Interesting article by Griffin of the Star on AA future

[The_DH]

I can't seem to copy it. Have a look over there but is not complimentary to AA.

[The_DH]

http://read.thestar.com/?origref=#!/article/52bf4851ec06913739065626-blue-jays-alex-anthopoulos-on-thin-ice-griffin

[kcjaysfan]

This one?

 

Blue Jays’ Alex Anthopoulos on thin ice: Griffin

Fourth straight losing season would likely end GM’s Blue Jay tenure, but seems unlikely. Pursuit of Masahiro Tanaka, Matt Garza, Ubaldo Jiminez could help.

 

The honeymoon could be over for Blue Jays general manager Alex Anthopoulos.

 

No longer is he viewed as baseball’s Boy Wonder, as he was after taking over from J.P. Ricciardi on Oct. 3, 2009. No longer is he perceived as the game’s rising star, a 32-year-old with unlimited vision and the vigour of youth. No longer is he looked upon as one step ahead, ready to re-invent the GM position.

 

No, it seems others have adjusted to him faster than he has adjusted to them, and after four seasons the clock on his tenure is clearly ticking. Early, he was renowned for his knowledge of all 29 competitors — what skills they sought, what players they were willing to offer. He could call GMs to discuss trades he had no intention of making, simply for the knowledge, the information. It was gold.

 

Whenever he needed a third wheel to finish up a trade, he knew where to go to find the missing piece. He was the ringmaster with information as his whip. It was radical, game-changing stuff.

 

It was just a year ago that Anthopoulos shocked the baseball world by swinging blockbuster trades with the Marlins and Mets, signing Melky Cabrera and hiring the overlooked John Gibbons to manage a group that was a Las Vegas favourite. The national media fawned over his aggressive tactics and closed-mouth approach to dealing with other teams and the public. If info leaked, it was the other guy.

 

Ultimately, his team fell on its face and there was little, if any, sympathy within the GM fraternity. When right-hander Doug Fister was traded to the Nats in November, Anthopoulos was surprised and indicated the Tigers surely knew he was interested, that he would have liked a last chance to bid on the talented starter. Would he have been given the opportunity two years ago? Perhaps.

 

One executive at the recent winter meetings indicated that other GMs now realize that when they are talking to Anthopoulos about a potential trade, it may just be information gathering. Some have become more careful in their conversations. Maybe it’s time to adjust.

 

In Anthopoulos’s three seasons as GM since transforming Ricciardi’s 80-82 team of 2009 into a faux-contender at 85-77 in 2010, Anthopoulos has constructed teams that have posted win totals of 81, 73 and 74. He needs a winning season in 2014 or he will likely be fired.

 

The fact is that since Baseball America began keeping a database on MLB GMs in 1950, only two have put up a winning record in their first season with a team followed by four straight losing records — and still kept their jobs. Anthopoulos can equal that dubious precedent in 2014.

 

The two who did it were Sal Bando, with the 1992-96 Milwaukee Brewers, and Jim Beattie, with the 1996-2000 Montreal Expos. Bando survived another two-plus losing seasons in Milwaukee before offering his resignation in August of 1999. He survived primarily because he was a local hero, a third baseman in the team’s glory years. As for Beattie, he stayed on through 2001 because the Expos were in the process of being contracted by MLB and nobody else wanted the job. When the commissioner’s office was forced to purchase the franchise and keep it afloat after contraction failed, Beattie was replaced by Omar Minaya, who stayed until 2004 when the Expos moved to Washington, D.C.

 

If the Jays do indeed post a losing record in 2014, Anthopoulos, who grew up in Montreal, could join Beattie on the short list of infamy. The irony is that Beattie was the GM Anthopoulos convinced to give a kid with no experience an internship in Expos player development, a foot in the door that led him to where he is today. Anthopoulos did not forget. Beattie is currently a Jays major-league scout and trusted adviser to the GM.

 

Of course, that perception of failure could all change in the next 10 months. With four months until opening day and 162 games of the regular season to follow, Anthopoulos has enough time to make necessary changes. He might start by competing hard for Japanese right-hander Masahiro Tanaka or, failing that, signing a free agent starter such as Matt Garza or Ubaldo Jimenez.

 

The Jays are not that far away from being a contender. This, after all, is a team that was odds-on a year ago, that had the country excited on the basis of huge trades with the Marlins and the Mets, bringing in a competitive payroll and big-name players. The team has not changed dramatically in terms of core personnel. That perception of failure would change with a winning record. But until then, Anthopoulos’ tenure over four seasons has been a tremendous disappointment.

 

How does A.A.’s record stack up against other Jays GMs over 37 seasons? That list includes Peter Bavasi (1977), Pat Gillick (1978-94), Gord Ash (1994-2001), Ricciardi (2002-09) and now Anthopoulos. He’s fallen back and needs to separate again.

 

In 2010, despite being forced into trading Roy Halladay and with only the Phillies as a true trading partner, Anthopoulos emerged as the first Jays GM to begin his tenure with a winning record. His passion, Canadianism, outside-the-box thinking and thirst for information on other teams’ needs made him a rock star. He is now just one of the boys, with Ash and Ricciardi, when it comes to judging his four years at the helm.

