Jays and Rays discussing a trade involving Encarnacion and Price??

[Olerud363]

I do agree with this sentence but if AA thought he had defensive value, there was a serious misjudging of Bonifacio's skill set. There isn't anything that Bonifacio does that Rajai Davis doesn't do better (unless you count playing terrible 2B). No one could have predicted just how badly swapping out a better defender like Aviles for Bonifacio would have backfired but it's really hard to argue it was a good idea. AA seems to have a strange infatuation with certain rather fringy players (Happ, Bonifacio, Rogers) which can't help but make you question his player valuations. I don't know if you've read Great Expectations but in it, Lott and Davidi describe conversations between Beeston and Anthopoulos where they discussed how important it was to acquire Bonifacio because he's such an exciting, entertaining player. That's not the kind of cold rational that you have been giving for the Bonifacio acquisition. Now of course, Lott and Davidi weren't actually there so maybe the conversation that actually took place and the one the principals described to them aren't the same but it certainly gives you pause. You can always give AA the benefit of the doubt but don't you feel like you have to do that a lot? There is zero indication in Great Expectations that Escobar played an important role in negotiations but there's clear indication that both Mathis and Bonifacio did. If you don't find that alarming then I guess you're just a far different Jays fan than I.

 

In the book AA is hemming and hawwing over the trade. In the end he doesn't want to screw Jeff Mathis over it. To me that says AA was lukewarm on it anyway. Then Beeston is literally schmoozing with his buddies in a Loblaws board meeting, and takes AAs call on a coffee brake and is all like "Track Team!!! Entertainment!!!!'

 

Beeston is probably pissed he has to talk to AA on the coffee break at the Loblaws board meeting (I picture them getting to preview the newest Presidents Choice cookies)... "Crush Mathis! Get the track team! I need some entertainment. And stop bothering me I'm sampling the new cookies!!!".

Edited December 11, 2013 by Olerud363

[KingKat]

In the book AA is hemming and hawwing over the trade. In the end he doesn't want to screw Jeff Mathis over it. To me that says AA was lukewarm on it anyway. Then Beeston is literally schmoozing with his buddies in a Loblaws board meeting, and takes AAs call on a coffee brake and is all like "Track Team!!! Entertainment!!!!'

 

Beeston is probably pissed he has to talk to AA on the coffee break at the Loblaws board meeting (I picture them getting to preview the newest Presidents cookies)... "Crush Mathis! Get the track team! I need some entertainment. And stop bothering me I'm sampling the new cookies!!!".

 

It's definitely a brain trust issue with the Jays. It's not just AA, it's the combined leadership of Beeston and AA. I know a lot of people were hoping Beeston would hire Sandy Alderson to replace himself. Maybe under the tutelage of a noted progressive mind like Alderson, AA would do quite well but that's neither here nor there. We can only judge the results of AA's work under Beeston not his hypothetical work under a different president. There are no real indications that AA and Beest are at odds which each other anyways. In order to improve this team, Beest should definitely be the first to gobut that doesn't mean AA should get a pass.

[Olerud363]

In my mind much of it goes back to Cito Gaston. Gaston seems to be blackballed by everybody except Beeston. Gillick hated him, the players don't like him, he made a lot poor moves. Never got a sniff of a job from anybody but Beeston. And then claimed racissm when at the same time other minority managers (Dusty Baker, Felibe Alou) were being given multiple jobs.

 

Bobcat has basically said Gaston is an awful man who turned 100 win teams into 95 win teams and got lucky in the playoffs. Any other president would of fired Gaston after the 2009 disaster... where the team collapsed into mutiny. No experienced GM or up and coming Gm candidate would of taken the job without being given full authority to resolve that situation by firing Gaston if needed.

 

The only choice?? Beeston had to hire himself as President, and a young guy he knew and could control as GM.

[G-Snarls]

... As BTS always says ...

 

LOL

 

He has a growing base of fanboys it seems

[HERPDERP]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 2m Just saw David Price's agent, Bo McKinnis, in lobby. Asked if Price would consider extension with #Mariners. Said no. MORE

 

 

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m Asked McKinnis if Price would consider extensions with other teams. Said yes. Asked which clubs. He declined to answer.

 

 

BUUUUURN. Guess that +$200m signing of Cano isn't encouraging anyone else to hop on the Mariner bandwagon.

[Ehjays]

That just shows Price doesn't want Mariners

[Angrioter]

David Price is a joke

"Trust me I don't want sympathy...I got beat tonight...so be it..I'll bounce back...3x ALLSTAR...2 time player choice...runner up cy...AND CY"

[NorthOf49]

M's would still acquire Price without possibility of extension, that's what they did with Cliff Lee and Lee only had one year left at the time.

[TRM]

I completely forgot Cliff Lee played for the Mariners.

[Angrioter]

M's would still acquire Price without possibility of extension, that's what they did with Cliff Lee and Lee only had one year left at the time.

 

 

When Lee trade, the twitter didn't exist lol. Jack Z don't want to look like an idiot.

[TRM]

I wish I had fanboys

[NorthOf49]

I completely forgot Cliff Lee played for the Mariners.

2010 was a forgettable season for them, but Lee was anything but: 3.7 WAR in 103.2 innings pitched (2.16 FIP) before getting shipped to Texas for Justin Smoak.

 

It seems like the prospect price for top starters has gone way up in recent years. You just can't trade a few B prospects for an ace as teams did in 2007-2010.

