Pitching Stat

[GD]

Are you going to omit the part about defense and baserunning?

 

The f*** do those matter? Detroit made the playoffs bro. That's all that matters.

[GD]

Another day in the life of King

 

This needs to be a reality show

[JSFIP]

Another day in the life of King

 

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/slow-lol-zoom.gif

[GD]

lol

 

am I wrong or did he just steal your GIF? ._.

 

That's like rule #1 of the internet, no stealing GIFs

[GD]

My favourite part of the "debate" is that they both had a 166 wRC+.

 

Hah, somehow I never noticed this. But y'know, Miggy's a vetrin and his team made the playoffs and TWTW

[GD]

He definitely stole it, he was making fun of me in the other thread because I only have one gif or something and I'm uncreative

 

That was a nice thread.

 

I'm gonna bookmark this one, lol.

[JSFIP]

Weren't you the guy who hated that gif?

 

Nah I was just posting it because you love it so much

[JSFIP]

am I wrong or did he just steal your GIF? ._.

 

That's like rule #1 of the internet, no stealing GIFs

 

Pretty sure rule #1 is no posting false information about trades

[DuckDuckGose]

Come at me brah. Fight me at the designated message board battleground

 

Yonge and Bloor at the crack of midnight?

[GD]

If you have two identical offensive players, base-running disaster and 3B butcher is always better than the gazelle with elite CF defense. Always. Just as the sportswriters.

 

Exactly! People who disagree need to get out of their mothers' basement. I bet they haven't even played baseball.

 

This really doesn't work for me. I'm not driving 5 hours to settle my e-battles. We need an Ottawa board battleground for me to crack some skull.

 

Rideau canal in winter, on the ice. Hockey style. Loser is pulled into the depths of the river, under the ice.

[Save Dtieb]

Cabrera = more hits, more doubles, more home runs, more rbi's, better average, better slugging, better ops, less SO.

Trout = more runs, more triples, more steals, better obp, more walks.

 

8 - 5 at my count. 8-6 if you count dWar. Still, Cabrera wins.

[DuckDuckGose]

They drain the canal, it'd be pretty hard to drown. I've gone through a few times and hit concrete an inch down each time. Parliament Hill, right at the base of the Peace Tower.

[DuckDuckGose]

The guy chirps is because he is the only one critically thinking and then decides the MVP by the Yahoo H2H matchup.

[GD]

Cabrera = more hits, more doubles, more home runs, more rbi's, better average, better slugging, better ops, less SO.

Trout = more runs, more triples, more steals, better obp, more walks.

 

8 - 5 at my count. 8-6 if you count dWar. Still, Cabrera wins.

 

no.

 

They drain the canal, it'd be pretty hard to drown. I've gone through a few times and hit concrete an inch down each time. Parliament Hill, right at the base of the Peace Tower.

 

Oh wow, I didn't know they drain it. Never been to the canal.

[havok24]

It doesn't work that way.

 

Mitch Williams and Harold Reynolds beg to differ.

[havok24]

I'm still waiting on an e-mail from you.

 

Oh s*** I totally forgot bro. I'll probably send you something tomorrow morning. I'll remind myself.

[GD]

This was a fun thread.

[GD]

You missed the Arencibia quits twitter thread, that was crazy more fun than this one

 

I know, I really regret missing that one. It was a fun read but I can only imagine how it was to post in real time.

[havok24]

Hopefully we can work something out. I moved Locke for a pick to clear roster space, lol.

 

Yeah I kind of want to get this done as well. Hopefully by tomorrow afternoon we have ourselves a done deal.

[havok24]

Hopefully we can work something out. I moved Locke for a pick to clear roster space, lol.

 

Sent you an email.

[Abomination]

So I am watching the game today, and thought about how people hate win/loss records and era because it doesn't really reflect how well a pitcher is pitching, blah blah blah.

 

So here is the stat I came up with.

 

H + ER + BB *9 / IP Pretty easy right? But I haven't seen it anywhere.

 

Somehow I lucked out and missed this thread the other day, but I would like to say that I encourage people to come up with ideas for new stats, etc. If you think you found something that could work, compare it to other stats and advanced metrics, find it's strengths and weaknesses, etc. Think about why it succeeds or fails in certain areas. You may learn something in the process, or you may stumble across something interesting in which case everyone learns something.

[Dick_Pole]

why shouldn't pitchers be evaluated on what they control, and not what other individuals control?

 

I would contend the pitcher exhibits a lot more control on the game than what xFIP allows. Say the SP knows that his 2B and 1B have poor range. He pitches down and away to a right handed batter and he pulls a grounder through the right side of his infield. I would say that's stupid pitching. xFIP would say that's unlucky or not fully within his control and must be filtered out.

 

I think DIPS were invented by agents to explain why their mediocre SP client isn't all that mediocre. Where else in life can your performance be "normalized" to weed out the effects of "things you don't control"? Let's take my above example and apply it to the real world. My work laptop is low on RAM, but I'm going to download a bunch of moves, games and other s*** on it anyways. Now it's really slow and effects my ability to get my work done on time. Who is going to get the blame? Me of course, even if I yap that I need a better laptop.