 

Putting Gillick aside — because his teams were basically the product of an unfair expansion draft — here are the win totals for the previous two Jays GMs after four years and five years: Ash, 301/385; Ricciardi 311/398. Anthopoulos, with 313 wins after four, needs a season of 85 victories to equal Ricciardi, the much-maligned Worcester, Mass., native who claimed upon his arrival in November, 2001 that he had come to teach Toronto fans about baseball.

 

Anthopoulos, like his predecessor, has found out Jays fans are knowledgeable and hard to fool.

[ElNik2013]

He was doing fine till the Happ trade. Since then, he's arguably been the worst GM. By the way, next year would be AA's 3rd straight losing season, not 4th.

 

Another thing is that, let's say that he signs a FA pitcher instead of trading more prospects for one and the team wins 84 games, makes 2 good picks in next year's draft and some of the low minors prospects continue to march towards becoming legit prospects, I could definitely see an extension.

[Angrioter]

Ultimately, his team fell on its face and there was little, if any, sympathy within the GM fraternity. When right-hander Doug Fister was traded to the Nats in November, Anthopoulos was surprised and indicated the Tigers surely knew he was interested, that he would have liked a last chance to bid on the talented starter. Would he have been given the opportunity two years ago? Perhaps.

 

I know that we haven't much good trade pieces in our farm (Stroman and Sanchez) but the Nats package was s*** ...

AA only has good relationship with Jeff Luhnow and Loria lol

[The_DH]

It sounds like other GMs see talking to AA as a waste of time. I didn't see that one happening.

[ElNik2013]

I know that we haven't much good trade pieces in our farm (Stroman and Sanchez) but the Nats package was s*** ...

AA only has good relationship with Jeff Luhnow and Loria lol

 

 

If Dombrowski is letting his dislike for AA or any GM prevent him from possibly getting a better return in a trade, then that's should be at least problematic for Tigers fans.

[Anemic0ffense]

If Dombrowski is letting his dislike for AA or any GM prevent him from possibly getting a better return in a trade, then that's should be at least problematic for Tigers fans.

 

I was just gonna say that

[connorp]

If Dombrowski is letting his dislike for AA or any GM prevent him from

possibly getting a better return in a trade, then that's should be at least problematic for Tigers fans.

 

Yeah, i mean one would assume the GM of a billion dollar enterprise couldnt be so amateurish..but maybe theres truth to it.. Impossible to know the GM frat behind closed doors

[ElNik2013]

Yeah, i mean one would assume the GM of a billion dollar enterprise couldnt be so amateurish..but maybe theres truth to it.. Impossible to know the GM frat behind closed doors

 

 

You never know with GM's. This is why I don't get into criticizing AA for not giving up D'Arnaud + Syndergaard for Latos, as one example, since we don't that 1. He didn't offer them and 2. that the Padres would've considered that a better package than what they got.

[JaysAllMighty]

It sounds like other GMs see talking to AA as a waste of time. I didn't see that one happening.

 

I also mentioned this before about AA:

 

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/1992-Is-AA-a-Good-GM?p=165604&viewfull=1#post165604

[Angrioter]

AA is a workhorse, lives and breaths baseball 24/7. A workaholic. I like that. But, he's young and cocky of his own intelligence thinking he can be smarter then anyone. He needs to learn more about finesse on how to handle other GMs in a respectful way.

 

Many GMs are simply staying away from him in fear of being ridiculed in a one sided trade. He needs to get back in the game and being able to make reasonable trades with them.

 

I thought we had a chance last year but we were doomed by all the injuries. This coming season may be a nice contending surprise for all of us.... I hope.

 

 

^^ Smart dude ^^

[Angrioter]

If they are staying away, I don't think it's for the reasons you list. I don't imagine any GM would avoid dealing with another because they 're afraid of losing. People don't even do that in yahoo leagues - everyone is confident enough to think they can win a trade against anyone. If they have stopped talking to AA it's probably because they don't want to waste time on talks they don't expect to go anywhere.

 

lol Are you sure?

 

I've talked with Omar Minaya, Moises Alou and Stanley Javier and they said "It's easier to negotiate with someone who thinks like you"

[The_DH]

If Dombrowski is letting his dislike for AA or any GM prevent him from possibly getting a better return in a trade, then that's should be at least problematic for Tigers fans.

 

It depends. Maybe they think talking to AA is like getting an annoying sales call from India. I get them weekly for duct cleaning. Don't even listen to them anymore. Maybe same here.

[ElNik2013]

It depends. Maybe they think talking to AA is like getting an annoying sales call from India. I get them weekly for duct cleaning. Don't even listen to them anymore. Maybe same here.

 

It's not like AA has stopped making trades though. He's made several trades in the last year.

[ElNik2013]

If they are staying away, I don't think it's for the reasons you list. I don't imagine any GM would avoid dealing with another because they 're afraid of losing. People don't even do that in yahoo leagues - everyone is confident enough to think they can win a trade against anyone. If they have stopped talking to AA it's probably because they don't want to waste time on talks they don't expect to go anywhere.

