Around Baseball 2014

[burlingtonbandit]

I'm guessing they'll overpay for Hanley now, but I'm sure they'd have interest in Reyes. Maybe if they Jays took back Beltran or Gardner to offset the salaries somewhat (preferably Gardner).

 

Why would the Yankees want to trade Gardiner? He is one of their best players and the best when including his contract.

[GeorgiaPeach]

You're not paying for past performance. You're paying for more certainty of future performance, and you're still getting a discounted rate, since it's the arby years. And those youngsters heading into their "prime" ... what prime? Between the 3 of them, they logged about one full season of MLB performance this year. One has shown he's actually trending downward, and oft injured ... the other two are huge question marks.

 

You are paying for current performance, and more certain performance.

 

Winning may not be your concern, but it is for those trying to generate interest in their baseball team.

 

If the Rayspists could generate any revenue whatsoever, they'd be bringing in players with longer track records who also happen to cost more. Being value conscious doesn't always paying as little as possible for possible contribution.

 

I'd much rather have Lawrie, Norris and Sanchez over Donaldson.

[jaysfan2014]

Good to see that the O's resigned Hardy. As a result, it hurts the Yankees.. now they'll have to either significantly overpay for HanRam, or sign a platoon partner for Brendan Ryan. Hurts the Dodgers as well, as it will make it harder and more expensive for them to resign HanRam. The only good options left at SS in free agency are Asdrubal Cabrera (who is more a 2B than a SS), Jed Lowrie (injury-prone and below average defensively) and Stephen Drew.. Yanks might as well start extension talks with Drew now, considering the limited options in free agency.

 

BTW, the O's are also looking to resign Markakis and Cruz, as well. Either they got new money from their deep playoff run, or Chris Davis is heading for a non-tender (most likely), with Pearce/Walker likely to replace him in 2015. Because of Chris Davis being busted for PEDs, it's very likely the O's won't even consider a contract for him.. he made $10.35M this season and isn't worth the money because of his significant regression this season offensively (he was on his way to 200+ Ks before the suspension.) So they might as well use his money and resign Markakis and Cruz.

 

Andrew Miller is still likely headed for free agency, though.. he's going to get overpaid by teams who might use him as a setup man or closer(such as the Tigers).

[jaysfan2014]

I'm guessing they'll overpay for Hanley now, but I'm sure they'd have interest in Reyes. Maybe if they Jays took back Beltran or Gardner to offset the salaries somewhat (preferably Gardner).

 

Jays wouldn't take Beltran at all, especially with his inability to play defense due to injuries and age. Plus, Gardner is being paid $13M/year, and is showing some signs of decline.. speed players do not age well, especially if they get injured.

[jaysfan2014]

Holy s***, really?

 

I thought the Yanks might back up the Brinks truck for him.

 

But you know, they might consider trading for Reyes. I know we have no one to replace him, but if we wanted to shed payroll to get other players, the Yanks might be a partner.

 

No chance. I imagine the Jays want a lot more than what the Yankees have in their system for Reyes.. we'd probably ask for a young SS, which the Yankees don't have.

[glory]

Why would the Yankees want to trade Gardiner? He is one of their best players and the best when including his contract.

 

I don't know if they'd want to, just that I don't think they'd take all of Reyes' salary so the Jays would have to take one back. Gardner plays LF and Alex allegedly wanted Beltran a few years ago so those were names that made sense. Whether the Yankees would do it is another story (I'm sure they'd do Beltran for Reyes but that wouldn't help the Jays in terms of positional versatility).

[jaysblue]

I'd much rather have Lawrie, Norris and Sanchez over Donaldson.

 

Yeah obviously I'd do Lawrie for Donaldson in a heartbeat, though trading Sanchez and Norris on top of that for a player soon to enter his 30's and get expensive isn't the best use of assets. Like you said before we've likely seen Donaldson's peak.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Why would the Yankees want to trade Gardiner? He is one of their best players and the best when including his contract.

 

And he's a Jays killer. I don't have the stats, but I think he's batting a million against us.

[BTS]

Yeah obviously I'd do Lawrie for Donaldson in a heartbeat, though trading Sanchez and Norris on top of that for a player soon to enter his 30's and get expensive isn't the best use of assets. Like you said before we've likely seen Donaldson's peak.

