GDT(3/3): Cleveland Indians @ Toronto Blue Jays - Happ vs. Salazar - 7:07 PM ET

[jaysblue]

Holy crap, the Red Sox lost 2 of 3 to the Twins @ Minnesota, the sky be fallin'!

 

Phil Hughes rocked today, but the BP blew it for him ugh!

[Angrioter]

Janssen's xFIP today was 5.71. He was awful.

Janssen "This is my offering to the baseball Gods. Thanks for the BABIP help"

http://escuela2punto0.educarex.es/Humanidades/Etica_Filosofia_Ciudadania/cibernous/autores/platon/images/sacrificio.gif

[ElNik2013]

NEVER!!!!!! I still have my jersey!!

 

 

See, you have a biased opinion. Escobar wasn't trade because the team thought he was crap, he was traded for PR reasons. As I said, Reyes didn't offer himself the contract he signed and Reyes didn't make AA/Beeston trade for him nor did he make these 2 give away Escobar for PR reasons.

[Spoonovic]

Some Rogers suit probably demanded that AA trades Yunel.

[NorthOf49]

Janssen will never be as good as Santos, he just doesn't have the velo or the swinging strikes. He's still pretty good though.

[ElNik2013]

That is a rarity.

 

All of this pink s*** related to "breast cancer awareness" (note that very little money actually goes to cancer research) makes me f***ing sick.

 

Susan G Komen is the devil personified.

 

You can't say negative about breast cancer charities to anyone in public because you'll be labeled as a woman hater. It's just a massive scam. They've created this culture of guilt/shame. Would never donate a f***ing dime to any of these organizations.

 

 

Worry about the money YOU donate, if you do. Otherwise, live and let live.

 

As long as they're donating voluntarily, no one should have a problem with this. Funny how no one wonders how efficient governments are with the money we "donate" to them...lol.

[The_DH]

Some Rogers suit probably demanded that AA trades Yunel.

 

Yep.

[S33n]

Escobar got off very lightly, he is lucky the media didn't take it and runnnnn a marathon with it.

[Angrioter]

Janssen will never be as good as Santos, he just doesn't have the velo or the swinging strikes. He's still pretty good though.

 

Now, it's time to evaluate the results:

Janssen - Success

Santos - Failure

[ElNik2013]

Escobar got off very lightly, he is lucky the media didn't take it and runnnnn a marathon with it.

 

 

 

I happen to suspect that AA was told to try to get rid of him without having to eat his contract. Sad, in terms of giving away an asset, but true.

[jaysblue]

Janssen will never be as good as Santos, he just doesn't have the velo or the swinging strikes. He's still pretty good though.

 

Stuff wise, yes Janssen will never have as good of stuff as Santos does. Though in terms of results, there is no debate.

[kgm1]

I happen to suspect that AA was told to try to get rid of him without having to eat his contract. Sad, in terms of giving away an asset, but true.

 

I firmly believe rogers told the Beest to get rid of him . AA did his best not to eat the money.

[The_DH]

Stuff wise, yes Janssen will never have as good of stuff as Santos does. Though in terms of results, there is no debate.

 

The difference is control and consistency.

[kgm1]

Stuff wise, yes Janssen will never have as good of stuff as Santos does. Though in terms of results, there is no debate.

 

You could have the same debate Buehrle vs Morrow. It is all about command. Buehrle and Janssen have great command of below average pitches. Santos and Morrow when they have their command and aren't on the DL are better but that doesn't happen often enough.

[Anemic0ffense]

Unreal... The Santos/Morrow ball garglers will never understand. The advanced stats AREN'T ALWAYS RIGHT. Santos couldn't hold Janssen's jock, and you're all just mad.

[guylaroche5]

Unreal... The Santos/Morrow ball garglers will never understand. The advanced stats AREN'T ALWAYS RIGHT. Santos couldn't hold Janssen's jock, and you're all just mad.

 

the advanced stats have supported janssen for the past 2 seasons........

[shortstop]

good game by Happ, surprised me - didn't think he had a game like last night left in him with the jays...question is can he locate his pitches like he did last night...history has shown no but we'll see what the next game brings...

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Janssen will never be as good as Santos, he just doesn't have the velo or the swinging strikes. He's still pretty good though.

 

Janssen is and has always been better than Sergio Santos...

 

Jesus guys. Santos cannot throw strikes. He's done as a Jay. He's not even in close to Janssen.

 

At the end of the day, Sergio Santos threw 43 innings over 3 seasons as a Toronto Blue Jay. He constantly failed in high leverage situations and padded his numbers in low leverage situations. He was a massive bust. Thankfully we didn't give up anything for him and we didn't pay him that much.

[Caper]

It's weird when you win a series and still feel like you lost because of how bad we got killed in that second game.