 

If anything, GM's would be eager to deal with AA given his last few trades. Forget AA for a second, I can't imagine there wouldn't be 5 or more GM's willing to give Dombrowski a better return than what he got.

[GNick]

http://read.thestar.com/?origref=#!/article/52bf4851ec06913739065626-blue-jays-alex-anthopoulos-on-thin-ice-griffin

 

He is not a good judge of young talent been his Achilles heel.

[Angrioter]

Yeah, obviously it's easier to do business with someone who sees things similarly to the way you see things. That's a bit different though. I can't imagine there are any GMs who are legitimately worried that they'll lose a trade with AA though. People don't tend to make it to the top of their chose field without a healthy self-confidence.

 

 

Moises Alou

"Sometimes we (Leones del Escogido) think that X player is a 6/10; 4 of the remaining 5 GMs think the same about X player, but the GM to which the X player belongs think that the player is 10/10; That's an insult to us"

 

btw "I have a good working relationship with Jays's GM Alex"

[flafson]

It's a guessing game really, only way to maybe find out is if there is a complete meltdown and everyone is telling s*** on everyone else or if he's not in the job anymore.

 

All any one of us can do is cross their fingers and hope for the best.

[connorp]

Another wrinkle in things is how teams view other team's players. Theres prob teams that think either or both of Sancez/Stroman arent going to be qualiy ml..while they may grade another guy higher than consensus says

[Atothe]

Another wrinkle in things is how teams view other team's players. Theres prob teams that think either or both of Sancez/Stroman arent going to be qualiy ml..while they may grade another guy higher than consensus says

 

Thats stupid if they do think, I hope to think that most gms who engage in trade talks with the jays know Stroman is gonna play in the majors and be a contributor. Sanchez is still up in the air but the guy has quality stuff which if their scouts watched one or two of his starts know he'll play in the majors if he gains even average control. I think its more likely that they don't wanna waste time talking to AA if nothing will come of it

[SAAviour]

So griffin gets paid for this? What the f***! AA is on thin ice...Richard says so.

I was expecting a quote from a source or something when I opened that article.

I wish I could speculate and write a story about it and get paid.

What a joke.

[connorp]

Thats stupid if they do think, I hope to think that most gms who engage in trade talks with the jays know Stroman is gonna play in the majors and be a contributor. Sanchez is still up in the air but the guy has quality stuff which if their scouts watched one or two of his starts know he'll play in the majors if he gains even average control. I think its more likely that they don't wanna waste time talking to AA if nothing will come of it

 

Idk. There may be a lot of old school GMs saying he wont cut it as a SP standing 5'9. I really dont know anything on it to have an opinion..but just because everyone can name a xouple guys that did..what about the 50 that may not have.

 

It would be an interesting article to look back and analyze SP in the last 5 or 10 years facing that challenge..and what results were like against normal SP prospects

 

BB blog should do

[Jimcanuck]

After the Dickey trade, I am sure GMs are eager to talk to AA

[Atothe]

Idk. There may be a lot of old school GMs saying he wont cut it as a SP standing 5'9. I really dont know anything on it to have an opinion..but just because everyone can name a xouple guys that did..what about the 50 that may not have.

 

It would be an interesting article to look back and analyze SP in the last 5 or 10 years facing that challenge..and what results were like against normal SP prospects

 

BB blog should do

 

Thats a fair but then there is Sanchez, he's not nearly as finished a product as Stroman but he is the prototypical Power pitcher

[o2cui2i]

If they are staying away, I don't think it's for the reasons you list. I don't imagine any GM would avoid dealing with another because they 're afraid of losing. People don't even do that in yahoo leagues - everyone is confident enough to think they can win a trade against anyone. If they have stopped talking to AA it's probably because they don't want to waste time on talks they don't expect to go anywhere.

 

no one wants to talk to someone who is perceived as intentionally wasting their time. if a GM is always asking too much or never willing to put a deal on the table that he is going to make, other GMs will just stop taking their calls.

 

then you have the fact that many America players have misguided ideas of how things work in Canada.

 

add those 2 together and you get a leper colony who no one will acknowledge. cant attrack FA and no GM wants to deal with us. it's a bright future. lol

[o2cui2i]

Idk. There may be a lot of old school GMs saying he wont cut it as a SP standing 5'9. I really dont know anything on it to have an opinion..but just because everyone can name a xouple guys that did..what about the 50 that may not have.

 

It would be an interesting article to look back and analyze SP in the last 5 or 10 years facing that challenge..and what results were like against normal SP prospects

 

BB blog should do

 

http://sabr.org/research/does-pitcher-s-height-matter

[Frenchsoup]

maybe gms don't want to deal with AA because he demands neil walker for adam f***ing lind. That would piss me off if i was the pirates.

[jays4life19]

maybe gms don't want to deal with AA because he demands neil walker for adam f***ing lind. That would piss me off if i was the pirates.

 

I'd do the same. We have a limited window to compete. Trading Lind doesn't make sense unless we clearly win the trade. Aka Walker.

[Frenchsoup]

k walker is a core piece for the pirates, would you consider lind a core piece? no he's a platooner easily replaceable