Jays have tried to get Ian Kinsler and Brett Anderson this off season

[Olerud363]

Off the top of my head, they've given significant OF innings to Ackley, Morse, Ibanez, Bay, and Thames in the last couple years. I don't even want to know what they do to evaluate defense.

 

The problem is none of these guys hit as expected. I would have no problem with any of them in left if they hit enough. It just seems silly to complain about a left fielders defense when they are all OPSing in the .600s.

 

Now if the Mariners are thinking that these guys are defensive aces and don't need to hit... well that's obviously a huge problem. But I think they are projecting these guys to hit... and they don't.

 

I guess I really don't like putting limitations on players either way. Captain obvious... but the "super scout" mentality occassionally creeps back into this board. Silly little scouting observations without putting the entire skill set into context. The "this guy has no speed, instincts, and arm"... seems like the kind of thing AA would say. It's the overall picture that's important. If the guy opses 1000 who cares about his D. If the guy is an obvious ace capable of saving 25 runs in center field... then he doesn't need to hit as much.

[G-Snarls]

Even Ken writing about this:

 

[G-Snarls]

Rosenthal:

 

-

 

As for the players whom the Rangers would have received from the Jays for Kinsler, sources offer conflicting accounts.

 

The Rangers had targeted Toronto first baseman Edwin Encarnacion early in the offseason and later sent Kinsler to the Detroit Tigers - a team not on his no-trade list - for first baseman Prince Fielder. But the Jays would not move Encarnacion, sources said

 

Santos was part of the Kinsler discussions, as was left-hander Ricky Romero, according to one source. The Rangers'€™ goal in such a trade was to clear the remaining $62 million on Kinsler'€™s contract to pursue other moves, that source said.

[G-Snarls]

Santos and Romero for Kinsler?!?!?!?! Done in a nanosecond.

 

f*** me if that was the potential deal and f*** Kinsler and his no trade clause and f*** the Rangers too, LOL

 

Upgrade at 2B, AND dump Romero's salary? Damn that would have been sweet.

[Sammy225]

Rosenthal:

 

-

 

As for the players whom the Rangers would have received from the Jays for Kinsler, sources offer conflicting accounts.

 

The Rangers had targeted Toronto first baseman Edwin Encarnacion early in the offseason and later sent Kinsler to the Detroit Tigers - a team not on his no-trade list - for first baseman Prince Fielder. But the Jays would not move Encarnacion, sources said

 

Santos was part of the Kinsler discussions, as was left-hander Ricky Romero, according to one source. The Rangers'€™ goal in such a trade was to clear the remaining $62 million on Kinsler'€™s contract to pursue other moves, that source said.

 

Feels good that AA has enough sense not to move EE. Would have been nice to get Romero the f*** out of here though.

[G-Snarls]

Feels good that AA has enough sense not to move EE. Would have been nice to get Romero the f*** out of here though.

 

AA is better than 90% on here give him credit for.

[jays_fever]

I still would love to know why Toronto is on a lot of no trade clauses, while places like Detroit aren't. For ball during the cold months sure but homerism aside, there's probably only about 6 or 7 cities in the MLB that can match/come close to Toronto during the summer time.

[KingKat]

AA is better than 90% on here give him credit for.

 

As frustrating as the inactivity has been, it's nice that AA at least seems to have gone back to being sensible. He shouldn't have had to learn that lesson the hard way though. On the balance, he's probably made more good moves than bad but his legacy will largely be shaped by what he did last year.

[Dylan]

I still would love to know why Toronto is on a lot of no trade clauses, while places like Detroit aren't. For ball during the cold months sure but homerism aside, there's probably only about 6 or 7 cities in the MLB that can match/come close to Toronto during the summer time.

Just the thought of Canada being a different country is enough to turn some players away, I'm assuming. Even if Toronto can be argued as a much better place to live than half the other team cities.

 

- Travel hassle

- Different countries in general (moving families etc.)

- Higher taxes

- roger centre

- perception and lack of knowledge of Canada

- weather in early months?

- Less media fame?

[KingKat]

I still would love to know why Toronto is on a lot of no trade clauses, while places like Detroit aren't. For ball during the cold months sure but homerism aside, there's probably only about 6 or 7 cities in the MLB that can match/come close to Toronto during the summer time.

 

As trivial at it seems, I think a lot of it is merely coddled players not wanting to go through customs on a regular basis. For players who care about their defense, the turf is a big turnoff as well (even though it's probably offset by an offensive boost).

[bronson44]

I still would love to know why Toronto is on a lot of no trade clauses, while places like Detroit aren't. For ball during the cold months sure but homerism aside, there's probably only about 6 or 7 cities in the MLB that can match/come close to Toronto during the summer time.

 

Lack of team success and the god awful turf.

Why would any player want to potentially shorten their careers by playing on green concrete? DeRosa talked about the turf and how much players dislike it and someone in the SOTF thread said Beeston alluded to how it is a major roadblock in signing free agents. My knees hurt just watching players run on that s***. f*** the Argos.

[G-Snarls]

There are obviously many factors but not sure how many care about the turf. (probably some)

 

Tampa has no trouble signing (lower-mid end) free agents, with the players knowing full well they'll be playing 90 games a year on artifical turf (81 at Trop + 8-9 at RC). And they often sign for less than marklet value. Obviously factors like the winning culture and playing for Joe Maddon must play a role in that.

[aselvana]

Santos and Romero for Kinsler?!?!?!?! Done in a nanosecond.