[jaysblue]

You could have the same debate Buehrle vs Morrow. It is all about command. Buehrle and Janssen have great command of below average pitches. Santos and Morrow when they have their command and aren't on the DL are better but that doesn't happen often enough.

 

Yeah Ken. No doubt when Morrow is healthy and everything is going right, he's a great pitcher and much better than MB. We saw what Morrow was capable of in 2010, 2011, and 2012. It's unfortunate that he hasn't been able to stay healthy and be durable throughout his career. I've always been a big Brandon Morrow fan - even bought his jersey back in 2010 haha seriously. Thing is the past two seasons, he hasn't stayed healthy and has been inconsistent on the mound. The results haven't been there and it seems like the Jays are always banking on his potential every ST to pitch like a No. 2 starter, which as we saw is a huge mistake. You can't rely on Morrow to pitch like a front of the rotation guy since he never can stay healthy.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

You actually believe low leverage vs high padding?

 

?

 

His numbers in save situations have been brutal during his career. The amount of baserunners he's allowed in those situations is staggering.

 

Baseball players are not robots. Nerves come into play.

[Anemic0ffense]

You actually believe low leverage vs high padding?

 

Yes JFaS. Ball players are human. I know, shocking! Santos killed it last year when we were out of it. It's clear he's not good under pressure.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Anemic can you just go somewhere else please. I don't want to start a fight.

 

I think they're talking about Obama in the off-topic forum

[eastcoastjaysfan]

I just looked and the numbers do support you. I just can't buy the nerves thing. If it isn't just random variation then he may be doing something different with runners on? Dunno. Sample is probably too small to mean anything though.

 

I really don't want to pull out the "have you ever even played baseball" line because it's so cringe worthy.... But come on dude...

 

Pressure impacts performance with everything in life... You make mistakes when your blood is flowing...

 

Terrence Ross goes from being one of the more promising young players in the NBA during the regular season to being a complete gas can overnight for the Raps in the playoffs? Crowd noise and pressure clearly got to him. It happens in every sport. It happens when you're taking super important exams. It happens when you're giving a speech in front of a classroom full of people...

 

You have to step back and look at the human element sometimes.

 

Also in response to your sample size comment: You are the one who was always pimping Santos' stats to me over the past few years when the sample was miniscule! You don't claim SSS when the numbers support your case but you claim SSS when they don't!

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Bit it shouldnt at this level and Santos does not seem to be rattled emotionally at all.

 

What do you mean he doesn't seem to be rattled emotionally at all? What are you basing this on? His facial expressions?

 

The numbers (albeit in a small sample) show that he sucks in high leverage situations! You just said that yourself!

[The_DH]

I really don't want to pull out the "have you ever even played baseball" line because it's so cringe worthy.... But come on dude...

 

Pressure impacts performance with everything in life... You make mistakes when your blood is flowing...

 

Terrence Ross goes from being one of the more promising young players in the NBA during the regular season to being a complete gas can overnight for the Raps in the playoffs? Crowd noise and pressure clearly got to him. It happens in every sport. It happens when you're taking super important exams. It happens when you're giving a speech in front of a classroom full of people...

 

You have to step back and look at the human element sometimes.

 

Also in response to your sample size comment: You are the one who was always pimping Santos' stats to me over the past few years when the sample was miniscule! You don't claim SSS when the numbers support your case but you claim SSS when they don't!

 

Totally agree with you. Pressure effects players, some step up, some get crushed, some don't notice it. It's hard to quantify but it exists. It happens to us in our lives so why shouldnt it with baseball?

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Practice a speech in front of your mom.

 

Deliver a speech in front of a room of investors and your managing director.

 

It's not the same.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

They don't show that he sucks. They how that he HAS sucked. Huge difference. I wouldn't expect it to continue.

 

He's another year older with serious injury concerns. Step away from your projections for a second and look at the person. He cannot stay healthy and cannot consistently throw strikes. In every sport there are always enigmas who never realize their potential. Santos clearly is one of these guys.

 

Carlos Marmol in 2010 is the perfect example. Fantastic xFIP but clearly had massive control concerns. The older he got, the quicker all of those concerns caught up to him and he went full gascan (likely more wear and tear on the arm resulting in velocity dropping, etc) . I have no doubt that you would've been saying the exact same things back then about Marmol that you are saying about Santos now (actually, you should've been more confident in projecting Marmol as he had a much larger track record).

 

Projections are not fool proof. Life happens. Santos clearly shows signs of breaking down. If he's still in baseball in 3 years I'd be shocked.

[Dr. Dinger]

But it shouldnt at this level and Santos does not seem to be rattled emotionally at all.

 

I would disagree, he looked extremely rattled in the interview after his most recent blowup, before he was placed on the DL (which I called, by the way). He's inside his own head at this point.

[HERPDERP]

I find it funny when super huge sabermetric guys like Keith Law completely dismiss any kind of emotional or subjective factors when it comes to baseball.