had old teams back in 1992 & 1993. So wouldn't it make sense when those players retired or left the team things would be bad?

 

You can't want World Series wins and then cry because all the vets left and the farm is bare......why the f*** is the team not still winning.

 

Fair comment.

[BigCecil]

I think AA stated very clearly on XM radio that 1) They would be looking for a rental, 2) We can't keep trading off our young pitching and 3) I'm damn sure AA will want to see what Morrow has to offer which is supposed to happen before the deadline.

 

As the nails keep getting hammered into Tampa,s coffin you know Price will be on the market sooner than most to try and extract more value. Won't be surprised if he is moved by the Allstar break. I just hope some NL team steps up.

 

I cringe to think what we do may depend on Morrow in any way. To me that would meet the definition of insanity.

[connorp]

If that's the case, I don't understand why fans are upset with the mediocrity that followed 1993?

 

The Jays had old teams back in 1992 & 1993. So wouldn't it make sense when those players retired or left the team things would be bad?

 

You can't want World Series wins and then cry because all the vets left and the farm is bare......why the f*** is the team not still winning.

 

Well that's a fair outlook up until like 1998 or so.. not sure if going all in is supposed to mean 20+ years of ineptitude.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

If that's the case, I don't understand why fans are upset with the mediocrity that followed 1993?

 

The Jays had old teams back in 1992 & 1993. So wouldn't it make sense when those players retired or left the team things would be bad?

 

You can't want World Series wins and then cry because all the vets left and the farm is bare......why the f*** is the team not still winning.

 

My observation is that older fans that followed the team from 1983-1993 are NOT upset about not winning since 1993, it's mostly younger fans who think the team will perpetually suck for irrational reasons. In 1991, fans were upset with the Jays because they "always" choked in big playoff games or late in the season. This sentiment was extremely strong, there were tons of fans saying they'd never win a WS, if social media existed it would be a similar s*** storm of people blasting the team. The team decided enough was enough let's go into overdrive and get a title.

 

I'm certainly not upset they traded Kent, it was a fun ride, two WS titles and some teams would kill for that ( see Cubs ).

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

1st place June 1st with a bona fide offense and defense. Decent rotation that needs one more horse.

 

An AL East with good teams all with their share of holes. This opportunity rarely comes.

 

I like Norris and Sanchez, but the price of Shields or a Masterson will be steep. Its a sellers market.

 

AA has to make the move for the now imo.

 

No need to overpay for that starter at this point. Several capable starters shifted teams last year before the deadline, none at the expense of multiple top prospects from the acquiring team ( the Boston trade maybe, that trade helps with looking at market prices ). We are surviving very well and the deadline is getting closer, so no point in trying to jump the queue and overpay for a guy to get an extra months worth of starts. Plus that scenario is rare anyways.

 

Sellers market ? Time will tell, I was underwhelmed with the prospects that were moved last season. If we do trade a prospect, it needs to be for a quality guy who is consistently good this season.

[kgm1]

I cringe to think what we do may depend on Morrow in any way. To me that would meet the definition of insanity.

 

Cringe but with the seemingly lack of resources it may be the best we can hope for. now if suddenly the fans start going thru the turnstiles that may change.

[BigCecil]

Cringe but with the seemingly lack of resources it may be the best we can hope for. now if suddenly the fans start going thru the turnstiles that may change.

 

Oh, I think we have the resources to get a Shields but it will cost us prospects most don't seem to want to part with. I don't want to fill one hole on MLB roster only to create another when making a run.

[closetjaysfan]

If that's the case, I don't understand why fans are upset with the mediocrity that followed 1993?

 

The Jays had old teams back in 1992 & 1993. So wouldn't it make sense when those players retired or left the team things would be bad?

 

You can't want World Series wins and then cry because all the vets left and the farm is bare......why the f*** is the team not still winning.

 

I sure wasn't complaining about winning back to back world series. By 1996, they were still relying on a few aging vets from their series run, but had Green, Stewart, Delgado and Gonzalez on their roster. They had good young talent through much of the 1990's and 2000's but simply didn't manage them effectively. A good example of this is Chris Carpenter who struggled in his last season with the Jays so they released him... 2 years later he wins the Cy Young.

[jayswin11]

If that's the case, I don't understand why fans are upset with the mediocrity that followed 1993?

 

The Jays had old teams back in 1992 & 1993. So wouldn't it make sense when those players retired or left the team things would be bad?

 

You can't want World Series wins and then cry because all the vets left and the farm is bare......why the f*** is the team not still winning.

