Joey Votto: "The stat I value most is wRC+"

[Grant77]

Which they can improve by understanding the game. If JPA understood that walks were good and Ks were bad, he'd improve a fair amount.

 

EVery player understands that. For me as a player, I'd find stuff like pitch fx more useful as a tool to understand how to approach at-bats. Sometimes you just don't realize all of those curveballs are out of the zone. Just thinking you need to walk more and K less doesn't do anything.

[GD]

Votto can cheer all he wants about wRC+.. but it's his responsibility to drive in runs. With Choo gone, the Reds lineup faces serious regression, and Billy Hamilton will have to hit in other to replace Choo's loss. No wonder the PECOTA rankings have the Reds missing the playoffs.

 

Cincy didn't give him that big contract to just draw BBs all the time.. they expect him to hit 30/100 every year, especially in that hitter's haven of Great American Ballpark.

 

This is a bannable offense. Seriously, can we ban high85 now please?

[G-Snarls]

So maybe in 15-20 years they will hire him as the GM and/or President just because he is Canadian. And he will take us to the promise land because on a completely unrelated note, he actually knows his s***. I'll be patiently waiting.

 

No, no. We'll get him as a far-past-his-prime DH, with metal knees like a modern day Frank Thomas Robo-hitter.

[LunchBox]

Which they can improve by understanding the game. If JPA understood that walks were good and Ks were bad, he'd improve a fair amount.

 

-Votto is intelligent/ JPA is dumb (A)

-Votto understands derived measures of performance/ JPA doesn't understand basic counting stats (

-Votto performs well/ JPA performs poorly ©

 

There is cause and effect between A and C, A and B. There is a positive correlation between B and C but B does not cause C.

[John_Havok]

EVery player understands that. For me as a player, I'd find stuff like pitch fx more useful as a tool to understand how to approach at-bats. Sometimes you just don't realize all of those curveballs are out of the zone. Just thinking you need to walk more and K less doesn't do anything.

 

A valid point. However he's had 4 seasons to improve his eye, or his realization that some of the curveballs aren't strikes...and failed. He also sucks against the fastball, slider, and change. Pitchers know he chases so they don't throw him strikes. His swing rate on balls out of the strike zone has increased every year

[saskjayfan]

Every other player should take note.

 

 

Adam Lind was tied for 31st in all of the MLB last year in wRC+ with Carlos Beltran and everyone on this board wants to get rid of him..lol

[LunchBox]

Adam Lind was tied for 31st in all of the MLB last year in wRC+ with Carlos Beltran and everyone on this board wants to get rid of him..lol

 

No the board wants to find him a platoon partner not named Moises Sierra.

[saskjayfan]

Not true. He's a useful player when used in the right way.

 

Fair enough, maybe I'm thinking back to last year when he started 0 for 25 or whatever it was. He really didn't face many lefties early on last year, but with the injuries and lack of depth they had to plug him in. I agree, with finding a right handed bat other than Sierra though.

[jaysfan2014]

Moises Sierra can be useful if used properly as a DH type and not an OF. Although I imagine he will get plenty of reps in the OF in the spring to see if at least can improve..

[jaysfan2014]

Now regarding wRC+, the numbers are much better to evaluate if a player has enough plate appearances to qualify.

 

Guys who rank highly with wRC+ and are franchise players include Mike Trout, Miguel Cabrera, Chris Davis, Joey Votto, Andrew McCutchen, David Ortiz and Paul Goldschmidt.

 

However, these numbers can change in a season, and last season's stats can't always be taken with a grain of salt. Other things to consider include health, age/injury related regression or progression, etc.

[awsomest]

Now regarding wRC+, the numbers are much better to evaluate if a player has enough plate appearances to qualify.

 

Guys who rank highly with wRC+ and are franchise players include Mike Trout, Miguel Cabrera, Chris Davis, Joey Votto, Andrew McCutchen, David Ortiz and Paul Goldschmidt.

 

However, these numbers can change in a season, and last season's stats can't always be taken with a grain of salt. Other things to consider include health, age/injury related regression or progression, etc.

 

wut

[GD]

This is a bannable offense. Seriously, can we ban high85 now please?

 

This should seriously be a bannable offense.

 

is it a beef ting?

[GD]

Moises Sierra can be useful if used properly as a DH type and not an OF. Although I imagine he will get plenty of reps in the OF in the spring to see if at least can improve..

 

YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH oh my god this has to violate the TOS

[Nox]

Now regarding wRC+, the numbers are much better to evaluate if a player has enough plate appearances to qualify.

 

Guys who rank highly with wRC+ and are franchise players include Mike Trout, Miguel Cabrera, Chris Davis, Joey Votto, Andrew McCutchen, David Ortiz and Paul Goldschmidt.

 

However, these numbers can change in a season, and last season's stats can't always be taken with a grain of salt. Other things to consider include health, age/injury related regression or progression, etc.