 

I can completely understand the use of xFIP as a predictor tool. DIPS may have been useful for handicappers and such in the early days of their existence, but now that they are so prevalent they've lost their use. What good is using xFIP as a predictor tool if your bookie is doing the same to make the lines? What good is it in your fantasy pool if everyone else uses it? If everyone uses DIPS then the only thing you have to gain an advantage on your opponents is by going back to evaluating "intangibles" to try to gain an edge.

 

The other thing I dislike about DIPS is that they encourage Brandon Morrow circa 2010 type of pitching. I don't want my pitcher going out there and trying to strike everyone out so he can blow up or burn himself out by the 4th, 5th or 6th inning. I have more respect for the SP who can go out there and keep his team in the game with a 5 or 6 K/9IP rate and pitch 230 innings a year by using his defense efficiently and conserving his pitches.

[GD]

I think DIPS were invented by agents to explain why their mediocre SP client isn't all that mediocre.

 

This isn't actually true.

 

Also, Andrew Cashner has a 6.09 K/9 and a 3.71 FIP, you don't need to strike guys out if you can limit your walks and homers.

[Dick_Pole]

This isn't actually true.

 

Also, Andrew Cashner has a 6.09 K/9 and a 3.71 FIP, you don't need to strike guys out if you can limit your walks and homers.

 

That was supposed to be a sarcastic point...didn't come off 100% that way though especially with the odd turn this thread has taken.

 

True, but K's are a component nonetheless so cherry picking one guy isn't the fairest thing to do imo. There's an argument out there that all this advanced stat chasing by pitchers and hitters are stimulating the higher K rates we've seen lately. I don't necessarily agree to that argument 100%, but it's out there.

[GD]

That was supposed to be a sarcastic point...didn't come off 100% that way though especially with the odd turn this thread has taken.

 

True, but K's are a component nonetheless so cherry picking one guy isn't the fairest thing to do imo. There's an argument out there that all this advanced stat chasing by pitchers and hitters are stimulating the higher K rates we've seen lately. I don't necessarily agree to that argument 100%, but it's out there.

 

Oh, well I'm not great at comprehending sarcasm early in the morning lol.

 

Oh it was just an example. It's a fact, you don't need to strike out guys to have good FIPs. It'll be better if you strike guys out, but it can be good.

[Dick_Pole]

Oh, well I'm not great at comprehending sarcasm early in the morning lol.

 

Oh it was just an example. It's a fact, you don't need to strike out guys to have good FIPs. It'll be better if you strike guys out, but it can be good.

 

True, but it still is a component nonetheless.

 

What about something like infield pop ups? In theory, those should be automatic outs by anyone who wears a glove on an MLB field regardless of the situation or infield positioning and could be considered as "defensively independent" as K's, so why shouldn't they be in the calculation?

[Save Dtieb]

Baseball and certain substances mix well.

 

By the way, I guarantee MVP's are determined by this; Popular Stat Results + Team Win/Loss % * Games Played / Sportswriters thoughts on Sabres.

[Save Dtieb]

And Cabrera still wins.

[Angrioter]

ER?

H (h = h2 = h3 = hr)?

 

No way bro.

[theblujay]

I would contend the pitcher exhibits a lot more control on the game than what xFIP allows. Say the SP knows that his 2B and 1B have poor range. He pitches down and away to a right handed batter and he pulls a grounder through the right side of his infield. I would say that's stupid pitching. xFIP would say that's unlucky or not fully within his control and must be filtered out.

 

I think DIPS were invented by agents to explain why their mediocre SP client isn't all that mediocre. Where else in life can your performance be "normalized" to weed out the effects of "things you don't control"? Let's take my above example and apply it to the real world. My work laptop is low on RAM, but I'm going to download a bunch of moves, games and other s*** on it anyways. Now it's really slow and effects my ability to get my work done on time. Who is going to get the blame? Me of course, even if I yap that I need a better laptop.

 

I can completely understand the use of xFIP as a predictor tool. DIPS may have been useful for handicappers and such in the early days of their existence, but now that they are so prevalent they've lost their use. What good is using xFIP as a predictor tool if your bookie is doing the same to make the lines? What good is it in your fantasy pool if everyone else uses it? If everyone uses DIPS then the only thing you have to gain an advantage on your opponents is by going back to evaluating "intangibles" to try to gain an edge.

 

The other thing I dislike about DIPS is that they encourage Brandon Morrow circa 2010 type of pitching. I don't want my pitcher going out there and trying to strike everyone out so he can blow up or burn himself out by the 4th, 5th or 6th inning. I have more respect for the SP who can go out there and keep his team in the game with a 5 or 6 K/9IP rate and pitch 230 innings a year by using his defense efficiently and conserving his pitches.

 

+10000000 especially the first paragraph. It's what I was saying over and over.