[G-Snarls]

....Okay? Because I quote something that he says often in response to the Marlins trade, which is true? It wouldn't have mattered who said it.

 

I know. And I like you. And him. It just looked funny to see a p post starting with "like BTS always says". Just looked funny.

 

In a brainy / papa smurf sort of way.

[mitchf]

You really don't see why people are concerned here given that A) the rumoured trade would be disastrous, AA is quite candidly after pitching, C) AA has been absolutely destroyed via trade recently, and D) Andrew Friedman?

It's not happening and you know it.

[Abomination]

Bad luck doesn't make the trade be okay. You have to take that into account too, all and all it's a bad trade.

 

He was very clearly referring to the trade not being terrible at the time it was made, not in hindsight.

[KingKat]

When Lee trade, the twitter didn't exist lol. Jack Z don't want to look like an idiot.

 

Jack Z got the better of that trade. Amaro got garbage for Lee. Trade for Halladay for prospects and turn around and trade Lee for lesser prospects. Talk about counter-productive.

[G-Snarls]

I wish I had fanboys

 

Fangirls > Fanboys

[GD]

I wish I had fanboys

 

You'll always have me :')

 

(for which I heartily apologize)

[Angrioter]

bump

[Deadpool]

Why in the everloving f*** would you necromance this thread?

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

Just for shits and giggles would there be a better 2-3-4 in baseball than

 

Myers

Encarnacion

Longoria

 

???

 

Yeah I think we'd regret facing THAT 18 times a year

 

Cabrera, Bautista, Encarnacion seems far better

[G-Snarls]

Cabrera, Bautista, Encarnacion seems far better

 

Yes it sure does now

 

Cabrera better than we'd even hoped, and Bautista is full on beast again

Edited May 21, 2014 by G-Snarls

[G-Snarls]

Also, terrible thread bump by ang

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

I wasn't saying he isn't an asset. I'm saying we could've moved him at his peak instead of watching something diminish in value on a team going nowhere. And anyone who thought he would've continued on his torrid out of nowhere pace is silly.

 

Jays are in contention and Bautista is a fringe MVP candidate on a cheap contract. Trading him would have ruined this season, especially if it was for Profar ( King's suggestion ).

Edited May 21, 2014 by Cooler Heads Prevail

[shortstop]

EE is part of the culture of this team that AA has and should be building around...I believe some time ago he mentioned could see EE/JB with jays into their late 30's, like Ortiz with the Red Sox...when we think the jays, we think of JB, EE...these guys want to win for this team, this city, especially since this is the team where it clicked for them & they got a real shot...

 

assuming they remain competitive, you continue to keep and build around the core of JB, EE, BL, hopefully Melk sticks around, maybe JR presuming he doesn't decline too much (I still think we have yet to see the best of JR), some of the late inning guys in the pen including CJ...

[BigCecil]

EE is part of the culture of this team that AA has and should be building around...I believe some time ago he mentioned could see EE/JB with jays into their late 30's, like Ortiz with the Red Sox...when we think the jays, we think of JB, EE...these guys want to win for this team, this city, especially since this is the team where it clicked for them & they got a real shot...

 

assuming they remain competitive, you continue to keep and build around the core of JB, EE, BL, hopefully Melk sticks around, maybe JR presuming he doesn't decline too much (I still think we have yet to see the best of JR), some of the late inning guys in the pen including CJ...

 

This teams window is now - EE and JB are undermarket deals and resigning them again to UM deals wont happen unless rapid decline through 2016 which means we wouldn't want them anyway likely. Reyes and MB huge salaries will factor here if they aren't moved and replaced. No way you could or would sign both Melky and Colby. We have a closer in CJ who also needs resigning with a great closing ratio, but he has spent lots of time on the DL and lives on the edges.

Edited May 21, 2014 by BigCecil

[z3r0s]

I think we are all fairly confident that this won't be the year it is all torn down (unless we go on an EPIC losing streak), and I'm fine with that.

 

If we miss the playoffs this year, we can give it one more go and if it doesn't go well, you can deal both EE and JB at next years deadline while they still have a year and a bit of control.

[BigCecil]

EE is part of the culture of this team that AA has and should be building around...I believe some time ago he mentioned could see EE/JB with jays into their late 30's, like Ortiz with the Red Sox...when we think the jays, we think of JB, EE...these guys want to win for this team, this city, especially since this is the team where it clicked for them & they got a real shot...

 

assuming they remain competitive, you continue to keep and build around the core of JB, EE, BL, hopefully Melk sticks around, maybe JR presuming he doesn't decline too much (I still think we have yet to see the best of JR), some of the late inning guys in the pen including CJ...

 

We have team options on EE and JB - what are the rules on picking them up so we could move them at 2015 deadline, if need be, still under contract through 2016?

 

I think we are all fairly confident that this won't be the year it is all torn down (unless we go on an EPIC losing streak), and I'm fine with that.

 

If we miss the playoffs this year, we can give it one more go and if it doesn't go well, you can deal both EE and JB at next years deadline while they still have a year and a bit of control.

[Anemic0ffense]

Friedman couldn't destroy AA here. Must hurt the fanboys so much.

 

Lol.

[z3r0s]

We have team options on EE and JB - what are the rules on picking them up so we could move them at 2015 deadline, if need be, still under contract through 2016?

 

The team options can (and would) be picked up by the teams trading for them. You trade the contract, options and all.