 

But what are we giving up? A reliever, a guy who can't stay on the field enough to put up 2 wins, and a very good pitching prospect. For 4 years of a legit MVP candidate in his prime, that's not too much.

[BTS]

Donaldson isn't even into arbitration yet though and he's not even 29 yet... since when is "will enter his 30s in the next two years" a non-starter?

 

He's an MVP candidate who won't make real money for years, the kind of guy you trade everything for. Lawrie + Sanchez + Norris.

 

If it were 4 years of Stanton and not Donaldson nobody would hesitate. Donaldson is so underrated.

[NorthOf49]

If it were 4 years of Stanton and not Donaldson nobody would hesitate. Donaldson is so underrated.

Donaldson checks off all the boxes that make players underrated: hitter in pitcher's park, great defender but without gold gloves, didn't make majors until mid 20s, not a big average hitter, wasn't an elite prospect, plays in small market, good power hitter yet has never topped 30 HR, 100 RBI or .500 SLG, etc.

 

He's a total stud and the four years mean we're not "mortgaging the future."

[Laika]

Donaldson isn't even into arbitration yet though and he's not even 29 yet... since when is "will enter his 30s in the next two years" a non-starter?

 

He's an MVP candidate who won't make real money for years, the kind of guy you trade everything for. Lawrie + Sanchez + Norris.

 

Disagree.

 

Not in theory, just in the names.

 

Did you guys know that Steamer600 has Lawrie as a top 30 position player? (3.9 wins). Granted, he hasn't exactly demonstrated that health is one of his skills... if health is a skill...

[jays4life19]

What do you guys think Navarro would get in free agency if AA had signed him to a one year contract like how he originally wanted?

[jaysblue]

Donaldson isn't even into arbitration yet though and he's not even 29 yet... since when is "will enter his 30s in the next two years" a non-starter?

 

He's an MVP candidate who won't make real money for years, the kind of guy you trade everything for. Lawrie + Sanchez + Norris.

 

Isn't he arbitration eligible coming up this season? And he will be 29 on Opening Day next season (he was born in December). He'll start getting expensive and he'll be entering his 30's.

[jaysblue]

But what are we giving up? A reliever, a guy who can't stay on the field enough to put up 2 wins, and a very good pitching prospect. For 4 years of a legit MVP candidate in his prime, that's not too much.

 

Sanchez is a reliever? I'd hope the Jays try him out as a starter. The Jays after 2015 won't likely retain Happ and MB, so that's two openings. I doubt the Jays will sign a big FA pitcher, since they are crazy expensive on the open market, so stock piling on as many young cheap arms like Stroman, Hutch, Stroman, Norris etc. is important for this organization moving forward. I know Lawrie hasn't been able to stay healthy, though with his skill set over a full season, he can easily produce a lot of value. I have no problem trading Lawrie for Donaldson obviously, though giving up their other top young arms like Sanchez and Norris on top of that is a lot.

 

C Navarro

1B Encarnacion

2B ?

3B Donaldson

SS Reyes

RF Bautista

CF Gose

LF ????

DH Lind/Mayberry

 

SP Dickey

SP MB

SP Stroman

SP Hutchison

SP Happ

 

Like I said, MB and Happ are gone after 2015. That creates two holes in the rotation. Plus, any injuries to those arms I'm not sure there is much depth afterwards - Nolin, Drabek, Redmond, Graveman etc.

 

How will the Jays make upgrades at second base, in left field and in the rotation moving forward? The main trade chips like Sanchez and Norris are gone. Donaldson after 2015 will keep getting more expensive and likely will be providing slightly less value, the Jays will have holes in their rotation, and other areas as well. Just doesn't make sense.

[jaysblue]

If it were 4 years of Stanton and not Donaldson nobody would hesitate. Donaldson is so underrated.

 

If it were 4 years of Trout, nobody would hesitate as well.

[GD]

If we get Donaldson from OAK, we should pay a little more to get an outfielder from them.

 

If it were 4 years of Trout, nobody would hesitate as well.

 

... Okay, um, he's not THAT underrated.

[G-Snarls]

Holy s***, really?