 

f*** me if that was the potential deal and f*** Kinsler and his no trade clause and f*** the Rangers too, LOL

 

Upgrade at 2B, AND dump Romero's salary? Damn that would have been sweet.

 

i dunno i think ramus had to be involved

 

Santos, an oft-injured reliever, and Romero, a starter who spent most of last season in the minors, would not have been nearly enough for Kinsler.

[Grant77]

If he can handle second he should be able to handle left. It's incredibly stupid to put this kind of limitation on a player.

 

IF he can hit enough for left then a smart organization would work with him. A stupid organization, an arrogant organization would say "he has below average speed instincts and arm" and put limitations on him.

 

The big issue is his bat. But if the bat plays (which I'm not convinced it will) then a smart organization does the opposite of what you suggest.

 

Nice to see my personal troll came to the new forum.

 

Ackley didn't have the necessary skills to perform well in the outfield and they tried it anyways. It was a disaster over a decent sample size, there's no logic in continuing to pursue a fruitless venture. There are teams that value Ackley as a 2B and the Mariners could fill more pressing needs with what they get back.

[GNick]

Anderson's medical couldn't have looked good because Jays were aware of his injury history before talking trade for him.

[G-Snarls]

i dunno i think ramus had to be involved

 

Wilner now says that no position players were involved FWIW

 

Regardless it didn't happen. I'm just happy that AA is trying to improve SP and 2B and hasn't made any dumb trades.

[Smokey]

AA is better than 90% on here give him credit for.

 

The way I see it he did a pretty good job initially in setting the ground work for a good foundation. But then he mindlessly put an axe through it in order to prematurely "go for it" and ended up with a 75 win team that is now essentially behind the eight ball. IMO having a good team "on paper" has earned him more credit than he actually deserves.

[Frenchsoup]

There are obviously many factors but not sure how many care about the turf. (probably some)

 

Tampa has no trouble signing (lower-mid end) free agents, with the players knowing full well they'll be playing 90 games a year on artifical turf (81 at Trop + 8-9 at RC). And they often sign for less than marklet value. Obviously factors like the winning culture and playing for Joe Maddon must play a role in that.

 

 

Tampa has infield cut outs though so they at least get truer bounces and don't have to stand on that green s*** all game.

[KingKat]

Tampa has infield cut outs though so they at least get truer bounces and don't have to stand on that green s*** all game.

 

They also stick to the shalow end of the free agent pool so it's not like they are pursuing the kind of players that are turning down the Jays. The original point is kinda moot.

[G-Snarls]

They also stick to the shalow end of the free agent pool so it's not like they are pursuing the kind of players that are turning down the Jays. The original point is kinda moot.

 

Point well taken. They weren't in on Cano or Fielder or anyone like that.

[Fearthedoc]

f***. I love Ian Kinsler

 

NICE. KINSLER FOR KIPNIS in DDL.

[NorthOf49]

NICE. KINSLER FOR KIPNIS in DDL.

I wouldn't be averse to a 2-for-2 including Kinsler and Kipnis. Not sure what the other pieces would be though. Maybe a SP or OF upgrade in my favour.

[Fearthedoc]

I wouldn't be averse to a 2-for-2 including Kinsler and Kipnis. Not sure what the other pieces would be though. Maybe a SP or OF upgrade in my favour.

 

I'll keep this in mind and see if I can come up with something.

[Olerud363]

Nice to see my personal troll came to the new forum.

 

Ackley didn't have the necessary skills to perform well in the outfield and they tried it anyways. It was a disaster over a decent sample size, there's no logic in continuing to pursue a fruitless venture. There are teams that value Ackley as a 2B and the Mariners could fill more pressing needs with what they get back.

 

You apparently don't understand the meaning of trolling. Trolling is fishing for a reaction independent of what one really thinks. Trolls change their opinion just to get another person going. I on the ohter hand truly and sincerely disagree with many of your posts. Hard to believe isn't it?? Someone disagrees with a genius such as yourself.

 

Either Ackley helps the team win or he doesn't. And no problem if he doesn't and is better used as trade bait.

 

But if he doesn't help the team, it's not because "he doesn't have the necessary skills to perform well in the outfield" he doesn't help the team because the total picture is below average, he doesn't hit enough for an outfielder and doesn't have ace defensive skills to make up for the bat.

 

If (and it's a big if) Ackley can hit enough for an leftfielder his defense will come around, or atleast to what passes as a leftfielder. Or are you saying Manny Ramirez has some special skill, some genetic advantage that Ackley does not have??

[GNick]

Shi tweeting it was Romero and Santos for Kinsler

[Brenner]

Shi tweeting it was Romero and Santos for Kinsler

 

That is much better than my Romero for Uggla idea. Too bad Kinsler said no.

[Frenchsoup]

Shi tweeting it was Romero and Santos for Kinsler

 

that would have been amazing for the jays

[Dr. Dinger]

I wouldn't be averse to a 2-for-2 including Kinsler and Kipnis. Not sure what the other pieces would be though. Maybe a SP or OF upgrade in my favour.

 

Consider my interest piqued, vis-a-vis Carpenter.

[Nabru]

Shi tweeting it was Romero and Santos for Kinsler

 

Ouch, my balls.

 

Would've been a steal.

[G-Snarls]

Ouch, my balls.

 

Would've been a steal.

 

Anything that gets rid of Ricky and frees up 7.5M a year for 2 years is a steal