 

I don't think most fans (me anyways) would have been upset with a bad team for a few years after back to back WS. 20+ years of no playoff contender is a different story though.

[Deadpool]

You can't empty what isn't full.

 

What?

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IdTHLwoTxFk/UU9XLp9Ot1I/AAAAAAAAEfc/U6ib67Rj-oE/s1600/the_sphinx1.jpg

[GeorgiaPeach]

 

Regardless, I think even the most demanding fans would allow for a bit of a lull following the nearly decade long build-up of an exciting organization, fielding exciting players, playing exciting games nearly year in, year out ... which culminated in 2 WS championships.

 

But then it became the second-longest active postseason dry spell in the majors. Two decades worth. Just think about that. You're talking about, in 1994, having a 5-year old kid who is just getting brainwashed into cheering for daddy's fave team, the Blue Jays, and finally understanding what's going on when he is, in fact, cheering the team on. That kid is now 25. He went through grade school, high school, got his driver's license, graduated college, maybe even grad school, maybe even is married with a kid of his own. And he's never seen a team compete (let alone win).

 

So even though the lull itself is understandable, it's now part of something bigger. Total futility over two decades.

 

But, yes, a demanding fan can cry that the cupboard was bare after WS wins.

 

I guess it depends on what you watch the games for.

[AdamDunnHatesBaseball]

So you'd prefer to make the problems both worse? Interesting.

 

And my guess is when the Jays suck ass, you'd be right there bitching they traded their farm away and why, oh why would they run with an expensive old s*** team.

 

Typical Jays fan.

 

Lol Gibbers, way to assume things. The goal of the organization should be to win a championship. Maintaining the status quo won't lead to one in the short term. The payroll issues and lack of farm is also going to mean they won't win it long term, either. So the best bet to win is to go for it this year. Do i have to spell it out for you? Btw, only angry old Gibbers would criticize the kent for cone deal.

[GD]

Lol Gibbers, way to assume things. The goal of the organization should be to win a championship. Maintaining the status quo won't lead to one in the short term. The payroll issues and lack of farm is also going to mean they won't win it long term, either. So the best bet to win is to go for it this year. Do i have to spell it out for you? Btw, only angry old Gibbers would criticize the kent for cone deal.

 

Okay, so who from the old board are you?

[GeorgiaPeach]

Okay, so who from the old board are you?

 

He's not gonna tell you. The guy's a hideout, otherwise he would've kept his old name.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Lol Gibbers, way to assume things. The goal of the organization should be to win a championship. Maintaining the status quo won't lead to one in the short term. The payroll issues and lack of farm is also going to mean they won't win it long term, either. So the best bet to win is to go for it this year. Do i have to spell it out for you? Btw, only angry old Gibbers would criticize the kent for cone deal.

 

I could be on board with an all-in move.

 

Just as long as the Jays front office promises to make the following 10-15 years unbearable for fans, thus forcing Rogers to sell the team and move them to Brooklyn where they belong.

[AdamDunnHatesBaseball]

I could be on board with an all-in move.

 

Just as long as the Jays front office promises to make the following 10-15 years unbearable for fans, thus forcing Rogers to sell the team and move them to Brooklyn where they belong.

 

Yes, because unloading the farm guarantees 15 years of being terrible. You act like if they had Kent after '93 it would have been enough to make them a contender all those years.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Yes, because unloading the farm guarantees 15 years of being terrible. You act like if they had Kent after '93 it would have been enough to make them a contender all those years.

 

They wouldn't have been a contender. Just like they're not one right now.

 

It just would've made the team a little more palatable to the fans that need to see W's, otherwise they're outta here. But they're still huge baseball fans.....bwahahahahah

[AdamDunnHatesBaseball]

They wouldn't have been a contender. Just like they're not one right now.

 

It just would've made the team a little more palatable to the fans that need to see W's, otherwise they're outta here. But they're still huge baseball fans.....bwahahahahah

 

You are a strange person. What made you so angry? Was it all those years as a mall cop or was it losing your dream job as a corrections officer?

[GeorgiaPeach]

You are a strange person. What made you so angry? Was it all those years as a mall cop or was it losing your dream job as a corrections officer?

 

I actually just got hired on as a Windsor copper.

 

And I wouldn't classify myself as being strange for not wanting to be pretend friends with fake baseball fans, like others do.

[DuckDuckGose]

McCarthy could be a good idea, especially given Towers is pretty damn stupid and could be had for (relatively) cheap.

 

Mccarthy would be a decent addition. I wonder if Aaron Hill or Prado could also be included.