 

I thought the Yanks might back up the Brinks truck for him.

 

But you know, they might consider trading for Reyes. I know we have no one to replace him, but if we wanted to shed payroll to get other players, the Yanks might be a partner.

 

Yankees will get their next SS from the International FA market

[G-Snarls]

Fixed. (HanRam)

 

f***. That's possible isn't it.

 

Whenever a good free agent that we could really use goes to New York, Boston, or Baltimore, it hurts double.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Given that I like winning, and not just watching young people in a field, I'd prefer Donaldson over Lawrie, Sanchez and Norris.

 

Winning what? The Jays weren't making the WC game or taking the pennant with Donaldson this year.

 

And honestly, how are the Jays going to afford to pay Donaldson. They couldn't do anything financially all year. Hamstrung with ridiculous contracts they traded for, unwilling to take money on, or at best lateral financial moves. And now you're trading young, cost-controlled assets for Donaldson, a declining bat who is gonna get PAID for what he's done and not what he'll do.

[G-Snarls]

Hanley Ramirez, Brett Lawrie and Jose Reyes

 

Who plays where?

[GeorgiaPeach]

Yeah obviously I'd do Lawrie for Donaldson in a heartbeat, though trading Sanchez and Norris on top of that for a player soon to enter his 30's and get expensive isn't the best use of assets. Like you said before we've likely seen Donaldson's peak.

 

Unless the Moogyman is one of those people that thinks everyone can break out at 28 and become the next Edwin or Bautista.

[GeorgiaPeach]

But what are we giving up? A reliever, a guy who can't stay on the field enough to put up 2 wins, and a very good pitching prospect. For 4 years of a legit MVP candidate in his prime, that's not too much.

 

I'd let someone else pay up.

[BlueJayWay]

I gotta say that seems like a pretty nice deal for Baltimore. They're not tied into him for that long either.

 

Gotta say it seems unusual to work out a contract extension during a playoff run. I can't recall that happening much.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Isn't he arbitration eligible coming up this season? And he will be 29 on Opening Day next season (he was born in December). He'll start getting expensive and he'll be entering his 30's.

 

The best time to buy.

[GeorgiaPeach]

f***. That's possible isn't it.

 

Whenever a good free agent that we could really use goes to New York, Boston, or Baltimore, it hurts double.

 

Just think of how much it hurt the Yanks, Sox & Orioles when we picked up Buehrle, Dickey & Reyes.

[GeorgiaPeach]

This reply makes no sense. He had a 6.4 WAR this past season (good for 6th best among positional players in the majors). He has the 3rd highest WAR over the span of 2013-2014 of any player in MLB (behind only Trout and McCutchen). Why would he have to "break out"? Is he supposed to be Superman, in order to justify trading a trending downward, broken down 3B, a reliever and a guy undergoing surgery with a handful of MLB innings, declining velo and one good year in the higher minors?

 

He already broke out. And his bat is declining.

[BTS]

If it were 4 years of Trout, nobody would hesitate as well.

 

The point was that Stanton is not better than Donaldson. Trout is better than Donaldson.

[GeorgiaPeach]

No one is talking about this year. We're talking about next year. Stay focused.

 

I actually like the Jays team with what they have going into 2015 over what they had this year. Moving Lawrie, Norris and Sanchez for JD, doesn't do the team any favours by having a declining asset, getting paid.

 

 

He has 4 more years of arby. Unless he has an epic collapse, he'll be a friggin' bargain in terms of monies paid out to him over those 4 arby years. He'll get paid much less than what he's worth, going forward, during those years.

 

The three players who would be getting paid close to LG min for the next bunch of years is an even bigger bargain. And seeing as we have a FO with a major weakness in building a team using the funds given, and an ownership who believes/spouts off that Toronto is a big market team, but fails to put up a definitive big market payroll, none of this is looking good for the future. The future would be grim.

 

Are you sure you even know who Josh Donaldson is?

 

Yep he plays for the City of citizens you remind me of.

[GeorgiaPeach]

One year is not "declining." He may never match 2013, but he doesn't have to in order to be one of the most valuable players in the majors. And he's only getting arby money.

 

He's beyond the typical peak.

 

No thanks