Can Ryan Goins stick?

[gruber92]

BTW, i didn't call you a full blown retarded squirrel. I used the term "squirrel" in a nickname type manner,as i'm not referring you as a small mental rodent.

[GD]

Can everyone who's reading this thread agree that Cooler Heads Prevail is one full blown retarded squirrel?

 

This is my new insult of choice

 

Many people are going to be called retarded squirrels today

[theblujay]

"While he'd ideally like to add a 2nd baseman to create more competition & depth, AA said he's comfortable with a Goins-Izturis combo at 2B." -AA

 

Let Goins prove you all wrong

[Boxcar]

"While he'd ideally like to add a 2nd baseman to create more competition & depth, AA said he's comfortable with a Goins-Izturis combo at 2B." -AA

 

Let Goins prove you all wrong

 

Sounds familiar....

 

"No! Its impossible for JPA to improve!

/s

 

I agree"

 

"Don't bother arguing with them. They have it set in stone to hate JPA, its no use."

 

 

 

"For some reason you refuse to think that JPA can improve even the slightest bit.

 

His offense is what it is I think, but I think he'll improve marginally.

 

His defense looks much better this year than the last two years and I think it will continue."

 

Maybe you won't look like a goddamn retard this time! But chances are you will.

[GD]

I love this thread

[flafson]

The best thread in here for sure.

[G-Snarls]

I love this thread

 

101 pages baby. One hundred and one pages. Boo yah.

[Abomination]

101 pages baby. One hundred and one pages. Boo yah.

 

Meh, you can change the page settings in your profile. 2012 posts baby!

[John_Havok]

101 pages baby. One hundred and one pages. Boo yah.

 

the blame for this thread lies squarely on the mods for not closing after the first post.

[flafson]

Why would they close it? It's a good thread.

We should make a poll, what will become of Goins in the future.

1) DFA

2) Organization Guy

3) MLB Average

4) MLB Above Average

5) All Star

[John_Havok]

Anyone who votes for 4 or 5 should be banned for lack of knowledge.

 

hell... even 3 is pushing it for a guy who hits lighter than johnny mac and only plays 2b.

[Jays]

Anyone who votes for 4 or 5 should be banned for lack of knowledge.

 

I've got the tar and feathers.

[theblujay]

Sounds familiar....

 

"No! Its impossible for JPA to improve!

/s

 

I agree"

 

"Don't bother arguing with them. They have it set in stone to hate JPA, its no use."

 

 

 

"For some reason you refuse to think that JPA can improve even the slightest bit.

 

His offense is what it is I think, but I think he'll improve marginally.

 

His defense looks much better this year than the last two years and I think it will continue."

 

Maybe you won't look like a goddamn retard this time! But chances are you will.

 

Not the same situation at all, but it fits your narrative. Goins has played less than half a season and is a defense-first guy. We really need good defense around the infield because I think it will have a noticeable effect on our pitchers.

 

BTW, not sure what's wrong with having some hope.

[theblujay]

hell... even 3 is pushing it for a guy who hits lighter than johnny mac and only plays 2b.

 

???

[theblujay]

He's a natural shortstop

That's my point

[Caper]

I love this thread

 

The best thread in here for sure.

 

That's my point

 

 

Thank you. It's my baby.

[GD]

Thank you. It's my baby.

 

We owe you eternally.

[theblujay]

Man if Goins can put up 1-2 WAR with regular playing time this thread will be hilarious. Of course if he doesn't the guys will be out to get the optimists.

[theblujay]

Steamer has him at 67 wRC+. Around 70 sound reasonable. The defense is where they are way off.

[theblujay]

I was thinking about this today and wonder if you guys know anything about it.

 

Let's say you have a SS and 2B with equal WAR, one set with all offense, s***** D and the other with amazing D and awful bat. Would having the pairing with the amazing D be more beneficial to the club because of their effect on pitchers, especially ground ball pitchers.

 

I know that WAR takes into account their defensive value, but I think that's pretty much just based on how difficult the play is. I guess I'm asking if the defensive metrics accurately correlate the defense with the effect of preventing runs.