 

Don't worry about these other boobs. I'm listening. Can you expand on your thoughts here a bit?

[jaysfan2014]

I should also point out any wRC+ of 120 or better is considered excellent, 100 being great, and 60 being average.

 

One other consideration is that the + in the wRC+ also is park and league adjusted. Guys like Chris Davis, Joey Votto, David Ortiz and Paul Goldschmidt likely see their wRC+ inflated/deflated by the ballparks they play in, and playing in the AL or NL.

[jaysfan2014]

Actually, Arencibia is below average at 57. Goins is at 62.

Rasmus, Lind, EE, Bautista and Reyes all ranked above average.

[gruber92]

which they can improve by understanding the game. If jpa understood that walks were good and ks were bad, he'd improve a fair amount.

 

lol..

[gruber92]

You guys are pretty f***ed up. Why is it so important to some that a player(s) understands sabermetrics?

[LunchBox]

I should also point out any wRC+ of 120 or better is considered excellent, 100 being great, and 60 being average.

 

One other consideration is that the + in the wRC+ also is park and league adjusted. Guys like Chris Davis, Joey Votto, David Ortiz and Paul Goldschmidt likely see their wRC+ inflated/deflated by the ballparks they play in, and playing in the AL or NL.

 

You should post this comment here, we'll observe the responses as a social experiment. I have a feeling you might even like it there and decide to stay.

[LunchBox]

You guys are pretty f***ed up. Why is it so important to some that a player(s) understands sabermetrics?

 

f***, guess I was wrong, my apologies JFaS.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Votto can cheer all he wants about wRC+.. but it's his responsibility to drive in runs. With Choo gone, the Reds lineup faces serious regression, and Billy Hamilton will have to hit in other to replace Choo's loss. No wonder the PECOTA rankings have the Reds missing the playoffs.

 

Cincy didn't give him that big contract to just draw BBs all the time.. they expect him to hit 30/100 every year, especially in that hitter's haven of Great American Ballpark.

 

That's actually a good point. At the end of the day the Reds FO wants to win ball games, and if they're not winning and Votto isn't driving in plenty of runs it's going to come back to haunt them. It doesn't matter how many BB's he's getting if they are losing. The fans will look at stats like RBI, HR, RISP and turn against the front office for signing him. That's how fanbases work when a team is doing poorly.

[Nox]

That's actually a good point. At the end of the day the Reds FO wants to win ball games, and if they're not winning and Votto isn't driving in plenty of runs it's going to come back to haunt them. It doesn't matter how many BB's he's getting if they are losing. The fans will look at stats like RBI, HR, RISP and turn against the front office for signing him. That's how fanbases work when a team is doing poorly.

 

How are you so bad at posting? Serious question.

[reedjohnsonfan]

lol, no it isn't.

 

If the Reds are losing and Votto isn't driving in runs or hitting for power, a very large portion of the fanbase will get upset with the signing. I don't know what's so hard for you to comprehend here. Normal fans don't go on fangraphs and look at wrc+.

[havok24]

That's actually a good point. At the end of the day the Reds FO wants to win ball games, and if they're not winning and Votto isn't driving in plenty of runs it's going to come back to haunt them. It doesn't matter how many BB's he's getting if they are losing. The fans will look at stats like RBI, HR, RISP and turn against the front office for signing him. That's how fanbases work when a team is doing poorly.

 

http://i40.tinypic.com/mvmhbo.jpg

[reedjohnsonfan]

Right so, like I said I'm talking about how the fanbase will react. 3 posters in a row seemed to miss that point. Maybe I should've been more clear?

[Smokey]

That's actually a good point. At the end of the day the Reds FO wants to win ball games, and if they're not winning and Votto isn't driving in plenty of runs it's going to come back to haunt them. It doesn't matter how many BB's he's getting if they are losing. The fans will look at stats like RBI, HR, RISP and turn against the front office for signing him. That's how fanbases work when a team is doing poorly.

 

http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1366/35/1366352331072.gif

[reedjohnsonfan]

http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1366/35/1366352331072.gif

 

Make that 4 posters now. Wow you guys are pretty bad at reading. That's ok.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Reds FO: Joey you need to become worse, so our fans like us more.

 

Who said that?

[Nox]

Normal fans don't go on fangraphs and look at wrc+.

 

Almost time to retire this narrative. WAR (of which stuff similar to wRC+ is a pillar) is becoming more mainstream every day. It's on broadcasts and on ESPN's player pages.

[havok24]

A few things:

 

1) Who gives a s***?

 

2) The post you quoted didn't even say that. He said Votto's job is to drive in runs. That's incorrect. Votto's job is to be the best hitter he can be.

 

3) You habitually play devil's advocate by agreeing with horrible posts. I recommend being a bit more judicious when you do this.

 

This.