[KingKat]

I was thinking about this today and wonder if you guys know anything about it.

 

Let's say you have a SS and 2B with equal WAR, one set with all offense, s***** D and the other with amazing D and awful bat. Would having the pairing with the amazing D be more beneficial to the club because of their effect on pitchers, especially ground ball pitchers.

 

I know that WAR takes into account their defensive value, but I think that's pretty much just based on how difficult the play is. I guess I'm asking if the defensive metrics accurately correlate the defense with the effect of preventing runs.

 

Yes. It's literally based on an estimate of how many runs the fielder prevented (or caused if he's a negative value fielder).

[theblujay]

Yes. It's literally based on an estimate of how many runs the fielder prevented (or caused if he's a negative value fielder).

 

So this is very accurate?

 

I just feel like from watching I've realized how much defense in the infield can completely change an inning or a start for a pitcher and I wonder if the stats can effectively show the value of a great defender over and a subpar defender. Just think of all the trouble caused by Boni playing 2B compared to having someone like Johnny Mac

[KingKat]

So this is very accurate?

 

I just feel like from watching I've realized how much defense in the infield can completely change an inning or a start for a pitcher and I wonder if the stats can effectively show the value of a great defender over and a subpar defender. Just think of all the trouble caused by Boni playing 2B compared to having someone like Johnny Mac

.

The accuracy of the runs prevented calculations is one of the most contentious things in sabermetrics.

[Jays]

So this is very accurate?

 

I just feel like from watching I've realized how much defense in the infield can completely change an inning or a start for a pitcher and I wonder if the stats can effectively show the value of a great defender over and a subpar defender. Just think of all the trouble caused by Boni playing 2B compared to having someone like Johnny Mac

 

An inning can also change from a strikeout/out in a crucial situation. There's also value in having a guy who can start/continue a rally.

[Abomination]

So this is very accurate?

 

I just feel like from watching I've realized how much defense in the infield can completely change an inning or a start for a pitcher and I wonder if the stats can effectively show the value of a great defender over and a subpar defender. Just think of all the trouble caused by Boni playing 2B compared to having someone like Johnny Mac

 

There are definitely some issues with it imo (shifts being one of the bigger ones), but we don't yet have the data collection to necessarily fix the issues. It's a huge improvement over straight scouting.

[theblujay]

Oliver projections has Goins at 1.1 WAR

[theblujay]

AA has been saying this since the WS ended?! He also said JPA could be back with a catching coach how'd that work out.

 

Goins is good at defense and not a meathead like JPA

[Boxcar]

Man if Goins can put up 1-2 WAR with regular playing time this thread will be hilarious. Of course if he doesn't the guys will be out to get the optimists.

 

So if he does, you will be out to get "them" but if he doesn't, people like yourself are untouchable?

 

Also, how is being realistic a bad thing? You should try taking your head out of your ass once in awhile.

[theblujay]

So if he does, you will be out to get "them" but if he doesn't, people like yourself are untouchable?

 

Also, how is being realistic a bad thing? You should try taking your head out of your ass once in awhile.

 

It seems like most of you guys want Goins to fail. All I'm saying is there have been a lot of absolutes thrown around in this thread about Goins' futility, while some of us have tried to be optimistic and leave the possibility open that he could be better than expected.

[gruber92]

Unless AA lands an impact 2B, you can count on an Izturis / Goins combo at 2B. I think AA would rather roll with the AAS of $3M with Izturis and hope he bounces back to his career .270 / .331 numbers than sign Infante (career .279 / .319) who has pretty much identical numbers , but will probably get $6-8M per next year.

 

I just hope the old AA is back and told old man Beeston to GFH. The Lincoln for Kratz / Rasmussen deal and Navarro signing was a good start.

 

I'm optimistic Izturis will bounce back offensively, and Goins can be our late inning defensive replacement specialist. The defense up the middle has upgraded massively with the additions of Navarro/Kratz with Goins at 2B when defending a late inning lead.